EUREKA! Gentlemen, start your junk boxes...

[wm3798]

Okay, so I'm spending the afternoon soldering together yard throats, and whining to myself that I'll need to wait to finish everything up until I can afford to get the Peco switch machines I need to actuate everything.

Then, just as I'm pulling up the piece of plywood I've marked up to cut the holes, it occurs to me...

One way thru staging doesn't need powered turnouts on the exit end!  As such, instead of using the Peco longs with motors in the back, I can just use some Atlas custom lines, and let the points float!  This is a MAJOR consideration, since I'm currently long on time and short on money...  It means that not only can I "re-allocate" existing assets, it means the only thing I now need to complete the staging yard to be fully functional is ONE left hand c80 Customline long turnout (I think it's a #8?).

I can now pull the switch machines from the outbound throat on the east staging yard, and rebuild that with Atlas "floaters", rebuild the inbound throat on the east side with Peco longs (which will be a bit of a challenge, but I think I can figure it out), then the 6 machines I need to power the turnouts in the stub end storage yard on the west end suddenly become available!!!


So now, instead of worrying about finding $80 for more switch machines, I can beg you guys for the one turnout I need! ;D 

And if that doesn't work out, I can slip up to Hobby Town and drop $10 or so on a turnout...

The only downside to all of this, is now I have to completely undo everything I worked on all day!  C'est la vie!

So, who's got a spare turnout laying around?  I can Paypal a fair and reasonable price for used, plus postage. 

Any thoughts?
Lee

[Iain]

Lee, if I can find my junk box of C80 track, I'll send you a couple for free.

[asciibaron]

put some springs on them points...

[TiVoPrince]

put some springs on them points...

Defeating
the value of the floating points?  The Drive-out nature means the points need to float free as not to derail trains...

[John]

lee .. i got some laying around .. pick up friday

[wm3798]

I think I have it worked out with two rights and a left, but I think it would work better with two lefts and a right...

Thanks again for your support...  In the meantime, I'll be working out the wiring diagram, and designing the master control panel for the dispatch desk.

I'm debating springing the points in the event that someone enters staging in the wrong direction...  I dunno.  I'm definitely going to do a spring switch at the top of the helix...Hmm, which would negate the need for springs down below... 

Lee

[kiwi_al]

Okay, so I'm spending the afternoon soldering together yard throats, and whining to myself that I'll need to wait to finish everything up until I can afford to get the Peco switch machines I need to actuate everything.

Then, just as I'm pulling up the piece of plywood I've marked up to cut the holes, it occurs to me...

One way thru staging doesn't need powered turnouts on the exit end!  As such, instead of using the Peco longs with motors in the back, I can just use some Atlas custom lines, and let the points float!  This is a MAJOR consideration, since I'm currently long on time and short on money...  It means that not only can I "re-allocate" existing assets, it means the only thing I now need to complete the staging yard to be fully functional is ONE left hand c80 Customline long turnout (I think it's a #8?).

I can now pull the switch machines from the outbound throat on the east staging yard, and rebuild that with Atlas "floaters", rebuild the inbound throat on the east side with Peco longs (which will be a bit of a challenge, but I think I can figure it out), then the 6 machines I need to power the turnouts in the stub end storage yard on the west end suddenly become available!!!


So now, instead of worrying about finding $80 for more switch machines, I can beg you guys for the one turnout I need! ;D 

And if that doesn't work out, I can slip up to Hobby Town and drop $10 or so on a turnout...

The only downside to all of this, is now I have to completely undo everything I worked on all day!  C'est la vie!

So, who's got a spare turnout laying around?  I can Paypal a fair and reasonable price for used, plus postage. 

Any thoughts?
Lee

Hmmm ......  how are you applying the toilet roll to your yard young fella? ;D ;D

[Dave V]

So you've COMPLETELY ruled out the need for a backup move, like retrieving part of an unintentionally uncoupled train?

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Problems I see with this:
1. No back ups at all as prviously mentioned.
2. Shorts when the lead engine "pushes" the points
3. Those shorts would mean no DCC without rebuilding the yard
4. Floating point get caught on things like trip pins, throwing the switch and causing a derailment.
5. Why not just use bike brake cableing and let one switch machine throw both turnouts?
6. No stopped trains on the switch, they could back up due to coupler slack and derail.

[wcfn100]

Problems I see with this:

2. Shorts when the lead engine "pushes" the points

Not a problem with a modified turnout which should be done anyway for any DCC operation.

Jason

[asciibaron]

put some springs on them points...

Defeating
the value of the floating points?  The Drive-out nature means the points need to float free as not to derail trains...

floating points are asking for trouble - a light spring with them set for the diverging route would make his life easier

[asciibaron]

So you've COMPLETELY ruled out the need for a backup move, like retrieving part of an unintentionally uncoupled train?

painting himself into a corner he is.

[davefoxx]

Lee,

If you want a spring switch, then why not use a real spring?  Do you remember the Model Railroader layout construction series on the HO scale Seaboard Central?  In that series, they used a small piece of piano wire to create the spring.  Essentially, it works the same way as the Peco turnouts with the wire spring that holds the points.  Costs mere pennies per turnout, which sounds like it's right up your alley.  The advantage is that you won't have points flopping around and shorts won't be a problem, even with your DCC system (except that you probably won't be able to power the frogs).  Backup moves would be no problem.  I used this on my first N scale layout several years ago to control Atlas Code 55 switches.

Hope this helps,
Dave Foxx

[wm3798]

I'm using Atlas customlines for the floaters.  These do not pose a problem with shorts on DCC because the points and frog are insulated.  My experience with these turnouts is once they are nudged to one side, they pretty much stay nudged.  I did some back and forth tests with a couple of cars and an engine, and there were no immediate signs of danger.  Everything will be thoroughly tested, so if I find any serious repeating problems, I will deal with them.

The throat in question is right in front of the dispatcher's desk, so it's not a problem getting to it on the off chance that there would be a problem.  There's also a 6 track stub yard that diverges just past the float-throat, so in an emergency, I could back the front half of the train into there, then go back with just the engines to retrieve any errant cars.

The other factor to consider is that if the cars are properly maintained issues should be few and far between.  And Yoda, here's the deal...  "Do or not do... there is no try..."

In other news, I took a look at how the east staging throat will look with the long turnouts, and it works out that I can use one of the existing holes for the first turnout, and there's room for surface mounts for the other two.  Given the discussion here, I may now go ahead and leave the outbound throat there alone, and salvage some switch machines from other quarters for the stub tracks in west staging.

Lee
 

[SkipGear]

I'll second the spring switch suggestions....



Simple to do with a piece of .010 Phosphor bronze wire soldered to the rail. It doesn't take much tension at all but it takes some. C80 #6's are bad about picking the points as is, they need tension against the rail for a backing move. The problem is, with a backing move, you better not have passed the next switch or you won't be able to get back in if the other turnouts are also spring switches. If it is going to be hidden staging, you won't know you lost anything until it is too late more than likely.