a cloned Chopper

[up1950s]

The Chopper got cloned with Chop It from Micro Mark


http://www.micromark.com/CHOP-IT,9547.html?ns_md=Email&ns_sc=Marketing&ns_cn=W80&utm_source=Marketing&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=W80

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Yeah, Micro Mark has been ripping off a bunch of NWSL's tools lately. I believe Hiroe posted a thread about it a while ago.

It's pretty scummy.

[Zox]

I've been viewing the Micro-Mark catalog with a jaundiced eye ever since I started finding a lot of instances like this:

Micro-Mark, Mini Miter/Cut-off Saw, "List price $189.95, our price $139.95":
http://www.micromark.com/MINI-MITER-and-CUT-OFF-SAW,6466.html

Harbor Freight Tools, Bench Top Cut-off Saw, $27.99:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42307

[bigford]

i have this one

Harbor Freight Tools, Bench Top Cut-off Saw, $27.99:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42307

i just wish it could cut larger stuff :-[

[Chris333]

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27849

[up1950s]

I would think it is a expired copyright , and thats why it is so close in design to the NWSL version . Isn't it 20 years and then the free for all can begin ?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

So this used to bug me, but here's the way I see it now.

NWSL had their time, they knew that the clock was ticking on copyrights / patents, and if they've expired, well then, they should've been planning for it. If not, then they're not a smart business.

Yes, it sucks for them, but the hobby business isn't a charity.

[CoalPorter]

I would think it is a expired copyright , and thats why it is so close in design to the NWSL version . Isn't it 20 years and then the free for all can begin ?

I can't see a photo from the link you posted, but if it is the chopper i am thinking of, then it is not really a NSWL product anyway.  NWSL had the (rather small) version of the chopper with the metal table/base, but they were just buying that and reselling it. It was not thier design or build.  >

[up1950s]

I would think it is a expired copyright , and thats why it is so close in design to the NWSL version . Isn't it 20 years and then the free for all can begin ?

I can't see a photo from the link you posted, but if it is the chopper i am thinking of, then it is not really a NSWL product anyway.  NWSL had the (rather small) version of the chopper with the metal table/base, but they were just buying that and reselling it. It was not thier design or build.  >

[Chris333]

This is what I've had forever:
http://www.trainsetsonly.com/Merchant2/images/fullsized/FS053/lg053-494.jpg

[DKS]

This is what I've had forever:
http://www.trainsetsonly.com/Merchant2/images/fullsized/FS053/lg053-494.jpg

Ditto. That and the TrueSander.

[up1950s]

Me 2 on the NWSL chopper , though there has been a thin gap that had developed on the straight edge allowing thin stock to slide underneath , I have been happy with it . I was in no way trying to say go with the copy cat brand , just a bit surprised as the how much the same the construction if it is . Almost like they couldn't expend an ounce on energy or a buck to make improvements . Just about cloned it brainlessly . A brass plate insert under the chopping part would help reduce the valley the razor makes over time . Thats 2 improvements that would be worth an increase in price and get me to buy another chopper .

[Hiroe]

Not to bring up an old topic, but this just came up on one of the other forums i frequent, and when i searched here to see if it had been set straight, i did not find it.

A couple of questions were brought up and I'd like to answer them here.
We're the new owners of NWSL and when we bought the company we bought
all of it. There was talk of MM wanting just the tools but the founder
said no, all or nothing. MM first cloned our Sensi-Press and Rivter
earlier this year, and now they've gone much further.

Illegal? Nope. As some of you probably know, getting legal protection is
expensive and time consuming. We'd thought/hoped that the founder had
some protection for these tools, but he never got around to it. Also,
with our legal system, anyone with the cash and determination can get
around almost anything, and that brings me to point number two. The
majority of manufacturers in this hobby are small. Our stories are all
similar in that we had an inspiration or an idea and decided to do
something about it, which on its own sounds all well and good. However,
from a business standpoint, we're very exposed. Let's say we did have
some legal protection on this stuff: Anyone want to venture a guess as
to what it would cost to start, much less maintain, a legal battle? The
MTH vs. Lionel fight ran into the millions.

Me? I am one man and I have one vote. At the polls I get one ballot; in
the hobby I have my hobby dollar. And that's how I respond. There are
several tools in the MM catalog I would like to have but it is my choice
not to do business with them, ever again. It's not just us and NWSL, in
this last catalog they expanded the text on their brazenly-named Same
Stuff and pointed out that it's the exact same formula as Tenax 7R and
Plastweld. Only cheaper. And there's the fun part about being a pirate:
Why go through the hours or research and R&D? Why bother funding all
those prototypes and other pesky development costs? Why go through the
expense of a marketing campaign to get noticed? Much easier to cherry
pick on the back end.

You get the exact same vote. Wanna save a couple of bucks? That's your
call. However, I'll thank you not to post to this list and whine about
how nobody is coming out with new products that you would like to see
and use in your hobby.

Dave Rygmyr
NorthWest Short Line (www.nwsl.com)
Oso Publishing & Evergreen Hill Designs (www.osorail.com)

Dave Rygmyr from the new NWSL has repeatedly been fast to bash MM, *WITHOUT* telling the entire story.

Note how he doesn't mention the fact that when MM offered the original NWSL tools, there were many months where NWSL themselves were not producing them, before finally deciding to sell the whole works. During that time span, MM was still listing the NWSL version in their catalog, despite being unable to actually stock any. For awhile it was looking like NWSL would fold outright without a buyer; and it wasn't fair to expect MM to purchase the entire line, just to get a few tools. So what did they do? What any smart company would do, they produced their own. Then when the new owners of NWSL were ready, MM already had their own versions. So NWSL turned around and started slandering MM. Because it's far easier to lie and blame someone else than it is to acknowledge their own role in the outcome.

So many people get all butthurt at MM over this lie, and swear "Never to do business with such thieves". Well, does that same moral apply when doing business with Liars?

Dave Rygmyr is a Liar, and i don't do business with liars. If he wants my hobby dollar, he needs to step up and take responsibility for his dishonesty, and publicly apologize to Micro-Mark for his libelous words.

Besides, whatever happened to building a better mousetrap? Competition is a good thing, it fosters innovation and genius. The people that make better products will sell more than those that produce inferior ones. It's one of the founding principles of a market-driven society.

Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise may as well be a communist.

end soapbox.
--Drew

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Heh, yeah, at first (as I think I posted here), I was on NWSL's side, but no longer.

There's this thing, it's called a patent. It's what MTL used to protect their couplers. It expires after a set amount of time. It's nobody's fault but your own if you have a patent expiring and DON'T plan for what happens afterwards.

MM is completely in their rights here, and, in fact, are probably doing the market a service.

[Chris333]

Forget where I read it, but when NWSL was for sale somehow it was told/thought they weren't going to keep selling tools and that is when MM started working on theirs. Then the new NWSL owners kept selling them and now...