PRR/Conrail Juniata Division Engineering Report

[mcjaco]

That's a little more tasty.

[packers#1]

I still prefer the railfanning setup, but that new yard layout would really work; I'm digging how the town fits into the curve of the mainline; looks like what would have really happened in the real world

[crrcoal]

I agree. But then again, it's Dave's layout. If there's still interest in the version with the engine facilities and new smaller yard, I must note there were some serious flaws in the plan (such as the need for locos to use the mainline to access the yard ). So here's a version with the major gaffes corrected. As a minor bonus, in the process of making the revisions, some acreage was gained for the town and industries. (For giggles I also included the connection to the yard lead that allows turning locos and cars--highlighted in red.)

This is pretty sweet!! I might be able to make this work but it would be a point to point layout. (The JD part would not exist). I'd need a scenic divider to separate the blue staging yard from the front yard. 

Do you have a parts list compiled by chance, would it be possible to annotate what turnouts are what on the plan? Overall dimensions would be?

Thank you DKS!

[Rich_S]

I agree, it's ultimately Dave's layout and his decision. I like this trackplan, as long as the blue track is hidden behind a low backdrop.

[wcfn100]

Having the run-around and switching track between the mains and the station is a bit awkward for me.  I would see if there's a way to move the station to the mains and the run-around behind.


Jason

[DKS]

Having the run-around and switching track between the mains and the station is a bit awkward for me.  I would see if there's a way to move the station to the mains and the run-around behind.

I agree. But moving the runaround away from the main enough to accommodate the station makes for wild curves and eats up a lot of town real estate. About the only viable spot is the corner of the layout--which is still awkward. Not many options here.

[Dave V]

The thing for me is, though, I'm not a yard nut.  Yes, it's fun now and then to make up a train, but I don't see myself being like Ed with respect to really putting a yard through its paces.  It's easy to get overwhelmed trying to account for every operational possibility in a small yard.  Looking at Lee's old Hagerstown yard, I see more than twice the real estate and a real sense of purpose.  After all, look at how much more operating potential Lee's WM had versus the JD.  It made sense to have an operational yard feeding an operational layout.

The JD on the other had spends the vast majority of its time as my railfanning time machine and nothing more.  And that's okay, because most of the time that's all I want to do with it.  When I get the itch to op, I can do a little local work.

From this perspective the right yard for the JD is a nice, long run-through staging yard from which I can queue representative samples of the PRR's 1950s traffic.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

The thing for me is, though, I'm not a yard nut.  Yes, it's fun now and then to make up a train, but I don't see myself being like Ed with respect to really putting a yard through its paces.  It's easy to get overwhelmed trying to account for every operational possibility in a small yard.  Looking at Lee's old Hagerstown yard, I see more than twice the real estate and a real sense of purpose.  After all, look at how much more operating potential Lee's WM had versus the JD.  It made sense to have an operational yard feeding an operational layout.

The JD on the other had spends the vast majority of its time as my railfanning time machine and nothing more.  And that's okay, because most of the time that's all I want to do with it.  When I get the itch to op, I can do a little local work.

From this perspective the right yard for the JD is a nice, long run-through staging yard from which I can queue representative samples of the PRR's 1950s traffic.

Here here!

I think you've really got your head around this here. The additional options seem like a good exercise that really helped distill down what you wanted, and it looks like you've got it figured out.

Now get building Doc Waffle.

[DKS]

Do you have a parts list compiled by chance, would it be possible to annotate what turnouts are what on the plan? Overall dimensions would be?

Dimensions: the larger portion is a standard 3-foot HCD (36" x 80") and the smaller leg is an 18" HCD.

Track required includes:

Atlas Code 55 2050. Left turnout#5, 5.98".   1
Atlas Code 55 2051. Right turnout#5, 5.98".   3
Atlas Code 55 2052. Left turnout#7, 5.98".   12
Atlas Code 55 2053. Right turnout#7, 5.98".   10
Atlas Code 55 2058. Left curved turnout 22.5º, 21.25"/15".   1
Kato Unitrack 20000. Straight 9.76".   20
Kato Unitrack 20010. Straight 7.32".   3
Kato Unitrack 20020. Straight 4.88".   2
Kato Unitrack 20030. Straight 2.52".   1
Kato Unitrack 20040. Straight 2.44".   3
Kato Unitrack 20070. Straight 1.79".   3
Kato Unitrack 20071. Straight 1.14".   2
Kato Unitrack 20140. Curve radius 15", angle 30º   9
Kato Unitrack 20160. Curve radius 18.94", angle 15º   6
Kato Unitrack 20220. Left turnout 4.96". (remote)   4
Kato Unitrack 20221. Right turnout 4.96". (remote)   2

~80 feet of flex

There are only four Code 55 #5's (noted on the drawing) and the rest are #7s, although most of them can be swapped out for the other. There is one curved switch which should be easy to spot.

[MichaelWinicki]

How I would operate this layout would be something like:

1. The 5-track staging yard:
A. Have 2 of the tracks populated with trains that will terminate in the yard.  One traversing the layout in each direction.  An important key is timing trains in/out of staging so that one track is kept nearly empty, EXCEPT at the beginning and ending of the ops session.  This will allow the operator to traverse the layout as many times as they wish before they terminate their train.   
B. Have 2 of the tracks for through-freights that terminate back in staging.
C. Have 1 of the tracks for a passenger train or maybe a coal drag that terminates in staging.

2. The yard would be the origin for two locals that would work the original JD and then return to the yard.

3. A yard "goat" could take another local out of the yard and switch out the industries in the new portion of layout.


Here's a potential list of trains:
Train 1- Train leaves staging, traverse the layout (select a number of times) and ends up at the yard where it's broken down.
Train 2- A local that is made up in the yard and heads to the JD section to do some switching.  Once completed it returns to the yard to be broken down.
Train 3- A through-freight that leaves staging, traverses the layout (select a number of times) and ends up back in staging.
Train 4- Train originates in the yard, traverses the layout and ends up in staging.
Train 5- Yard goes creates local that it leads and switches out the industries near the yard.
Train 6- A coal drag that leaves staging, traverses the layout and ends up back in staging.
Train 7- Train leaves staging, traverse the layout (select a number of times) and ends up at the yard where it's broken down.
Train 8- A local that is made up in the yard and heads to the JD section to do some switching.  Once completed it returns to the yard to be broken down.
Train 9- A through-freight that leaves staging, traverses the layout (select a number of times) and ends up back in staging.
Train 10- Train originates in the yard, traverses the layout and ends up in staging.

That's a decent number of trains given the size of the layout.  And the number could be increased if you had easy access to the staging during the ops session in order to hand-swap cars/trains.   A couple of the interchanges found on the layout could be deemed "high-traffic" that need to be switched out twice a day, which of course would entail another local needed out of the yard.

[Dave V]

See, that right there is why I'm probably not the right guy for that plan.

Some of you can look at a trackplan the way I look at a higher order partial differential equation and just know the answer (or set of possible solutions).  A yard looks to me like that equation probably looks to the layman.  It may as well be Chinese.

Enola's flaws are a physical manifestation of my ignorance.

[Rich_S]

Some of you can look at a trackplan the way I look at a higher order partial differential equation...

Uncle, Uncle, please stop you're making my head hurt Please step away from the replaceable parameters and get a firm hold on a hand held throttle as fast as possible   

[MichaelWinicki]

Even without the yard, the same 10 trains could be run during an ops session.

You would simply have to swap out the first local train to the JD section (upon its return to staging) for the second local to the JD section.

[wm3798]

Dave.  Don't fear the ops possibilities.  Embrace them. 

In my opinion, a successful layout has a little staging, a workable yard, some main line running preferably with a continuous running option... (Martini Time Express, I call it), and a little local work to give it all some play value.  The plan shown immediately above, and Michael's analysis of the operation, is perfect.  Reduce the main line to single track with a couple of long sidings, and you have even more operating interest.

The thing to keep in mind regarding yards is that they are not for storage of trains... including the staging tracks...  The staging tracks represent destinations, just like the various industrial sidings on the layout are destinations.  The active yard is where you sort the cars to send them to their destinations, whether that's "on stage" at an industry, or "off stage" to a staging track.

I hope to have space some day to build something just like this... small enough to focus on detail and relatively easy to maintain, yet flexible enough to portray my favorite types of operation in a practical, if not dramatic way.

Lee

[chicken45]

Dave.  Don't fear the ops possibilities.  Embrace them. 

In my opinion, a successful layout has a little staging, a workable yard, some main line running preferably with a continuous running option... (Martini Time Express, I call it), and a little local work to give it all some play value.  The plan shown immediately above, and Michael's analysis of the operation, is perfect.  Reduce the main line to single track with a couple of long sidings, and you have even more operating interest.

The thing to keep in mind regarding yards is that they are not for storage of trains... including the staging tracks...  The staging tracks represent destinations, just like the various industrial sidings on the layout are destinations.  The active yard is where you sort the cars to send them to their destinations, whether that's "on stage" at an industry, or "off stage" to a staging track.



Lee

If we end up planting roots in Baltimore, I know who I'm calling!