True Line Trains 50' Paper Box car

[Puddington]

Robb: I don't have any hard figures myself but an LHS owner I know very well confirmed to me that the figure he mentioned in the rsponse was about right for true cost, in his experience.

If it were for a fully assembled and packaged car with an underframe and MT trucks, then that $6.14US unit cost would be better... but it's just the shell.

I don't think that's reasonable......but I wish it were so... ;D

[Kisatchie]

Somehow I don't understand why this company is getting a free pass. They make a mistake, and they charge to correct it?

I'd love to see the outrage if General Motors put defective brakes on a car, then charged to fix them.

I'm so glad I'm not into buying model railroad equipment anymore.

[Ntrainz1]

Will the shell work with an Atlas underframe ($1.00) and Atlas trucks ($4.85)? Would this cure the ride height problem?

Bob.

[Puddington]

Will the shell work with an Atlas underframe ($1.00) and Atlas trucks ($4.85)? Would this cure the ride height problem?

Bob.

I have tried, without any success the following:

Atlas 50'
Athearn 50'
Fox valley 50'
Micro Trains 50'
Life Like 50'
early MDC 50'

All are too wide by at least 1/32".... not a lot but you'd have a lot of filing to make em fit. Length seems to work except the Atlas which is a wee bit too long.

A newer MDC frame (from a later day BC rail 50') was clsoer - some moderate filing of the metal bottom would allow it to fit.

I guess they really made their own... narrower; fitting the molded end ladders and much thinner.

Too bad; it would have been nice if you could transplant them.....

[Puddington]

Somehow I don't understand why this company is getting a free pass. They make a mistake, and they charge to correct it?

I'd love to see the outrage if General Motors put defective brakes on a car, then charged to fix them.

I'm so glad I'm not into buying model railroad equipment anymore.

I'm not sure they are getting a free pass; I, and many others on other sites beat them up some.... if you are referring to people being happy with their response then I'd submit that that is a refreshing change to some other mfg's lack of response to perceived errors.... that's my guess anyway. Everyone is human and make errors; and with regard to auto mfg's, I have been in the position to have "recalls" and found myself having the recall fixed but getting a $ 500.00 bill for "related, but non recall issues"...... call it what you will; but GM got their $ on that recall.... and obviously spent them on mgmt bonuses... as they are broke today  

Everyone's going to react to TLT's annoucement in a different fashion; yours is one I completely understand !

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I am guessing that any additional cost over a run of the mill boxcar would be to cover air mail charges.

[Denver Road Doug]

Somehow I don't understand why this company is getting a free pass. They make a mistake, and they charge to correct it?

I'd love to see the outrage if General Motors put defective brakes on a car, then charged to fix them.

I'm so glad I'm not into buying model railroad equipment anymore.

I think you are seeing the power of communication at work.

I don't think they're getting "a free pass"...more like a "stay of execution".   Most manufacturers (a) wouldn't respond at all, and (b) certainly wouldn't fix the issue, free or otherwise.  If we were lucky they would fix ensuing production runs.

I'm not keen on the idea of a $25 boxcar anyway, and didn't have any ordered.  They did seem to be--in theory--a high quality model with unprecedented detail.  I haven't seen one up close to know for sure.  My guess is they probably missed their target MSRP by a few dollars, which has made this situtation worse for them.

The reality is, almost every release from every manufacturer has major errors, many as bad or worse than these paper cars.  But they're not $25 street price.  One thing I would probably call BS on regarding the statement from TLT is the general "we didn't realize" tone.  Any Joe Businessboy fresh out of college knows that if you charge a price that is a full 60% more than any previous similar product ever released you WILL be held accountable for flaws.  But like I said, the communication is invaluable these days, even if it is a little flawed.  The price for the replacement shells is a compromise, something like "we won't completely ignore you and we'll admit/correct our mistakes if you'll help us out just this once."  You have to think they won't make these same mistakes again, and if they do it will be suicide for the $25 boxcar.

There...  :

[Kisatchie]

BTW, I'm not sure what alternate universe you live in, but automotive manufacturers "get away" with defective components and inferior products all the time.

There's no reason to be insulting.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

More strange Canadian National finds:
Looking through my photo collection and Fallen Flags, the vast majority of the CN newsprint cars that match the TLT bodystyle do, in fact have "Canadian Natiional" in english only! So the only problem with the paint on the new run is the car number.

Man, I can see why the TLT graphics department was confused. So to wrap it up:
400600-400999 Canadian/Canadien Noodle matches or is very close to TLT flush door body style
401000-401499 Canadian/Canadien Noodle flush door, notched still, body does not match TLT body
401500-401999 Canadian National Noodle flush door, matches TLT body style with flush doors... most cars do not have "Canadien" markings
404000-404399 Canadian National Noodle with some Canadien National as well, matches TLT body style with ribbed doors

[Robbman]

More strange Canadian National finds:
Looking through my photo collection and Fallen Flags, the vast majority of the CN newsprint cars that match the TLT bodystyle do, in fact have "Canadian Natiional" in english only!

Can you positively confirm it's on both sides?

[Chulvis]

Personally I don't feel that you can compare GM to True Line Trains on any level. Just not the same playing field. However, TLT promised us a prototype model like we had never before seen in N Scale and they charged a premium price for them and then delivered a pile of crap. Some of us, myself included, purchased these items sight unseen with the trust that the product would be what was promised. That was not the case in some of their cars.

So, I don't actually see why anyone who has paid good money, and a lot of it, should have to pay one cent more to get what they were promised and paid for. I'm sorry, but at some point model train manufacturers have to take the high road and make good on their promises. These cars were in the production stage for a very long time and to have them released with these kinds of blaring errors is just not right. They had more than enough time to get the details right and they simply dropped the ball and now they want you to share in the expense of their failure. I say screw that. I think Kisatchie is right on with his assessment of the situation.

Send them copies of your sales receipts and demand what you paid for. I think that is fair.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

More strange Canadian National finds:
Looking through my photo collection and Fallen Flags, the vast majority of the CN newsprint cars that match the TLT bodystyle do, in fact have "Canadian Natiional" in english only!

Can you positively confirm it's on both sides?

I am still collecting photos and info, but 95% of the series of cars mentioned show a "Canadian" spelling... if it were mixed the ratio would have to be higher. I'll try and compile a car-bycar list of cars when I have time.

[Denver Road Doug]

Personally I don't feel that you can compare GM to True Line Trains on any level. Just not the same playing field. However, TLT promised us a prototype model like we had never before seen in N Scale and they charged a premium price for them and then delivered a pile of crap. Some of us, myself included, purchased these items sight unseen with the trust that the product would be what was promised. That was not the case in some of their cars.

So, I don't actually see why anyone who has paid good money, and a lot of it, should have to pay one cent more to get what they were promised and paid for. I'm sorry, but at some point model train manufacturers have to take the high road and make good on their promises. These cars were in the production stage for a very long time and to have them released with these kinds of blaring errors is just not right. They had more than enough time to get the details right and they simply dropped the ball and now they want you to share in the expense of their failure. I say screw that. I think Kisatchie is right on with his assessment of the situation.

Send them copies of your sales receipts and demand what you paid for. I think that is fair.

Chuck, I could copy/paste your post for every manufacturer in our hobby at some point in time.  (actually to be fair I'm having a little trouble finding an example for Atlas, for the record)  The number of manufacturers that acknowledge their mistakes is in the single digits.  The number that will fix a decorating or tooling mistake for FREE?  Atlas, plus Intermountain did ONCE with their F-unit that I'm aware of.  So, one and a half.   

And I can give you a laundry list of cars that I would LOVE to be able to wave $6 at and have them fixed.

Having said all that, you have a good idea....push back!  It's all about negotiation.   

[Robbman]

To clarify, can you positively confirm it through photos of BOTH sides of the same car (in the same scheme) that the spelling is the same, or are you assuming it is becuase the photos you have of only one side of the car are all the same spelling?


Looking through the 27 (25 different car numbers) Fallen Flags photos of the 401500 - 419999 series cars, 11 have the -en spelling on the side... 2 of which are in the web scheme (www.cn.ca)...





The visible end in both photos has no brake wheel, so these are indeed the different sides of the same car.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Do you know if these are repaints or the origonal paint jobs?
I had about 20 photos I took over the years of the cars in question and only 2 or 3 had the French lettering.