True Line Trains 50' Paper Box car

[ljudice]

The fact is that it was not a mistake, it was a wardrobe malfunction.

[lock4244]

The fact is that it was not a mistake, it was a wardrobe malfunction.

Nah, wardrobe mistakes are far more amusing...

[Puddington]

The fact is that it was not a mistake, it was a wardrobe malfunction.

I'm rippin that off.... that's way to funny...........!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[cv_acr]

So they got the bi-lingual cars right in HO but not in N. Must have been a "oh well, n scalers won't notice anyways" thing. It's one thing to do something half-assed, but they're not charging for a half-assed job  >

I'm not sure how much direct involvement that Hobbycraft had with the original runs of the Life-Like Proto1000 cars, but those cars are now in Walthers hands so TLT isn't involved with the Walthers cars.

[cv_acr]

That said, most of the first, original Life-Like runs were correct, so if Hobbycraft did have a hand in those, you'd figure they should get the N scale cars correct, since it would likely be based on some common research.

[Puddington]

That said, most of the first, original Life-Like runs were correct, so if Hobbycraft did have a hand in those, you'd figure they should get the N scale cars correct, since it would likely be based on some common research.

If we look as objectively as possible at the errors that have been reported on these cars there are a couple of distinct "sources" that come to mind....

1. The door rail error would seem to me to be a mechancial error made in the development of the mold master - I am sure that they wrok from some kind of CAD drawing - the error can be explained by looking at the position of the upper rail vs. the panels - it is simply shifted one panel to the left. I can see how this could happen in a CAD environment; yes, it should have been caught by QC but I'm guessing that numerous people looked at pre production samples; they were taken to shows so "John Q Public" got a chance to see em'; hobby shop owners saw em and I'm guessing everyone missed it......(shows the power of a photograph and the internet train crowd)

2. The printing errors are of two types; a/ Mis-positioned graphics (al la the CP rail cars) - I'm willing to believe that someone at the factory used the wrong die or file for the "B" side - sloppy mistake...... b/ Wrong numbers or wrong cars chosen for series made..... this is a research issue - I'm guessing that either they did poor research or didn't listen to the research results they were given. I have heard tale that they were offered what I consider some expert advice and that it either wasn't heeded or wasn't received..... can't say for sure; as I "wasn't there"....and that's the issue - if they don't talk, we can only assume and that's something I wouldn't want my clients ever doing.

If I was the mfg right now; I'd be trying to get out ahead and talking with my clients about the mistake and reassuring them that I'd do better next time......( think Kato and GS 4, think Rapido and their IC colour issue) otherwise the problem gets larger....

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I wish they would adress the "Canadien" issue. They could make it easy and issue a decal overlay color-matched to the car's paint. Its not a perfect solution, but its cheap and easy.

[Puddington]

"Why do I do dumb things"....? 

I tried to "fix" a TLT 50'..... why dummy, why ? They don't look that bad, and unless you search for the door error, you can't see it.... nevertheless, I had to try..... dope !



I'm not doing that again.... I'm sure a better modeler could do a way better job but frankly; it isn't worth it in my mind.... Just get the damn things dirty; fix the livery errors, that's easy and off ya go.... (might wanna lower it, but I'll live with it)

Dummy !

[Mark5]

They don't look bad (needs lowering though).

But for that price they shouldn't be playing dumb.


There's nothing to see here, move along!

[jsoflo]

I just received my CV and CP cars. They are nice. But a couple gripes: the ride height is atrocious, they look like toys when placed next to ANY other freight car. They ride so high and are weighted that they tend to flop to one side and ride at a skewed angle. The next gripe is that as I have tried to lower them (low pro wheels and filing the bolster pin area down) I have met with additional issues: these come with MT couplers and the coupler pins screw in. To begin with one of them is stripped and will be a pain to get out. The next issue is that lowering will require body mounted couplers and there is not a great deal of space for them here.

I know I am new here, but some of you know me from other forums, I am not a complainer by any definition of the word and rarely if ever complain about a product, but at roughly $20+ per car this is unacceptable.

So, now that I own them, anyone got any good ideas for lowering these?

my best,
Jan

[bbussey]

Lower the car to the height it should be and put low-pros in the trucks.  I prefer FVM but MTLs will do.  Next, remove areas of the floor above the trucks if necessary to clear the flanges.

Regarding the couplers, first try 2004 knuckles in 1015 coupler boxes and ream out the hole to take flat head 00-90 screws rather than the standard pan head MTL screws.  If the coupler box doesn't clear the outside axle, then notch out the floor so the 1015 coupler box slides in and glue a section cut from styrene sheet to the top of the floor to screw the coupler into.  What I did with the FVM Milwaukee ribbed boxcar is cut back the top lip of the 1015 coupler box so that I wouldn't have to cut notches in the ends to clear the coupler.

I haven't picked one of these up yet because of all the problems with this car, but I might pick up on of the CN cars, make it bilingual as intended and lower the car to where it is supposed to be.  If the above suggestions don't work, I'll keep playing with it until I find a workable solution.  But I suspect the method I used on the Milwaukee car will be successful.

[Puddington]

True Line Trains President Darren Altbaum has written a post response to the issues brought up about the 50' cars. It is posted on the Yahoo Canadian Model Trains group, as are people's various responses but here's the text of his announcement....

It has come to my attention that our N scale newsprint cars had some
problems. I'd like to address those problems head-on.

First of all, let me give you some background information to how we work at
Hobbycraft:
I am not a train expert--my personal interests are in Star Wars, Lego and
Guitars. But every day I'm learning more and more about trains as we develop the
TLT brand. Having Jason and Dan (Rapido Trains) next door is a big help and they are giving me a
crash course on things like the differences between 567C and 251 engines. OK -
Jason just gave that example to me and I have no idea what the !@$#% he's
talking about. They however keep threatening to take me railfanning if I don't
learn.
Because I'm not a train expert, I need to rely on experts to give us the
correct information. We showed our N scale cars to people up and down the
country over several months and NOBODY caught any of the problems we're now
hearing about. We also gave the cars to experts that we use to help us design
and proof the lettering and other features and again, nobody found these
problems on any of the samples.
I've learned that I can't rely on the experts any longer, and Jason and Dan
have offered to help me check all of our samples myself in future, comparing
with prototype photos. If you ever have good prototype photos of a car/loco we
are doing, please email them to me so I can ensure we get the details right.
In the meantime, I'd like to solve the problems on the first run of N scale
newsprint cars. We are tooling new sides with the correct door tracks. We're
going to make complete, assembled and decorated sides for all of the car numbers
in our first run available to everyone at our landed cost. That is $6.87
Canadian per fully assembled, decorated shell. I will post lettering diagrams to
CanModelTrains for you guys to check before we make the shells. Even if you
didn't buy our first run, you can still order the replacement shells.
I would love to offer the shells for free, but money is tight in this
economy and I simply can't afford to. We'll cover most of the shipping costs
and charge a flat rate of $5 shipping to anyone in North America, no matter how
many shells you order.
If you are interested, please contact me off list and I'll give you the full
details. I'll take reservations for the new shells until the end of July, and
then we'll make as many replacements as we get reservations for, aiming to
deliver them in October.

Thanks everyone for your patience.

Darren Altbaum
President
Hobbycraft Canada

I am happy to see a written response. I will leave it up to others to comment on content as I have most likely said too much about this topic for some peoples tastes.

[SirTainly]

Wow, while it dismays me that important people in the hobby don't start with an interest or knowledge of trains, I very much admire Darren's honesty here. While I would have liked them to get things right first time, the proposed solution is pretty fair. Good luck to TLT with their next project, and lets hope that with the help of the combined knowledge on the forums, they'll get it right!

Simon

Pud, has anyone passed on the corrections needed for the BCOL cars on the list?

[ljudice]

Pretty fair response, I'd say! 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I agree. I think that's actually a really GREAT response!