GHQ Northern Pacific W-5 Mikado!

[Cajonpassfan]

Andrew, that is one good looking model. Wow!
Regards, Otto K.

[sirenwerks]

So that's 5

I'd be in for 2.

[wazzou]

If I was western I'd be NP all the way. 

On a side note. How exacty are pewter parts made? Can't they be spun and poured on a as needed basis? What am I missing.

I would sure expect that to be the case. 

I model a branch of the NP in the late 60's. 
I have a W3 kit and the KATO Mikado to convert, because it was my favorite of the NP Mikes and they did see branchline and yard service near the end of their use. 
It was NP W3 #1776 used on the Casey Jones Excursion trains near the end of Steam on the NP.  I have photos of the train in the town in which I live.  (taken by my Uncle, prior to my birth) 
The W5 was the most modern of NP's 2-8-2's and were assigned to the mainline.

I may get one just because.

[sirenwerks]

I imagine there'll be some folks on the Yahoo! NP list that will be interested.

[mmagliaro]

Okay, so it is pretty clear that the interest in this engine just does not seem to be there.  4 or 5 or 7 engines isn't going to cut it to get a kit produced.

On to an important question... for NP sharpies.

I have reviewed the simple loco drawings the the NPRHA has their website.  They are the line drawings that have many of the key
measurements marked, but they are not to scale.  I have also looked at some photos of HO brass models of the W-3 and W-5.

It looks to me like those W-3 and W-5 boilers and cabs are identical, and that the only difference is the location of some applicances, the walkways, and the compressors mounted on the smokebox front for the W-5.   The other difference is that the W-5 tender is
a little longer behind the coal bunker.

Does anybody have other drawings or information that can confirm this?    I am surprised because I always thougth the W-5 boiler
was bigger and beefier, but it now appears that is just an illusion.

[sirenwerks]

Okay, so it is pretty clear that the interest in this engine just does not seem to be there.  4 or 5 or 7 engines isn't going to cut it to get a kit produced.

Because Railwire is the only place N scale modelling Northern Pacific fans hang out?  Maybe all the UP fans who get the Challengers and Big Boys will buy RTR W5s just to support the manufacturers?   

[mmagliaro]

Because Railwire is the only place N scale modelling Northern Pacific fans hang out?  Maybe all the UP fans who get the Challengers and Big Boys will buy RTR W5s just to support the manufacturers?   

No, but this exact same engine and suggested project has come up many times over the past 4 years,  Andrew first showed that
model on the old Atlas forum, Trainboard, and Railwire, and while lots of people thought it was a beautiful model, not many
were ever interested in owning one.  I just thought I'd ask one more time.   Even 20-30 would be stretching it.   The PRR L1s kit,
in the follow-up run, had a production run of 300 kits and not enough of them sold to encourage GHQ to ever make any more.

Now... about that W-3 to W-5 comparison... anybody???

[PGE_Modeller]

- snip -

Now... about that W-3 to W-5 comparison... anybody???

Max,

I am certainly no NP expert - in fact, I know very little about NP locomotives.  However, I took a look at the diagrams on the NPRHA site.  While the drawings are certainly not what one would consider "scale" drawings, there are enough dimensions quoted to make some comparisons.

Looking at the W-3A and the W-5 diagrams, I would agree with your comment that the boilers are the same - both have an outside smokebox diameter of 86 7/8" and inside boiler diameters of 83 5/8" (1st course) and 96" (3rd course).  Thickness of boiler plates and lagging would add at least 4" to these as outside diameters.

The dimensions of the running gear appear to be identical except for the rear driver-to-trailing truck distance: 9'-8" for the W-3A and 10'-8" for the W-5.  The overall length of the engine frame, however, is the same, 49'-6 1/2" tip of pilot to engine-tender buffer.

The length of the cab on the W-5 is 6" longer than on the W-3A and the rear wall of the cab is 6" further back with relation to the rear driver (i.e. the front wall of the cab is in the same place on both classes).  The cab roof length is the same at 11'-10" but the rear overhang on the W-5 is 6" less (30" on the W-5 vs. 36" on the W-3A).

Visually, the main differences seem to be: smokebox mounted air compressors on the W-5, various detail items, and a Delta trailing truck on the W-5 vs. an inside bearing truck on the W-3A.

Cheers,

[mmagliaro]

Greg,
I very much appreciate your analysis.  I used those same two diagrams and observed the same things that you
noted in your write-up.  That's what really led me down this path of thinking that a W-5 could in fact be very easily
made from the W-3 kit and that there may have never actually been any "W-5" at all.  It could have just been
a W-3 with changed details as you noted.

But I'm glad somebody else took the time to examine those drawings, so I know I'm not nuts!  THANK YOU.

[Philip H]

Greg,
I very much appreciate your analysis.  I used those same two diagrams and observed the same things that you
noted in your write-up.  That's what really led me down this path of thinking that a W-5 could in fact be very easily
made from the W-3 kit and that there may have never actually been any "W-5" at all.  It could have just been
a W-3 with changed details as you noted.

But I'm glad somebody else took the time to examine those drawings, so I know I'm not nuts!  THANK YOU.

Now Max, agreement between analyses of two steam heads says NOTHING RE the "nuttiness" of the analysts.

[badlandnp]

Being kind of an NP steam nut, if I remember correctly the W-5 order spec'd out identical to the W-3 with mostly superflous external differences which max noted among others. The NP was almost always a very consevative buyer and when they had a good thing just kept with it.

It would be nice to get one or two of these kits form GHQ, I have 3 of the W-3 kits one of which is mostly done. Had an oops and burned up my loksound decoder! Dang it all for them gremlins!

[PGE_Modeller]

 - snip -

I'm glad somebody else took the time to examine those drawings, so I know I'm not nuts!  THANK YOU.

You're welcome, Max.  I note that the last sentence of my previous post - which I don't seem to be able to edit - should also have listed the longer cab on the W-5 as a visual distinction between the two classes.

Cheers,

[peteski]

You're welcome, Max.  I note that the last sentence of my previous post - which I don't seem to be able to edit ...

Unfortunately, see https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=30771.0 and https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=30919.0

 

[mmagliaro]

The W-3B and W-3D drawings I have, which I assume were slightly later versions of the W-3, show the cab as being 106"
long, exactly the same as the W-5.  All the drawings show the cab roof as being
11' 10" in length.    While the W-3B shows a rear cab roof overhang of 30" (as opposed to 36" on the
W-5), the W-3D drawing shows no measurement at all for that overhang.

I would bet that by the time the later W-3 were being made, they had cabs that were identical
to the W-5 that came out after them.  6" in N Scale is .0375".  While we can see
things that size in N (think about looking at a piece of .030" thick styrene) I doubt anybody
would ever notice this.

So... the W-5 now goes on my "short list" of engines to make.  I have my current 4-6-2 project and
some repair jobs to do, so next year sometime.  But my W-3 kit has been patiently sitting in its
box for a few years.  It will wait.

[wazzou]

I'm really looking forward to that build Max.  I hope that you are able to post updates of it's construction also.
I've been a little intimidated to start mine.  I have zero prior experience with N Scale Steam.