Best Of Yard Layouts

[davefoxx]

Ed,

I like it, too.  It has all of the major elements that I would want in a yard.  One thing to consider is swapping the locations of the turnouts to the A/D tracks and the servicing lead.  That would extend the length of the A/D tracks.  By the way, I really like the diamond-shaped yard with all similar length tracks.  Hopefully, these tracks can be made approximately the same length as Lee's passing sidings (any longer might be a waste).  Great job!

Lee,
 
I wouldn't lose sleep over this yard differing from the prototype.  Otherwise, we'd have to build and operate a hump yard!    No thanks.

When you put the layout into RTS, don't forget the new turnouts that are available from Atlas (e.g., curved turnouts), if necessary.  Also, I know that you prefer to use #7s in the yard, but if that jams it up too much, don't hesitate to consider #5s.  First of all, those are less severe than some of the Code 80 switches that you've got in the existing temporary yard, and #5s very well in the yard on my layout (s-curves and all )

Dave

[Dave V]

Don't forget an MOW track to store your MT aluminum-colored troop sleeper camp cars.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Do you even need a track for those? I thought they just went up on cribbing (an added bonus, since you don't have to change the wheelsets!)

[wm3798]

[Sadly the link for this diagram is no longer active ]

There you go... First draft.  Have at it.
Lee

[Dave V]

http://www.wildcardgraphics.biz/media/Hagerstown%20Draft%20Plan.pdf

There you go... First draft.  Have at it.
Lee

I like it!  I've been getting a tutorial from Ed on yard ops...  Very helpful.

I like the run-through tracks to the rear wall.  Well done.

[asciibaron]

The Arrival / Departure Tracks (green). I've put in 3, that would probably be fine. 4 would be outstanding, but we currently get by with 2. Trains would either pull in here entirely, or just back blocks to be worked in there. It's accessible from either direction from the main, and the drill tracks. Ideally, these tracks would be as long as your staging tracks, so an entire train can originate or terminate there. However, we could live if they're not (by doubling up... they even have to do that in Enola). I think I've drawn them rather short here.

Lee - what is your "typical" train length - how long is your longest siding?

-Steve

[Ed Kapuscinski]

It's getting there, but you're missing some important stuff.

The west end isn't setup to allow for access from the drill track to all the others without see-sawing over (and fouling the main).

Can you shove the mains further back? I think it's really important to keep that clean flow I had drawn out around the cab and power tracks. You really don't want a bottle neck when it comes to moving power around. I think it may help quite a bit if you added in a crossover to the right of the one at the "end" of the cab tracks. This would let power move in and out without needing to clear out a string of cabooses.

Also, I think you'd be better off if you can have that east end engine escape track run directly across the turntable, or tie in right to the engine tracks, as opposed to the TT.

Also, on the east end, the drill track ties in on the wrong side of the A/D ladder. You need that crew to be able to get to both of em.

But this is good, it's confirming that it will mostly work.

[asciibaron]

http://www.wildcardgraphics.biz/media/Hagerstown%20Draft%20Plan.pdf

There you go... First draft.  Have at it.

A/D will hold about 15 cars, 2 locos, and a cabin... maybe.

the switching leads aren't nearly long enough.  you need to be able to pull an entire train from the A/D down the lead to class it - you do not want to leave chunks in the A/D - that will grind the layout to a halt very quickly. plus what Ed said about the see-saw. 

a stub yard would work much better IMO, the leads are going to eat you alive.

[wm3798]

I'm not sure I follow you on the see saw bit.  Follow me on this one...

From the west (left)... Train arrives, enters A/D track 6,7 or 8 (engines can pull through into the east ladder, since they'll be cutting off, which should allow for the standard 18 car train length.)

Switcher grabs caboose from west end, and pushes it into caboose track, third from top.  (Sorry about the lack of labels... for some reason my Adobe isn't letting me tag the pdf... For the sake of discussion, the main line tracks at the top are 1 and 2, the caboose track 3 and so on...)

Now, the switcher can grab the cut off the a$$ end of the train, pull straight back onto the drill track, then start working it into the class bowl.  Other than the caboose move, where is the see saw?

On the east end, I had to compromise and access the drill track only from track 8.  All westbounds (other than through trains using the main) will have to arrive on track 8.  I will have to look at how this can be reconfigured to preserve train length and improve eastbound access (and building westbounds).  The problem there is the end of the drill track is at the west end of the current North Junction shelf.  One option would be to abandon the scrap yard spur off the PC track, and just connect it to the drill track...  That will have to be sorted out.

I also don't see how switching the class bowl (tracks 9-15) would foul the main at all.  On the left side, the westbound main is the outer track, eastbound is the second.  The third track is the drill track, which I tied into the eastbound main as a matter of convenience.  The drill track is plenty long enough to switch a cut of 10 or 12 cars without needing the main.

I definitely see the advantages of the double ended yard, however, I'm inclined to agree with Steve that a single ended class bowl will help add length to the  double ended A/D tracks, where you really need it.  It would have the added benefit of more length in the bowl itself, and eliminate cluster fluff that is the East end.  I'll tinker around with it for a bit and see what I come up with.

Lee

[asciibaron]

here is the see-saw - sorry for the Get get - i have a baby on my lap and he's being a pain.

[wm3798]

I explained that compromise in my last post... I'm not happy with it either.  Ed made the see-saw comment about the west end... you're looking at the east end.

Lee

[asciibaron]

I explained that compromise in my last post... I'm not happy with it either.  Ed made the see-saw comment about the west end... you're looking at the east end.

having to work only 1 track makes the east end pointless.  what happens when you have 2 trains going west at the same time?  you would do better to just have a stub ended yard and work everything from the west. 

have one operator do all the drilling and have a yard master to deal with the dispatcher and arrange the paperwork.  will 3 people fit in the area, you don't want the crews doing the drilling to also have to work with the dispatcher and arrange paperwork - i just don't think the yard is big enough, both in physical size and operational capacity, to support dual end operations.

i know of very few layouts that have double ended yards with 2 crews.

-Steve

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Right, the west end see-saw. It's when you have power or a caboose that needs to come off of a train, it needs to foul the mains. Also, it means that the yard power (who'd probably be doing the caboose removal) would have to be jumping across.

And I don't think it'll necessarily need two PEOPLE, but having locomotives to work stuff from both ends would be most helpful.

[DKS]

Forgive me for intruding, but I've been following this thread with interest. In analyzing the situation, in order to remain true to the schematic laid out by Ed, the east end of the classification yard needs to swing aroung the corner of the room substantially. This results in the east drill track having to be pulled west of North Jct, and it would probably have to cross the aisle to pass under the layout on the other side. This may be somewhat awkward, and perhaps North Jct might need to be re-thought. Or, maybe the drill track could be on a swing-up piece or something. The shape of the yard would also impact the shape of Chaffee in order to maintain aisle space.

Anyway, for what it's worth, here's my contribution to the discussion. I've also added a RIP track, in case anyone's interested.

[asciibaron]

Anyway, for what it's worth, here's my contribution to the discussion. I've also added a RIP track, in case anyone's interested.

and there you have it - a two sided yard eats up space.