Help with layout planning, please?

[qantaqa]

You tickled my risibles, qantaqa. "Gigantic Pickle Mine" indeed.  ;D ;D ;D  That hill does sorta look like a gigantic pickle, though...

The original outline was in brown as in the previous pic...  pickle wasn't my first thought, hotdog was my second, but that's why the green, to obscure it.  ;D

[tom mann]

Name and age?  Pickle Mine?  Maybe this guy is related!? ;D

[davefoxx]

As someone who has built a layout on a 36" x 80" door, I think that you are being way too optimistic about how much track/scenery you can squeeze into the space.  For example, that reasonably complex yard and locomotive facility?  Ain't gonna fit.  Here's a small yard I have on the backside of my layout.

Now I admit, that you could take out the hill on my layout and get more track in there, but I still don't think that you'll get in nearly what you're trying to.

Also, my recommendation is to avoid the temptation to build a spaghetti bowl.  They're always hell to scenic and just never look that good.  If you cannot add another door, as Lee suggested, just get used to doing what I do: occasionally swap out rolling stock from storage to mix it up.

Hope this helps,
Dave Foxx

[qantaqa]

Thanks Dave.  I built a skettibowl a while ago, and wasn't happy.  Good pic, too, as I'm not really able to visualize my drawings in real life...


here's the last one done up quickly in xtrakcad; I'd need to re-space those parallel tracks at the top, as 1" is much too close.  Is this more like what you were talking about, David?



John

[wm3798]

How about a continuous double track loop, that would allow you to make your turns a bit more gentle... open up the inside track to 15" and make the outside 16.25" or thereabouts.  But a full interlocking outside of your yard, and a crossover on the opposite side of the loop, and you should have all the flexibility you need.

Then, take that long straight double track and put a soft bend in it, so it's not all parallel to the table... You'll have John Armstrong spinning in his grave...

Lee

[DKS]

Is this more like what you were talking about, David?

Pretty much, yes. I'd suggest running the yard tracks on an angle, pointing down and to the left, to add interest and create room for a freight depot and/or an industry. In addition, I'd shuffle the yard ladder around to do away with the double slips. Others might recommend some different tweaks as well for improved operation.

How about a continuous double track loop, that would allow you to make your turns a bit more gentle... open up the inside track to 15" and make the outside 16.25" or thereabouts.  But a full interlocking outside of your yard, and a crossover on the opposite side of the loop, and you should have all the flexibility you need.

Then, take that long straight double track and put a soft bend in it, so it's not all parallel to the table... You'll have John Armstrong spinning in his grave...

I second these two suggestions (Lee beat me to it on the double track loop). The double track loop would have the added benefit of serving as the yard lead when needed, so you could get rid of the rather short yard lead you've got now, and use that space for something else.

Oh, and that roundhouse image I linked to earlier seems to have gone all funky. This should work better:

http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM7CJ

And here it is in Live Search:

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=rkfq394scm01&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=5576224&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

[wm3798]

Okay, I've got my monkey wrench, I'm winding up and getting ready to throw...
What about if you take your door, and cut it along a 12" axis through the middle, and flop one side over so your table becomes a sort of chevron shape...


This opens up a myriad of possibilities...  Your yard can be a foot longer, your main line can undulate more, your scenic divider can be more 3 dimensional, and you have more room for your round house.  You'll need to work out more details on the yard/ET facilities of course, but I think this would really make for a simple solution and a much more interesting layout.  To secure it, all you'd need is two simple L girders and typical folding table legs.  Cut a couple of wood blocks to fill the hollow core at the cut, and voila!

*Edit*  Yes to David's roundhouse configuration suggestion... that would tuck all of that stuff on the top side of the scenic divider.

What d'ya say to that?
Lee

PS... Mmmm, I have two 30" doors out in the garage...

[qantaqa]

Really great design, Lee... the problem lies in the space I have to fill, which isn't really conducive to that shallow of an angle... 90deg. or nothing, I'm afraid.  But thanks!

what about:



Still details to work out for the little yard bit and where to place industries etc.  that's a little river on the left. JIC.


Cheers!

[qantaqa]

Ok.  After some serious post-brainfart moments :, I think I _can_ use that idea, Lee, and by adding my other door alongside, thusly:



and placing the TT along the far left side, just below the edge of the perpendicular section in the middle, I can use David's idea for the engine shed on it's own little piece, (thanks for those links, btw, as I was only aware of the TT in Tacoma...), and have a little more room for scenery, as well as hide most of the back of the layout completely.  now, what to do with that empty triangle on the upper-right.....

Thanks!!!

John Mann

*edit: finally, a place for the roundhouse....        

add some turnouts and industries or something..... 

[wm3798]

I'd stretch out the mainline on the angle section, and put the engine house on the narrower portion.  You can still represent the full scope of the round house, just cut the back off of a few stalls to fit it against the wall.
Lee

[CVSNE]

Since no one else has come out and said it - although a few have hinted at it - I'll go ahead and throw the bucket of cold water.

Trying to get a 130-foot turntable and a yard, along with mainline running and scenery - even if you can physically fit it in the space - will never look right and I'm afraid you'll just be frustrated with how the thing ends up looking and even running. 

Since the biggest issue is the turntable (the space the table takes up isn't really an issue, the main problem is the approach tracks, storage tracks, etc  . . . try designing a layout WITHOUT the turntable and see what other possibilities open up. On a small layout like this I'd much rather have an industry or two rather than a yard and turntable.

Another possibility - if you're really hung up on having the turntable - is to do it "right" - and model nothing but a kickin' engine terminal in this space. No continuous loops, bridges, tunnels or anything else - just the house, table, pits, coal/oil facilities, even a "modern" diesel engine servicing pad.   That way, in a few years when you have the "big one" you'll have a labor-intensive piece of it ready to go.

Marty

[Dave V]

As another door layout builder, I'd also second the notion that there may be too much optimism here regarding what will fit comfortably in a 3' wide space.  As much as I would also love a large yard, an engine facility, or shop complex, the door thing doesn't really lend itself to it.  I found that less track, more scenery was a better compromise.  Like you, I see the small layout as a "placeholder" for a future big one, so I've come to accept certain compromises.  My thought, unsolicited though it is, is to forgo the turntable and yard, and do something more scenic.  That way you can run your large steam through scenery more appropriately scaled to the trains, de-emphaszing the sharp curves.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'd have said that there's too much track in there... but every time I do I get made fun of.

[wm3798]

The old Challenger and Big Boy on a Door Layout trick!  My suggestion would be to make one end of the layout a train museum, and have them on static display... otherwise you won't be able to have a tree or a structure within 3" of your track!

But I dig... You've got a lot invested in hardware, and you want to run it...  Is 13" adequate mechanically for those monsters?  It definitely isn't enough aesthetically....  It would be a shame to not let them stretch their legs a bit... If you have room, you might consider adding a second door in an L shape, so you can have at least two curves that are better suited to the visual, then you can bury the tight end turns in some scenery.
Lee

Marty said... "Since no one else has come out and said it - although a few have hinted at it"

In the fourth post in this thread I dropped a hint?  How about a brick through a window!?!
Sheesh!  I guess that's what happens when you only read page 2!
Lee

[qantaqa]

Since no one else has come out and said it - although a few have hinted at it - I'll go ahead and throw the bucket of cold water.

Since the biggest issue is the turntable (the space the table takes up isn't really an issue, the main problem is the approach tracks, storage tracks, etc  . . . try designing a layout WITHOUT the turntable and see what other possibilities open up. On a small layout like this I'd much rather have an industry or two rather than a yard and turntable.

I completely hear what you, and Dr. Dave  , are saying, Marty.  I've got a really bad habit of trying to cram as much track into available space as possible.

Better??

Another possibility - if you're really hung up on having the turntable - is to do it "right" - and model nothing but a kickin' engine terminal in this space. No continuous loops, bridges, tunnels or anything else - just the house, table, pits, coal/oil facilities, even a "modern" diesel engine servicing pad.   That way, in a few years when you have the "big one" you'll have a labor-intensive piece of it ready to go.

yeah, I was thinking about that, too.....

still working out where all the facility tracks would go... I'm thinking about just starting at the TT and RH, just to have something to do...
just one idea I drew up a few months ago

g'night all

John