The first railwire inspired kit, PRR/PC/CR/LV X58?

[Iain]

I must say that I am impressed with the enthusiasm expressed towards this car.  I thought that there were not that many N scale eastern modelers out there.

I assume you are joking. The vast majority of the US population lives in the eastern part of the U.S.

Must be going by the same info that Kato uses?

[DKS]

I must say that I am impressed with the enthusiasm expressed towards this car.  I thought that there were not that many N scale eastern modelers out there.

Poll time!

[ai5629]

I realize the majority of the US population is in the eastern half.  I'm just going by what I have observed in N scale for the past 24 years.  Anything that is painted Union Pacific, Sante Fe, Southern Pacific, etc sells very well.  Look at Kato and the SP daylight train.  Don't they have so many reservations that they have to increase the production run?  Stuff that is painted to smaller eastern railroads does not sell as well.  Look at the Bershires Life Like made.  Kleins is selling them for $100.  I bought mine initally for around $180.  Had I waited, I could have saved $80.  The only reason I bought one is my father got to ride in the cab of NKP 765 when it was in Pittsburgh in the early 90's.  I have been a dedicated PRR/PC/CR modeler since I first got into trains in 1984.  I have painted and decalled over 150 CR, PC, and PRR cars.  And I took a nine year break while I remodeled my house.  My apologies for digressing.  I want to see the X58 produced.  I did find it interesting about the cars being a close match to some Burlington boxcars.  That could bring in a Western contingent, which would bode well for the project.  Thanks.

Jeff

[Denver Road Doug]

I posted this on the "hijacked" thread, but regarding the Burlington cars...

The CB&Q built two groups of X58 "clones" in its own shops.  CB&Q 23300-23499 (class XML-14), and 20695-20899 (class XML-16), built in 1967 and 1969 respectively.  The first group was delivered in the Chinese Red schme, and the second group in "merger" green.

I found the following corresponding BN series cars:
BN 281600-281799 -  Boxcar  ex-CB&Q  23300-23499 
BN 316900-317104 -  Boxcar  ex-CB&Q  20695-20899

I haven't had a chance to confirm anything here, but that was the result of a quick search.  So yes, a western contingent is possible.

[Matthew Roberts]

I realize the majority of the US population is in the eastern half.  I'm just going by what I have observed in N scale for the past 24 years.  Anything that is painted Union Pacific, Sante Fe, Southern Pacific, etc sells very well.  Look at Kato and the SP daylight train.  Don't they have so many reservations that they have to increase the production run?  Stuff that is painted to smaller eastern railroads does not sell as well.  Look at the Bershires Life Like made.  Kleins is selling them for $100.  I bought mine initally for around $180.  Had I waited, I could have saved $80.  The only reason I bought one is my father got to ride in the cab of NKP 765 when it was in Pittsburgh in the early 90's.  I have been a dedicated PRR/PC/CR modeler since I first got into trains in 1984.  I have painted and decalled over 150 CR, PC, and PRR cars.  And I took a nine year break while I remodeled my house.  My apologies for digressing.  I want to see the X58 produced.  I did find it interesting about the cars being a close match to some Burlington boxcars.  That could bring in a Western contingent, which would bode well for the project.  Thanks.

Jeff

I think there may be the whole glamourization of the West factor coming into play, along with the fact that there were only a few major western roads, whereas there have been many eastern class I railroads, each with its own faction of railroaders, with only say, the Pennsy, NYC, B&O and maybe the C&O being that well known.

[Mark5]

I realize the majority of the US population is in the eastern half.  I'm just going by what I have observed in N scale for the past 24 years.  Anything that is painted Union Pacific, Sante Fe, Southern Pacific, etc sells very well.  Look at Kato and the SP daylight train.  Don't they have so many reservations that they have to increase the production run? 

I've got nearly 40 years in N. Kato is a very bad example. Kato can't sell what it doesn't make.

Conversely, you can't buy what they don't make.

The LL Berk is another bad example. N scale steam is for the most part still in diapers. Well, maybe a toddler. The Kato Mike was a dud when 1st released as well.

There are plenty of eastern N scale modelers. ;D

I think pretty much 100% of the modelers I have personally known model eastern roads.

(I live in the east)

I watching to see what happens with the X58, as I could use one in PRR.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

CB&Q "X58"
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cbq/cbq23399akg.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cbq/cbq23470.jpg

This is the second group so the first group may be closer to the PRR version. The side stills are different and the door appears lower. The seems to match the Kato/Con-Cor car exactly:


I still belive the Con-Cor car is undersized-too low, but it is a lot better then the 1/185 Model Power X58:

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I had never seen those Daniel, nice!

I need to find me some, until the real deal comes out.

[wazzou]

I think there are some differences in the ConCor car that Daniel showed compared to the CB&Q XML-14 cars in series #23300-23499.  The cars are squatty and have doors over 11' in width not 10' but the squatty appearance makes this look even worse.  The CB&Q cars had overhanging eaves on the roof and diagonal panels while the ConCor car has a Murphy style panel roof and no overhanging eave.  As Daniel pointed out the lower side sills are all wrong.  I haven't seen very many photos of the X-58's but if I recall they had a strip of rivets at the floor level between panels.  The ConCor car mathces that look OK.
I think it is coincidence that the CB&Q cars appear similar, though they do differ.  Remember, the CB&Q built these cars in 1967 at there Havelock, NE shops.  I assume that the Pennsylvania built there own cars at there shops.  The GN had very similar cars to the CB&Q, but purchased them from Pacific Car & Foundry.  I think the important thing to remember here is that if you intend to have these X-58's done, don't assume throngs of CB&Q or GN modelers will flock to them as stand-ins.  I wouldn't expect that many Pennsylvania,  Penn Central or Conrail modelers would rush to buy models offered by CB&Q enthusiasts who have built the XML-14 either.

I could probably build a pretty accurate master of the X-58 cars, if provided with enough photos and extensive measurements, though the rivets at the floor line would be a concern to me.

Regards,
Bryan

[ai5629]

I threw out a call for help with plans for an X58 on the Yahoo CR, PC, and PRR modeler's groups.  Here is what I got in response so far:

From the CR group:
As someone who has, repeatedly, attempted to build a group
of HO scale X58's (now the only HARD part is money!), I'll tell
you that the side panels aren't terribly hard to get "real close"...
even in HO. In N, I'd be very comfortable with ignoring the
things that I couldn't let go of in HO: the "hat section" flat parts
of the ribs, and rivets. Spacing the side ribs is a matter of
mathematics. Get the end posts and door "situated"... then
divide the remaining length into rib-spaces.
Another option would be to acquire one of Gene's HO cars to
measure up. Then you could give it away to a longtime
acquaintance when you're done....
If only doing a handful for yourself... make the sides fit into a
commercial roof, ends, and floor. I was using Accurail's HO
car. The Atlas "Precision Design" (X71) would work well, also,
and I think it's available in N.

Den

An email to me:
Hi Jeff,

I have a drawing database on my website that lists 100 x58 drawings. 
Click on "PRR Documents" then "Drawing Search." Maybe what you need 
is there. The 1960 to 1970 timeframe has about 2000 drawings.

Regards,

Greg Ritacco

http://www.prrfastexpressservice.com/


And I got this one on the PRR modeler's group:

Jeff;

You first need to talk to Gene, but he is a businessman who invested a lot of
time in R&D, so you may have to work on an arrangement. Does he not want to
do the car in N? Obviously, he has done far more work on this car than you
want to do yourself, and you would have to go to considerable lengths to get
a set of plans. The PRRT&HS does not have them in their archives, and you
would have to go to the State Archives at Harrisburg and dig......

Elden

Thanks.

Jeff

[ai5629]

One more response to the email listed at the end of this message(an email to me):

Hi Jeff,
You have to buy them from the Society or the PA State Archives, those links are on my help page.
Greg



An email to me:
Hi Jeff,
I have a drawing database on my website that lists 100 x58 drawings. 
Click on "PRR Documents" then "Drawing Search." Maybe what you need 
is there. The 1960 to 1970 timeframe has about 2000 drawings.
Regards,
Greg Ritacco
http://www.prrfastexpressservice.com/[/color][/color]

[sirenwerks]

Can't put dimples in the upper half for the grabs since for the later model, post roofwalk, the ladder of grabs only go halfway up and you wouldn't want dimples going from the midpoint to the roof of the model on the side.

How about an etched drill template?

[bsoplinger]

Can't put dimples in the upper half for the grabs since for the later model, post roofwalk, the ladder of grabs only go halfway up and you wouldn't want dimples going from the midpoint to the roof of the model on the side.

How about an etched drill template?

If you look at the picture of the BLMA ladder fret posted early on in the thread, you'll see a type C item which isn't a ladder per-se but actually a grab because that was the style that was often used on the sides of cars to form a ladder. In other words, these aren't the U-ish shape bent grab but an etched part that represents a grab and the hardware that was used to attach it to the car body.

So a drill template isn't quite the right idea although you could use it to just mark spots vs actually drilling a hole.

OTOH if you just meant to use the template to make marks where to put the grabs and didn't really intend it to be used to make holes in the side of the car, nevermind my bad

Brian

[Bob Bufkin]

For something different in an X58, I came across a photo of Conrail 368191 and it has an air conditioning unit hunt on one end.  This car was used as a rolling display car/theater for Operations Lifesaver.  Photo is in TRP Issue #73 Apr/May/June 07.

[sirenwerks]

OTOH if you just meant to use the template to make marks where to put the grabs and didn't really intend it to be used to make holes in the side of the car, nevermind my bad Wink

Exactly! I was working on accounting drill-downs when I stopped to take a break and typed that message. The word "drill" was lodged in my brain.