Hashing out a Freelance Road

[wm3798]

Or a steak house specializing in Filet of Florsheim...

[Matthew Roberts]

Filet of Florsheim?

Ponderosa is a good buffet place though.

How's expanding the LRV going, Lee?

[Matthew Roberts]

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but since school's ending, it's looking better for some modeling time.

What kind of interchange (other road's cars) would this road get, what kind of traffic flow would there be for each foreign roads cars, etc, what kind of road would be most seen? I checked out the 1948 Railroad Atlases at the PFMSIG site, and it looks like the A&TM would interchange with the following roads: AT&SF (14 places, 12 in TX, 2 in CO, 2 in OK), SL-SF (5 places, 1 in TX, 4 in OK), CRI&P (6 places, 1 in TX, 2 in CO, 3 in OK), M-K-T (7 places, 5 in TX, 2 in OK), MoP (7 places, 6 in TX, 1 in CO), T&P (3 places, all in TX), SP (9 places, all in TX), CB&Q (inc C&S and FW&D) (4 places, 3 in TX, 1 in CO), D&RGW (3 places, all in CO), UP (1 place, in CO), NdeM (1, at TX/MX border), and the Tex-Mex (1, in TX).

Any input on traffic flow, foreign car ratios, etc, would be helpful.

This kind of research is fun.  ;D

[Denver Road Doug]

Matthew, what era are you looking at again?

Near Amarillo, helium and carbon black are two big potential traffic sources in the area.  You could also receive interchange traffic of such from the Santa Fe, Rock Island, and FW&D depending on the scenario.

I would say overall your bread and butter will be grain traffic and rock traffic.  Also a lot of petrochemical traffic, some coal, and of course passengers depending on era.

You have the unique ability to propose the "what if" to one of the great mysteries...what if the "South Orient" line would have actually been built out and ran by a prosporous railroad?  So, the Mexican roads alone could be a signature of your railroad.

[Matthew Roberts]

I'm looking at somewhere around the mid-1950s, (i.e. 1953-57) or the late 1960s (1965-68) so that I can model steam realistically, as most of the roads in this area of the USA had steam gone by around 1957 (I know that MoP got rid of steam by 1955, for example) or so that I could run some first-gen ALCos along with some passenger service.

What do you think would be some good mainline passenger routes? I guess probably Houston-Austin-Lubbock-Denver would be the main one? Along with maybe a OK City-Lubbock-San Angelo-Presidio-Monterrey train?

[wm3798]

Filet of Florsheim?

Ponderosa is a good buffet place though.

How's expanding the LRV going, Lee?

Glad you pulled this thread back from the dead... I didn't realize you asked a question that went unanswered!  Sorry about that!

I've sketched out a track plan that will extend my Connellsville sub into the next room, which allows for a live interchange with the Laurel Valley.  That is many years and several graduations away though...  I'm not a big fan of GP-20's either, but when Hobby Expo was dumping them for $25, I couldn't resist.  I also like their low hood similarity to the Western Maryland's chop nose geep 7 and 9's.

Sounds like the research is moving along for you... do you have a layout space yet?
Lee

[Denver Road Doug]

I'm not really an authority on passenger service (or anything really!) so I'm sure some of the others could have more input there.  I can say that the FW&D/C&S Texas Zephyr ran from Houston to Denver via Fort Worth, Quanah, and Amarillo.  So maybe some kind of joint venture that ties into the TZ at Amarillo similar to the Frisco/MKT Texas Special. (which I don't really know much about either other than it was a joint effort)  Maybe doodlebug or RDC service to some of the smaller markets?  I would guess there are some strategic links that I'm not privy to that would be money makers. (access to the Sunset Route from central Texas?)

Regarding running steam, the FW&D ran steam into the late 50's so keeping steam around as a "competitive advantage" would be reasonable.

[Matthew Roberts]

Thinking back to Lee's suggestion that the road be a western version of the Western Maryland and its "last way there, best way there" approach led me to start thinking about some of the infrastructure I'd like to have show up on the model version of the "Texas Road", especially bridges. Also on my mind has been scenery.

I'm most likely going to model a segment between Austin and San Angelo, and of that, probably a modified version of the SP Llano Branch between Austin and Burnet, especially since it has several things going for it: interchange at McNeil (aerial map), Short Creek Canyon (image on ASTA site), and the crossing of the South San Gabriel River (another ASTA photo). But I'd probably insert something more like the 8th Crossing of the C&O Canal by the WM (image from WM West Sub site) in place of the real bridge (a little more impressive).

The only other areas I'd consider, just for the sheer beauty of the scenery, would be the connection with the SP Sunset Route in the Davis Mountains, and the line leading up to that (the South Orient). This is the location of the only real "mountains" in Texas (approx. 8000ft above sea level, and 3000ft above the valleys), and home of some real mountain railroading. (picture of Paisano Pass from Wes Carr). But there's not much industry or activity, other than through trains. I guess on a layout I could create action by having some healthy interchange from the SP, and helper action, too?

What do you all think?

[Matthew Roberts]

Filet of Florsheim?

Ponderosa is a good buffet place though.

How's expanding the LRV going, Lee?

Glad you pulled this thread back from the dead... I didn't realize you asked a question that went unanswered!  Sorry about that!

I've sketched out a track plan that will extend my Connellsville sub into the next room, which allows for a live interchange with the Laurel Valley.  That is many years and several graduations away though...  I'm not a big fan of GP-20's either, but when Hobby Expo was dumping them for $25, I couldn't resist.  I also like their low hood similarity to the Western Maryland's chop nose geep 7 and 9's.

Sounds like the research is moving along for you... do you have a layout space yet?
Lee

Lee, ya, I have part of the walls of my new bedroom, a space approximately 10'x6', with some additional closet space for staging.

No biggie about the unanswered question. You gave good ideas anyways (example above post).

I'm not really an authority on passenger service (or anything really!) so I'm sure some of the others could have more input there.  I can say that the FW&D/C&S Texas Zephyr ran from Houston to Denver via Fort Worth, Quanah, and Amarillo.  So maybe some kind of joint venture that ties into the TZ at Amarillo similar to the Frisco/MKT Texas Special. (which I don't really know much about either other than it was a joint effort)  Maybe doodlebug or RDC service to some of the smaller markets?  I would guess there are some strategic links that I'm not privy to that would be money makers. (access to the Sunset Route from central Texas?)

Regarding running steam, the FW&D ran steam into the late 50's so keeping steam around as a "competitive advantage" would be reasonable.

Thanks Doug. Hadn't really thought much about doodlebug/RDC service, though that might be cool, I know that the RI had RDC from Amarillo to Memphis eventually. Along the steam front, I am looking into some 0-8-0s, 2-8-0s, 2-8-2s, 2-8-4s, and 4-8-2s, along with some RS-1s, NW2s, F3s, and GP7s. Any kind of connection with the TZ would be cool, or the TX Special, maybe even the TX Eagle.

[up1950s]

If you expand the name a bit it opens up commodity's a lot .

Gulf Texas & Northern " The western railway to the sea "

[Matthew Roberts]

That does have a nice ring to it Richie! Thanks, never thought of it like that!

[Matthew Roberts]

Does anyone else have any comments on some of the infrastructure stuff I posted?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I like it, although I'm not familiar (at all) with the geography.

[Denver Road Doug]

I like it, although I'm not familiar (at all) with the geography.

Sure you are.  Got a dining room table?   

OK, so it's not that bad.  The Hill Country is downright beautiful scenery, and then you have the Palo Duro Canyon area around Amarillo so there's potential.  (and of course the aforementioned Davis Mountains)  And like all railroads heading west across Texas you have to fall off the "table" at some point so there's a chance for a helper district depending on how good your civil engineers were.  Since  your are heading more north than west you can probably wind off the table a little easier I guess.

I'd say the area you are choosing to model is the "sweet spot", both geographically and operationally.  I'm not real familiar with the San Angelo area, but the majority of your trains would pass between Austin and San Angelo given your map.  I'm guessing that maybe somewhere around San Angelo would be your center of operations...a large yard and engine shops.  I'm basing that on your "last, best" plan (which I think is good!) and the fact that your railroad would look for cheaper land than could be found in, say, Austin.  You could put the yard just south of San Angelo and make that your northernmost modeled portion (or it could just be visible staging) and then down to Austin for industry, interchange and a fancy-schmancy passenger station.

Make your bread and butter passenger train the straight shot you offer between Austin and Denver. (the "Capital Ranger"?)  And of course a section to Houston to compete with the FW&D.  I really like the RDC idea, too.  The FW&D used Doodlebugs early on and "late, best" means you have the luxury of the streamlined version.

[Matthew Roberts]

I always look forward to your comments and criticism, Doug, being a fellow Texan, you understand the most about some of the terrain, flow, etc.

Yeah, the section I'm looking at modeling is nowhere near flat! On the current shortline, there's a hill near Burnet that has a pretty good grade, it's the closest thing to Tehachapi or Cajon I've ever seen, somewhere near a 2% grade eastbound. Nowhere near the traffic flow, but on my version, who knows??? What I'm looking to model is not exactly the Hill Country, but near Burnet and Llano it comes close.

I'm guessing your talking about the plan I drew up Doug? In that version, San Angelo would most definitely be the hub of operations for the entire railroad, being right on the intersection of the Orient line and the Port Lavaca line, as well as near the branch to OK. All three of these lines would probably be high traffic, especially southbound, with export traffic (like grain from the plains, coal from Colorado, cattle, petrochemicals, etc.) Austin would most likely be the site of the road's grandest station, what being on the main Port Lavaca line, as well as the beginning of the branch to Houston.

I do wonder though, how busy the line south of Austin to Port Lavaca would be, compared to the Houston Branch? I guess if by that time Lavaca had developed due to its own railroad, it might be equal or greater? ???

But what branches would be low-traffic enough for a RDC? San Angelo-Presidio, along with maybe Victoria-Port Lavaca or Victoria-Corpus Christi? What about Lubbock-OK City or San Angelo-Ft. Worth?