Hashing out a Freelance Road

[squirrelhunter]

Yeah, not much big power in Texas.

Her is my rundown, excluding the Santa Fe through Amarillo. It is mostly based off of original pictures I have see in museums or other documents or books.

AT&SF- I have seen pictures of 3765 class 4-8-4 as far south as Somerville. Otherwise, there were a few 2-10-2's they used on the old Gulf division, mainly the smaller older ones in the 900's.

CRI&P-Lloyd Stagner's excellent article about them in trains says that their 4-8-4's replaces 2-8-0's on trains into Dalllas/Ft. Worth in the early to mid 40's. Ther problem was bridge capacity across the Red River I think. I have never heard if their 4-8-2's were able to operate into Dallas before the 4-8-4's.

FW&D/C&S-I have seen pictures of C&S 2-10-2's working freights north out of Houston.

KCS- The 2-10-4's worked north fo DeQueen, Ark., but their ex Ann Arbor light 2-10-2's and 0-6-6-0's my have mede it into Texas on their lines to Dallas and Port Artuur.

M-K-T- Mikes and Pacifics only.

MP Texas Lines- The biggest and only super power they had were 5 2-8-4's with 63 inch drivers. Lloyd Stagner also wrote an article about these in the Aug 1988 issue of trains. In Mopac Powr, Joe Collias says that a 2-10-2 was tested on oines out of Crockett in the early 30's to see if it could burn lignite. The only other power bigger that a 2-8-2 or 4-6-2 was the 7 original 4-8-2's that MP sent to Kingsville during/after the war. They were not mcuh bigger than light 2-8-2 and had 63 inch drivers. They were gone by 1947. Strangely, in similar teritiroy in Louisiana on MP line proper, MP assigned their light 4-8-2 copies to freight and passenger work after they were bumped from St. Loius- Kansas City by bigger power.

SSW/Cotton Belt- They used both their 4-8-4's and secondhand ex Rock and FEC 4-8-2's into Texas, either to Corsicana or Dallas.

Texas & New Orleans- The SP used two kinds of big power in Texas, 2-10-2's and GS- 4-8-4's. The 2-10-2's handled traffic on the Sunset Route, the Houston to Victoria line and may have worked the Flatonia to Dallas line. They may have worked elsewhere, but those are the ones I am certain/fairly certain on. The 4-8-4's handled passenger work on the mainline on trains like the Argonaut. They got 7 from pacific lines to add to the original 4 in the early 40's with new GS-3's and 4's showed up over in California.

I think part of the reason why Texas was getting seconds as far as steam power went was that it was not the economic center it became after WWII, lines were usually owned by subsidiaries and the topography was perieven as flat. And for most western roads, there was a preoccupation with transcontinental traffic vs north south traffic. Only when MP woke up and realized the entire chemical industry had set up shop in Texas did they realize their most valuable line ran from St. Louis to Houston, not from St. Louis to Kansas City.

[Matthew Roberts]

Bunch of interesting motive power information there, squirrelhunter.

Just how big was the power through Amarillo on the ATSF, I'm guessing all the way up to 2-10-4s?

What about the Frisco?

So it seems like the largest power would have been on the FW&D and the T&NO? (That is, besides the T&P and the ATSF trans-con?)

Nice take on the MoPac story, too. Have any idea why the Katy used such light power?

[squirrelhunter]

I think Frisco 1500 class 4-8-2's operated to Sherman and maybe Dallas in later years when they had been bumped to freight hauls after diesels had arrived.

The Santa Fe through the Panhandle had everything, the big 2-8-4's, 4-8-2's, 4-8-4's, 2-10-2's and 2-10-4's.

Katy never ordered a new steamer after 1924 or 25 I think. Mainly it was because Katy had a slew of lighter power, underwent some route contracation in the early 20's, and was finacially shaky forever after the feds revoked their land grants in Oklahoma as illegal.

Katy basically in the years between 1925 and 1940 scrapped all of their 4-6-0's, almost all of their 2-8-0's and even a class of 35 2-8-2's. They also scrapped alll but 6 or so 4-4-0's and even some 2-6-0's. I think they scrapped around 100 steamers in that timeframe when all of their neighbors were ordering superpower like 4-8-4's.

[Virginia Atlantic]

Pretty interesting discussion.

I am a big fan of freelanced roads.  Love the creativity involved in fleshing out it's character, making it seem real from nothing.

My one question would be.....what is your logo/symbol?  You could have the greatest Freelance idea/plausabillity in the world, and if the roadname is silly/lame or your logo is tripe, all that effort could be wasted. 

So lets see some graphics then, eh?

And on a personal note, I have to admit....when I was creating freelance ideas, I always created the roadname and logo first, then worked backwards to build a solid foundation of reality to support it.  Of course, plausabillity went into whcih names I liked, and which then got worked on for logos and further treatement, but if I couldn't create something striking/interesting/semi-original, I never moved forward on it.

[Matthew Roberts]

Thanks for the Frisco Mountain info, squirrelhunter. As to the Santa Fe in the Panhandle, that was pretty much what I thought.

And very intriguing Katy thoughts, I never knew any of that. Makes sense now why they were like a weaker MoP.

Warfish, thanks, I guess. I just haven't gotten that far.

[DocGeoff]

If you come to Corpus Christi please consider an interchange agreement with the Texas and Southwestern. We can move your trains West to the Pacific. Also up and down the coast and to Mexico via trackage on the old South Orient.

[Matthew Roberts]

Why thankee, Doc.

Sounds good.

[RS-27]

Pretty interesting discussion.

I am a big fan of freelanced roads.  Love the creativity involved in fleshing out it's character, making it seem real from nothing.

My one question would be.....what is your logo/symbol?  You could have the greatest Freelance idea/plausabillity in the world, and if the roadname is silly/lame or your logo is tripe, all that effort could be wasted. 

So lets see some graphics then, eh?

And on a personal note, I have to admit....when I was creating freelance ideas, I always created the roadname and logo first, then worked backwards to build a solid foundation of reality to support it.  Of course, plausabillity went into whcih names I liked, and which then got worked on for logos and further treatement, but if I couldn't create something striking/interesting/semi-original, I never moved forward on it.

You're right.  But if you are stuck in the late seventies...  your best efforts are lame.  Think Amtrak?  I have a Anthracite merger:  RLC  =  RaiLCoalation. It hurts, but it is _so_ 70's.

Bob in IDaho

[wm3798]

My original Laurel Valley Railway emerged as a Conrail shortline spinoff, with an added twist.  I started with the right of way of the Ligonier Valley, which ran from Latrobe down to its namesake town.  In order to secure some bridge traffic and an interchange with a second major carrier, the railroad acquired the old Laurel Hill turnpike tunnel and made a connection with Somerset and the B&O Johnstown Branch.  That gave me access to the Western Maryland and B&O at Rockwood.  (Of course, by the early 80's, my original time frame, the WM was pushing up daisies, but not in MY world!)

When I shifted time and space back to the early 70's with more of a WM focus, I just backdated the LRV, kept the geography the same, but changed the story that it had been an East Broad Top style of mountain narrow gauge that upgraded to 4'8.5" and found a way to survive on a diet of crushed stone and coal.



No big power, just second hand GP's doing what they do best.

So now, LRV power can be seen running through on coal trains from Somerset to Baltimore, and also assisting with fast freights now and then.  This is the third iteration of the paint scheme...  the others were too horrible to record on film...

Lee

[Matthew Roberts]

That third LV scheme looks pretty sweet, Lee. How many LV units do you have?

Of course, it sounds a little bit smaller than what I have planned. ;D

How much of the original Western Maryland is left? The MMID? ???

[wm3798]

That's 'LRV' son, seems 'LV' was already taken...  I could get away with that in my post-Conrail scenario, saying that some cochemamey negotiation allowed the LV reporting marks to be inherited by the new company, but since it now exists in the same plane of the time-space continuum with the Lehigh, I had to re-letter a bunch of reporting marks.

I've currently got two GP-20's, but I want to add some F-units and perhaps an oddball Alco or two. 

The paint schemes are designed and decals in hand, just waiting for the right fresh kill on eBay.

The Western Maryland's east end is for the most part still intact and making money for CSX every day.  The major missing part is Port Covington, once one of the most efficient deep water ports on the east coast, now a Walmart parking lot.  The MMID operates the old main line between Emory Grove (northwest of Baltimore) and Highfield (just east of Hagerstown) via Westminster and Union Bridge.  CSX operates the Tidewater Sub, Hanover Sub (the line from Emory Grove to Highfield via Gettysburg), and the mainline from Highfield through Hagerstown to Cherry Run, the old connection with the B&O main line across the Potomac in West Virginia.  The old Lurgan Sub also still sees a lot of traffic between Hagerstown and Shippensburg, especially now with the opening of the "inland port" at Shippensburg.  This is where intermodal connections are made with major east-west and north south highways.

Beyond that, only snippets remain.  The segment from Cumberland to Frostburg operates as the WM Scenic Railroad, and there are some bits and pieces that still pull coal out of the hollers down in West Virginia.  But Black Fork Grade, Salisbury Viaduct and the 7 Potomac River crossings between Hancock and Cumberland are all silent now.

Come to think of it, it's time to go kick the cat...

Lee

[Matthew Roberts]

Nice WM history, Lee. I knew about the Lehigh Valley, I have a friend in WV who's a fan of their's. He told me how to pronounce it right.

The only two Appalachian lines I've ever personally encountered are the C&O between Maysville, KY and D.C. (on the Cardinal), and the B&O between Point-of-Rocks and Harpers Ferry (railfanning with a friend from the D.C. 'burbs over Spring Break). ;D Some nice country, even though it's way moister and hazier than Central Texas (the hills are actually sorta similiar    !)

The LRV (makes me think of that Canadian high-speed train) is quite cool; but I never liked GP20s.

[Ian MacMillan]

It didn't take too much to create my freelanced road as it is mostly spun on a true story of what might of happened if Guilford didn't come into the New England scene. I decided to base my railroad off of the real thought out plan to merge the B&M and MEC and decided to combine them under a new name.  Using the BM blue and universal 3 stripe of the 50's I came up with the scheme shown on the MP15 below. No big power here, mostly GP40's, GP9's (rebuilt into GP10's by CR) and MP15's.

The system contains trackage in ME, NH, VT and NY, and is based in Manchester, NH.

This was the first unit to come out of the paint shop and the paint was thicker than I wanted but I wanted to see how it would look on an actual model and not Photoshop. It has been since stripped and awaits repaint.

[Atlanticflier]

Ian,

The Scheme looks good on a model !

I think that A bit of History, such as Lee's,  always helps to make a Freelance road 'come to life'. And helps the owner to maintain some focus that leads to a more enjoyable Freelancing, IMHO.

Interesting thread and comments.

Warfish - glad to see you around...

Steven

ALABAMA GULF RAILWAY

[cv_acr]

That's 'LRV' son, seems 'LV' was already taken...  I could get away with that in my post-Conrail scenario, saying that some cochemamey negotiation allowed the LV reporting marks to be inherited by the new company, but since it now exists in the same plane of the time-space continuum with the Lehigh, I had to re-letter a bunch of reporting marks.

That can be an important consideration too. After you come up with a name, try to make sure that the reporting marks you derive from the name aren't already used by someone else in your time frame. I think some people don't ever think about it...