York PA WM Freight Station

[3rdrail]

"to weather cars"... yeah...

This you? http://therailwire.net/smf/index.php/topic,9298.0.html

[sirenwerks]

OK, this thread's been hijacked. I'm taking it back. BUt Ed, I'll try to snag a bottle of homemade vodka next time I'm at my Polish mechanic's place.

Spent time on the Eastern Shore yesterday doing some "research". (Nothing like going for a long drive to clear the head). On the way home I remembered spying a track running on the south shore of the Susquehanna, under the 95 bridge and towards the quarry that's along the river. Anyone know about this line? Did it just run to the quarry? Was it part of the dam construction? Did it extend further west (maybe connect with anything else or have that potential?) Also... anyone know about the line that connects with the NS River Line near Octaro (sp?) creek. Unfortunately, the roads there don't make it easy to stay along the rail line, and it was getting too late to explore on foot. Was this a trolley line maybe? The bridge crossing the creek seems mighty heavy to be for just a trolley.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

That bridge over on the eastern shore of the Susquehanna was for the PRR's Octoraro Branch, later the Octoraro RR, then Delaware Valley, now part of the East Penn.

What you're seeing is the far end of the line that actually started in Philly. The beginning is still one of Septa's lines, which now terminates at Elwyn, however the line itself continued on. It split at Wawa (namesake of the chain of wonderful convenience stores), with one branch heading toward West Chester, and the other heading for the Susquehanna.

It went through Chadds Ford (where it crossed the Reading's Wilmington & Northern branch), Kennet Square, and on to that bridge you see now.

Hurricane Agnes (I think) took its toll on the Wawa - Chadds Ford section and the line was at Chadds Ford Junction. A shortline named the Octoraro took over the Chadds Ford - Sylmar (the then end of track at, you guessed it, the PennSYLvania MARyland line) section, as well as the Wilmington & Northern branch (which was the REAL money maker, as it provided Lukens Steel in Coatesville access to CSX in Wilmington, opening up competitive rates for scrap movements).

Over the years, ownership has changed hands a number of times.

It's a REALLY cool little branch line, one which I had often thought about modeling.

As for current operations, thanks to Eric Augatis on the Tristate-RR list:

For those interested, when running as intended, I got the lowdown on EPRY's Octoraro (and W&N) operations based out of Kennett Square, PA, which is where they are basing themselves currently.

PRL U23B #2206 is kept in town during the winter months, since the block heater is here.  The unit faces west as kept along the main.  The Octoraro side usually runs Tu, Th OD @ 0700 with this unit.  They run east to Chadds Ford to pick their loads, then return west.  They'll bring their empties back to Chadds Ford for the interchange train, detailed below.  More on today's train later...

The W&N side stages it's power @ Embreeville, PA, about 6 miles north K-Sq (but 15 miles by rail).  Same crew, on duty 0700 M-W-F with EPRY B30-7's #7811 & #7874 (power is back-to-back, but for the most part, in poor light until late PM in summer).  I understand they generally run north to pull any empties (and sporadic NS interchange) from the BVRY @ Modena, PA.  They return south, picking up the empties left by the previous day's Octoraro train and head for Wilsmere, DE (CSXT) to interchange.

Even though most of the scrap traffic for BVRY is now being handled via NS @ Coatesville, this operation still does the majority of it's interchange with CSXT.

Today's train (2/6/07) started out rather late.  Crew marked 0700 @ Kennett Square (this should change to Avondale during the warmer months.  U23B #2206 appeared to have dead batteries given the 9° temps (and likely colder overnight).  They got her fired up, but further mechanical ailments prevented movement.  About 10am, the decision was made to drive up to Embreeville, PA to get the B30-7's and bring them down for today's Octoraro job.  Crew ran lite to Chadds Ford Junction for 5 loads, then headed west, arriving K-Sq about 12:10pm.  Four of today's cars were for Chagrin Gas on the east side of West Grove, PA, which is as far as they went today.  The straggler / idler was for a consignee who unloads @ McGrery Grain in Avondale, in addition to some switching of the grain mill itself.  I'm not sure how many empties they returned west with, but they were still working in Avondale when I left a little after 3pm.

Also, former BDLX U30B #402 and SW1 #55 (both x-Octoraro units, formerly stored @ Lenape) are sitting @ Kelton Road.  Word is that Delevan (RMDI) has sold them to an unknown scrap company / individual (?).  Both are in horrid shape.  They face west, SW1 coupled into the U30B.

Eric

[wm3798]

As for the quarry line, I believe that comes off of the PRR branch that runs through Havre de Grace.  That seems more logical than coming off the B&O which is at a much higher elevation.  I never actually traced the line, so I could be wrong.  It's been a while since I lived up there.

Lee

[sirenwerks]

Lee,

I'm pretty sure you're right about the quarry line coming off the PRR through HdG. It travles the shoreline, which would put it well below the B&O bridge line. I tried tracing the line using Google Earth last night and couldn't even find it (too much coffee and got impatient). Maybe I should just create another ficticous line there and have it continue on along the river to an eventual inland jaunt to York. This would cut the trackage rights issue to just the NEC and create a similar situation to the P&W in Connecticut (?). The NEC run could be offstage, in the helix connecting the two levels (shameless, I don't even have a permanent home and I'm designing a multi-level layout that could easily fill a two-car garage).

Although, the idea of incorporating the Octoraro line into the road and operating via NS's River Line sounds like a workable solution too. Just haul the PMV's ficticous line out of Elkton into SE PA, with branches leaving the line to generate extra trains and tonnage. I'm keen on serving the mushroom capital of the world, and my brother lives in West Chester, though it never presented as having much in the way of freight potential. I like the idea of serving Lukens in Coatesville, but may have to resort to transplanting it further south or maybe reviving York Wire into a larger contemporary player, to generate a decent level of metals ops.

I think I may be trying for too much though. Space will obviously be the determining factor, but I still need to figure out the core Eastern Shore to York line, make it plausable. York presents plenty of scratchbuilding fun in the way of industries though. And I have plenty of rolling stock in need to detailing to keep me busy. But I will have to choose either peninsula or PA and start with a module or two, or three, and wait for a larger home in the future (I am presently trying to determine whether to move back to Baltimore to rent or to try to live in Annapolis, near work).

Ed, aren't you reviving the NCR? What are your plans?

[wm3798]

Larger homes are cheaper on the shore, but basements are virtually non-existant.  However, bonus rooms over garages can be made very nice!

I've heard there's a real good residential architect over here, too... and he specializes in designing houses that fit around model railroads ;D

Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Yep, I'm planning on reviving the NCRR: basically, claiming that Agnes wiped out the Port Road, and left the NC intact.

[sirenwerks]

Care to share any other details, Ed. Time period? (Obviously post-Agnes) Interchanges? Yadee-yadee-yadee...

[Ed Kapuscinski]

You asked for it!

December 1985.

The starting point: http://www.conrail1285.com/news.asp?storyid=20

And then, basically, CR kept the line open and made some improvements, including a wye toward the south then in B'more to connect more directly to the NEC heading south. That's one of the issues that I think really kept it from being busier in its life.

I'd also plan for some MARC service, with bombed out heritage coaches and ex-B&O RDCs. I'm guessing service from Penn Station (or possibly further down the Guilford Ave street trackage, you know that big parking lot that's right across the street from the old Sun building? That'd make a decent stub ended station, like they did with Camden Station.

I'd also be serving the Sun Paper there via street trackage, and today I realized that there might be something to a spur for the bread bakery (although it's down in Fells).

Heading north, there'd be Penn station, then the fun that is the Jones Falls valley.
I'd tuck Mt Vernon in there, possibly with a few tracks in addition to the Flexi-Flow terminal. I'd want a passing siding or two there for stuff waiting to cross the NEC and get into Bayview. I'm also thinking about including a spur across the Jones Falls itself to serve some ex-Ma&Pa industries that are over there.

There are also a few older mill buildings as it goes north from there that I'd want to include too. They may or may not get rail service.

I really want to do the scene with the tracks paralleling 83. I go by that twice every day, and it's one of the reasons I've fallen in love with the NCRR. I'd also have to include Standard Brands (the Vinegar factory at Cold Spring lane), which will get a car or two.

Next up, maybe where it crosses Lake Roland on the causeway.

Then I think I'd want to do a MARC station at Lutherville, then it gets to the Timonium - Cockeysville Industrial area. There's an 84 lumber in Timonium, just south of Timonium Road. The tracks are also surrounded by industrial park from Timonium Rd north to Padonia Rd. I'd probably toss in a few industries in there along with a MARC station at the fairgrounds, the same way they've done for the light rail line.

There is then the quarry between Padonia Rd and Warren. I'd give that a few tracks to be worked, probably with a dedicated crew, along with another industry or two back there.

At Warren Rd, where the light rail currently diverges, I'd want to also have a branch split off and serve the industrial park back that way (there WERE a bunch of rail served industries on the spur that became the current light rail ROW after it leaves the NC proper).

There used to be a small yard north of Warren Rd. That used to be only a handful of tracks, and I'd probably use that as the main yard for local work on the Maryland section of the line. It'd stay small, but would probably be kinda busy. Right off of the yard is a siding for Maryland Specialty Wire, which just recently closed up. It'd also have an active siding on the layout.

North of that, the tracks would cross York Road, and head off into a much more rural setting (it's amazing how quickly the area changes).

I'll get into that shortly, but I have some stuff I should probably go do. More later.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Damn did I kill THIS one!

[keystonecrossings]

You asked for it!

December 1985.

Actually, I'd like the "Way Back" machine to kick him back to 1954!!!

[3rdrail]

I'd also plan for some MARC service, with bombed out heritage coaches and ex-B&O RDCs. I'm guessing service from Penn Station (or possibly further down the Guilford Ave street trackage, you know that big parking lot that's right across the street from the old Sun building? That'd make a decent stub ended station, like they did with Camden Station.

I'd also be serving the Sun Paper there via street trackage, and today I realized that there might be something to a spur for the bread bakery (although it's down in Fells).

I assume you are aware that the Sunpapers building is built on the site of the Northern Central's Baltimore passenger station? It was called Calvert St. Station by the PRR and lasted into the 1950's. The parking lot across the street was the NC Ry. freight houses, leased to Universal Carloading, Republic Carloading, and P&A Shippers in the 1960's.

The bread bakery was served by the Wild Mary. Don't forget, it had trackage rights over the NC to reach it's Hillen St. Station.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Oh, I know about Hillen!

I thought the Sun Building was just south of Calvert Station, which is now an athletic club:
http://tinyurl.com/2fytvq

I didn't know the WM served the bakery. How'd they get down there? It must've been awesome to see, but at least now I know it's possible.

I like that the space across the street was originally RR property. When did it get turned over to the city (or whoever owns it)? Was it before Agnes?

[3rdrail]

Ed, I don't think the WM served the bakery directly, but it leased space at Hillen St. for a flour unloading and storage area. I recall this because I got the flour from Buffalo routed PRR-Gwynn's Run-WM.

As to when where the freight houses were became city property, I suppose that was when the Jones Falls Expressway was built. Remember, I was long gone from the area by that time, but seem to recall a helluva fight between the PC Trustees and the city over the value of the property!

[sirenwerks]

Ed,

What time period are you doing this NCR revival in? If you're planning on now, the way Fells Pt. property s going it's almost certain H&S will sell out soon and be moving, so you could wing a new bakery facility anywhere on the line with direct rail service.

3rdrail, given your ready knowledge, do you know what the history of the cold storage warehouse on Chase St. (?) is? Did it have direct rail service?