Esu loksound v5 micro issue.

[Vaderta]

Did an install on a Kato F7 yesterday using an ESU V5 Micro. I believe the installation went OK but experiencing unusual behavior. The long and short of it is the locomotive becomes unresponsive.  When I was programming the CVs on the lockprogrammer I would be able to program a few and then give me an error message. Program a few more after closing the programmer and opening the software and same deal. Reloaded the sound file a second time and the same deal. The weird thing is once the locomotive is up and running as long as I keep it going no issue. If I stop and power off the drivers cab and then power it up again the locomotive will be unresponsive (sometimes) not always. Took the shell off and ran the locomotive back and forth while pressing on the wires checking for a bad connection and it didn't seem to have a negative reaction to that. Even rewired my auxiliary 1 to auxiliary 2 because function key 6 was hit or miss. No difference.  Drove the locomotive back and forth everything working good. Stopped it. Closed down the programmer and reopened, went to read decoder data and none found. Tried a few more times and then it read the decoder data and it operated again. Not sure as to what to try. Pretty basic install. Red and black soldered to brass contact strips. Orange and gray to motor pickups with kapton tape insulating against contact with the brass pickups and motor leads. Blue to 2000k resistor and positive led. White to negative side LED. Brown speaker connections.  And split the blue wire for a Mars light with a 1000k resistor. Only thing I did differently was used soldering paste . Don't think that would matter but throwing it out there. If anyone has a suggestion I am open to them. Thanks

[Vaderta]

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When it gets up and running it seems ok

[tehachapifan]

I have a few points or questions....

1) Is this is happening on the LokProgrammer programming track, the layout or both?

2) A common source of error messages while using the LokProgrammer is the program is open in more than one window.

3) There's one or two spots within the programmer where you can change CV's but they won't save without extra steps.



 

[Vaderta]

I took it my local hobby shop and it acted up there. There did a factory reset I think CV8 then it worked.

I change the CVs in the category labeled CVs. I read the value and then write the value wanted. For an extra step I write decoder data at the top tool bar. Before I programmed this esu had me update my programmer software

[tehachapifan]

I think where you are changing CV's, if you remove the loco from power and then return it, it will revert to the previous CV setting. I find that I have to change CV's in the "manual CV input" section for them to keep. Glad the factory reset worked.

[Vaderta]

Thanks. The reset didn't fix the issue. It just took it from unresponsive to working. I have it running on my layout now. When I hooked it up to the power cab it was unresponsive. I unplugged the power cab and plugged it back in and it responded to that. I have it running making laps. Going to see if it acts up while running. Seems like startup is the issue after it gets running it seems ok.

[Vaderta]

Ran the locomotive for an hour and a half. Functions all worked .ran it in reverse for about a half an hour. No issues. So it seems the issue is powering up the locomotive. If I can get it to run its runs good. If it is unresponsive I have to keep unpowering and powering back up until it responds. Will try it tomorrow.  Almost wonder if the black coating kato puts on their wheels hinders function until the wheels break in. This is a brand new locomotive and was never run. Just a guess at this point.

[peteski]

Yes, to me this is a typical symptom of poor (intermittent) electrical connectivity between the decoder and rails.
So, wheel treads, axle points and bearing cups in the truck, the pickup strips and the metal nubs on the truck sideframes, and the connection between the frame and decoder.

Also, which run of Kato F7s is this one?  Over the years, there were multiple designs of the chassis. Some have more reliable pickup scheme than others.

As for the metal blackenign coating on the wheels, The only prolem I have seen was Kato  GS-4 4-8-4 in te American Freedom Train colors.  This one had distinctly different wheel blackening that all the other Kato models. I had to remove it to bare metal to get reliable connectivity. All the other Kato wheelsets (Steam, deisels, passenger cars) have different blackening coating which does not seem to affect connectivity. 


If you have one of the Minitirx/Marklin wheel cleaning brushes, that does a good job cleaning the treads.

[Vaderta]

Yes, to me this is a typical symptom of poor (intermittent) electrical connectivity between the decoder and rails.
So, wheel treads, axle points and bearing cups in the truck, the pickup strips and the metal nubs on the truck sideframes, and the connection between the frame and decoder.

Also, which run of Kato F7s is this one?  Over the years, there were multiple designs of the chassis. Some have more reliable pickup scheme than others.

As for the metal blackenign coating on the wheels, The only prolem I have seen was Kato  GS-4 4-8-4 in te American Freedom Train colors.  This one had distinctly different wheel blackening that all the other Kato models. I had to remove it to bare metal to get reliable connectivity. All the other Kato wheelsets (Steam, deisels, passenger cars) have different blackening coating which does not seem to affect connectivity. 


If you have one of the Minitirx/Marklin wheel cleaning brushes, that does a good job cleaning the treads.

Thanks Pete. I have to agree with you. This is Katos latest run I believe as they are still available in the stores. It is a brand new locomotive so I didn't take the trucks apart to inspect them figuring it was new should be ok. I did notice that the blackening on the wheels is very heavy. They look like they are black anodized. I feel your assessment is correct because when it acts up on startup it acts the same way a locomotive would act on very dirty track. For instance sometimes when I hit F8 for the start sound. It will sit there for a moment and then there will be a crackle in the speaker and then the sound comes on . Only other time I have heard that crackle is when a locomotive passes over a dead spot on the track or dirty spot.Well I learned something. If it is a new locomotive run the thing on DC for a while before putting a decoder in it. Also I need to get a wheel cleaner like that. I believe I have some wheel cleaner contraption that I bought that was pretty useless. Think it has felt pad instead of brass bristles. I will take a picture of the wheels on the B unit as I still need to put a decoder in that. Then I will probably run it on DC for an hour or so before messing with it. Appreciate the help. Will see how this F unit acts today. Hopefully it powers up. If it does I will put a train to it and keep breaking in the wheels

[Vaderta]

Here is the B unit if you can tell what version of the F unit it is Pete.

[peteski]

Yes, this is the latest (current) run of the F-units.  It should have no pickup issues, especially in a new model.  I suppose Kato could have switched to the nasty blackening solution they used on that American Freedom Train GS-4.   If that's the case then you will have to clean it off the wheel treads.

On the GS-4 manual cleaning using that Minitrix brass brush was not removing the black layer.  I resorted to taking the worm out of the mechanism (so the drivers would spin freely) then used a wire brush in my Dremel tool running at slow speed. I touched the brush to the driver's tread and it spun the driver while removing the black layer. I did that to all the wheels until the tread was just bare metal.  That resulted in perfect electrical pickup.



There is a very easy and sure way to check for electrical pickup problem in a locomotive.  When the model is behaving properly turn the headlight on.  Then run it and observe the headlight. If when the model misbehaves the headlight turns off, an then it comes back on when the loco starts running, then the electrical pickup is your problem.

[Vaderta]

Thanks Pete. I actually bought one of those brass wire wheels that Dremel sells. If the problem persists I guess that will be my next step. I don't seem to have to worry about wheel break in because most of the stuff I buy is retired runs from Kato used. So the wheels are well worn in. I guess that's a sign to keep buying other people's used stuff for twice retail price   I appreciate the tips. After I put some more run time on it I will update this post and if someone else runs across this issue they will know what's causing it. I guess every batch of wheels from Kato can be a little bit different batch to batch with the blackening.  Maybe this was a batch that had a little more than normal

[peteski]

Thanks Pete. I actually bought one of those brass wire wheels that Dremel sells. If the problem persists I guess that will be my next step. I don't seem to have to worry about wheel break in because most of the stuff I buy is retired runs from Kato used. So the wheels are well worn in. I guess that's a sign to keep buying other people's used stuff for twice retail price   I appreciate the tips. After I put some more run time on it I will update this post and if someone else runs across this issue they will know what's causing it. I guess every batch of wheels from Kato can be a little bit different batch to batch with the blackening.  Maybe this was a batch that had a little more than normal

Yes, the blackening on Kato wheels does seem to vary slightly over the years, the blackening used on that AFT GS-4 was distinctly different. It is like they used a totally different blackening process.  The black layer seemed thicker than normal, and it was very dark (almost black). The finish itself was also different. It was flat.  I have never seen it repeated on any other Kato wheels.

I suspect that after you cleaned the wheel treads on your new F7, it will run reliably (until it needs a typical periodic cleaning again, just like any other locos you own).

[Vaderta]

Yes, what you just described is the way the wheels look. Almost flat black. When I used to build automotive performance engines we used to Hard Anodize the pistons. It made them more resistant to heat and also dissipated heat better throughout the piston. The coating on the wheels almost reminds me of that. I guess I wonder what the purpose is behind this wheel blackening.  It probably has a purpose, just not sure what. Definitely doesn't seem to be better conductivity