Would appreciate help with locating the LIRRIS interchange tower.

[Lemosteam]

The first image indicates the trackage rights, and the interchange tracks for the PRR and the LIRR IS.

I would like opinions on the four potential tower locations to help me decide the best placing. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Please keep in mind that on the LIRR IS to the right of the crossing, there is another switch and deck bridge across the channel that could be watched by the four sided tower that would be managed by LIRR IS personnel.



Position one:



Position two:



Position three:



Position four:



Any other oppositions that could make sense!

[pdx1955]

Positions 3 or 4 seem the most natural to me with  #3 having an edge as it's more or less centered in the junction area.

[chessie system fan]

So I presume this is a LIRR tower, not a PRR tower?

To me, the likely spot is close to where the red "PRR" box is located.  Or if it's a LIRR tower, place it an inch or two lower down so that it's on the LIRR main line.  This seems logical based upon the tower's line of sight but also the safety of the operators.  The locations in your photos don't look good for the operator if there's wreck at the crossing. It's too close.  Plus, at the red "Interchange" box, the operators would have to cross a bunch of tracks to get to work, which doesn't seem as safe as crossing, say, a single track.  Another reason is if the tower operator needs to give an engineer instructions on the fly, then that likely means a tower location on the main line, not at the crossover interchange spot like in photos 2 and 3.

That tower also looks a little small to me.  I doubt there's room in it to fit all the levers for the turnouts, a big board with a track plan, a desk or two, a restroom (this is a 24h operation, right?), and a stove for heat.  I'm guessing a location like this would need an interlocking tower with at least a 20'x15' footprint.

[Lemosteam]

So I presume this is a LIRR tower, not a PRR tower?

To me, the likely spot is close to where the red "PRR" box is located.  Or if it's a LIRR tower, place it an inch or two lower down so that it's on the LIRR main line.  This seems logical based upon the tower's line of sight but also the safety of the operators.  The locations in your photos don't look good for the operator if there's wreck at the crossing. It's too close.  Plus, at the red "Interchange" box, the operators would have to cross a bunch of tracks to get to work, which doesn't seem as safe as crossing, say, a single track.  Another reason is if the tower operator needs to give an engineer instructions on the fly, then that likely means a tower location on the main line, not at the crossover interchange spot like in photos 2 and 3.

That tower also looks a little small to me.  I doubt there's room in it to fit all the levers for the turnouts, a big board with a track plan, a desk or two, a restroom (this is a 24h operation, right?), and a stove for heat.  I'm guessing a location like this would need an interlocking tower with at least a 20'x15' footprint.

I like your thoughts on this. Only the one PRR switch is pneumatic (just past the crossover to the left, so it’s not really a full blown main interlocking, more like a watch tower. The track is coming downgrade from the elevated main (behind in the image) and is a managing only the branch line coming off a main siding from above. The rest of the switches in the area are manually thrown by the LIRR IS. This gives the operator only one lever to throw, watch the branch and other trackage and bridges, and the LIRR IS train switching crew would manage their own needs as they go about their business.

The LIRR Industrial Service (my layout name) is not really a 24 hour service. Up at the top of this branch is a long siding that the PRR will drop off cars from the main. The LIRR IS motive power will drag them down and distribute them to points unknown, and or the local businesses on the layout, hence the reason the PRR will man the tower with LIRR IS personnel. There is a PRR interlocking tower up on the main for the four crossovers, two on the main, two for the upper interchange.

You can read the layouts history and development here if you like. https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28266.0

Moving the tower to your suggested position also clears it from the local two-track roads, and I can add a driveway to it.

[wazzou]

3

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Honestly, I'm not sure there'd even be a tower there.

Once you get off the mainline, and out of signaled territory, switches all tend to be hand thrown. In situations where you have a LOT of them, you might have a switch tender assigned, but in a situation like this, with only one? One of the 100 guys on the train crew (ok, probably only 5), can easily get off and throw it. If they need to prevent the LIRRIS crew from ever touching it, they can always lock it with a PRR lock.

[Lemosteam]

Honestly, I'm not sure there'd even be a tower there.

Once you get off the mainline, and out of signaled territory, switches all tend to be hand thrown. In situations where you have a LOT of them, you might have a switch tender assigned, but in a situation like this, with only one? One of the 100 guys on the train crew (ok, probably only 5), can easily get off and throw it. If they need to prevent the LIRRIS crew from ever touching it, they can always lock it with a PRR lock.

But, but, but... it was a gift from Mr. Disappear, @chicken45  .  I gotta put that thing somewhere (read it has sentimental value)!

[Ed Kapuscinski]

But, but, but... it was a gift from Mr. Disappear, @chicken45  .  I gotta put that thing somewhere (read it has sentimental value)!

Hahaha, that makes sense!

[John]

Replace the tower with a Tardis then just transport a switch tender when needed 

[Cajonpassfan]

But, but, but... it was a gift from Mr. Disappear, @chicken45  .  I gotta put that thing somewhere (read it has sentimental value)!

John, I don't pretend to know much about the LIRR, but that neat little sentimental structure looks more like a Gateman's tower and to me looks out of place/scale at the interchange. And, its narrow base wants to be in a tight spot (personnel  safety be damned, per prototype of the era when built
Perhaps you have (or can make) a road crossing somewhere to accommodate it?

This is what you get when you ask this bunch for an opinion
Good luck,
Otto

[peteski]

John, I don't pretend to know much about the LIRR, but that neat little sentimental structure looks more like a Gateman's tower and to me looks out of place/scale at the interchange. And, its narrow base wants to be in a tight spot (personnel  safety be damned, per prototype of the era when built
Perhaps you have (or can make) a road crossing somewhere to accommodate it?

This is what you get when you ask this bunch for an opinion
Good luck,
Otto

A similar shack was used on PRR.
https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/pennsylvania-railroad-property-in-huntingdon-during-october-of-1965-shown-here-is-the-prrs-crossing-ga--7599893104825965/

[eja]

I like the warning bell on the tower post   .. nice little detail.

[Lemosteam]

John, I don't pretend to know much about the LIRR, but that neat little sentimental structure looks more like a Gateman's tower and to me looks out of place/scale at the interchange. And, its narrow base wants to be in a tight spot (personnel  safety be damned, per prototype of the era when built
Perhaps you have (or can make) a road crossing somewhere to accommodate it?

This is what you get when you ask this bunch for an opinion
Good luck,
Otto

@Cajonpassfan , Right, so not totally obvious in the images are three track crossings in the vicinity.  Perhaps placing it near the switch (orange placing below) gives it a dual purpose in addition to watching the three crossings (which will not have gates, as in @peteski 's photo), and is closest to position 3, seemingly the popular choice.