Kato F Units Parts - Help

[Shaggy170]

So I have an AB set of F7s that I am trying to make into unpowered units. They have the non-dcc chassis so they seemed to be prime candidates for dummies. While removing the motors and gears to allow them to roll free, I also messed with the couplers to convert to Micro-Trains as well. Of course, I lost a spring on the B unit micro-trains which went flying into space and the A unit micro-trains is not sitting correctly (does not line up vertically with anything). Even without the coupler problems, they don't roll very well and it feels like something is causing drag even though I removed all of the gears.

The easy solutions would be to get a new chassis and not install a motor. But, Kato is sold out of the mechanisms so I can't get the new ones and leave them without a motor.

I don't know if there is a solution to make them roll better (and fix the A unit coupler height problem) or is there anyone who knows where I can find parts to have a newer mechanism?

[Kentuckian]

I too have been experimenting with Kato F7’s. I have been unsuccessful in converting the old non-DCC units to dummies for the same reasons you have stated. My solution is to forget dummies and just power all the units. Motor control only decoders are not that expensive.

If you are interested in the latest DCC friendly chassis, a hobby shop in Maine and other vendors are selling them on eBay for a nickel or two. I have picked up a couple from them, and they are sweet.

[superchief]

Hey Saggy/ Kentuckian,
  You did not said what version you have (original, or revised) I wrote an article for Nscalerailroading #120 free to view online that breaks the Kato F unit down. The "blue box" or original run have poor trucks but the motors overcame and they ran, they do not make good dummy units. The second run or "green box revised" you should be able to pull motor and worm gears and they will free roll. You said you removed the gears you did not said if you removed the gears in the trucks. if you did and they do not free roll then something else is wrong. I have made about 12 dummy units for helper service is "needed" on the grade and have had not problems. As for the couplers the "B" unit and rear truck of the "A" unit take an Micro Trains #1128. the front of the Revised "A" takes a Micro Train #1159 adapter and i am sure these are no longer available. If your just missing springs Micro Trains makes a small parts package with many little springs. Let me know if I can help!!
                                                                        Gordon Bliss/ Santa Fe-All the Way

[peteski]

Yes, the original release had Kato "high-friction" trucks with inside-bearings, and possibly wheel pickup strips rubbing the back of the wheels on one side.  Those don't make very good dummies (even with the truck gears removed).

The subsequent runs have Kato "low-friction" trucks with outside bearings (pointy axles held in cups in the metal sideframes).  When gears are removed from those trucks, they roll very freely.

Either of the truck types can be easily identified visually.

[thomasjmdavis]

The 1159 may be gone, but the 2000-1 Kato E&F conversion kit is still around.  It includes an 1159 for the front and an 1128 for the rear.  Not sure if it is still true, but it also used to come with 4 toothpicks to aid in removing the shell.
https://www.micro-trains.com/index.php?route=product/product&search=kato+conversion&description=true&product_id=802

[rodsup9000]

  I use the old non DCC ready frames on my layout for the extra weight over the DCC ready frames. I can pull a 60 car train up my 2% grade in the helix with a ABBA set.

  Here is what I've done with my non DCC ready frames.
 First find out what trucks they have on them. Easy way to tell is if you can see the brass strips that the axles ride in, they are the ones you want. If they are the original style, then go ahead and make them dummies. If you have the revised trucks, install decoders in them. The "B's" units have enough space to install a decoder with a little work. The "A's" will need a little more work. I've done close to 100 installs on the older frames. I do have a mill so it was easier for me, but you can do it with a rotary tool (Dremel) and a cutting bit.


 I install unimates couplers on all but the front of the "A's".




























 I think I have 4 sets of frames if you are interested.

   

[Kentuckian]

Thanks for all the responses; Gordon’s magazine article was especially helpful. I have one pair of revised trucks that some idiot  cut the rapido coupler housing off of. So a parts order to Kato is in order.

[Shaggy170]

Thank you to all who posted a comment.

Hey Saggy/ Kentuckian,
  You did not said what version you have (original, or revised) I wrote an article for Nscalerailroading #120 free to view online that breaks the Kato F unit down. The "blue box" or original run have poor trucks but the motors overcame and they ran, they do not make good dummy units. The second run or "green box revised" you should be able to pull motor and worm gears and they will free roll. You said you removed the gears you did not said if you removed the gears in the trucks. if you did and they do not free roll then something else is wrong. I have made about 12 dummy units for helper service is "needed" on the grade and have had not problems. As for the couplers the "B" unit and rear truck of the "A" unit take an Micro Trains #1128. the front of the Revised "A" takes a Micro Train #1159 adapter and i am sure these are no longer available. If your just missing springs Micro Trains makes a small parts package with many little springs. Let me know if I can help!!
                                                                        Gordon Bliss/ Santa Fe-All the Way

@superchief I believe they are the old original runs. I picked them up cheap at a show after someone did a shell swap with newer SF freight shells. They have the inside brass strips which means they are probably the high friction trucks. So I made an oops thinking they were easy to dummy. Like you, I have so many powered units that I want a few dummies for extra "as needed" power. 2-3 powered units is more than enough for the trains I run and the club layout is flat with an optional mountain line that I could use. As I'm sure you know, SF would load trains up (both passenger and freight) with F units starting in the 60's. 5-7 units on the combined Super Chief/El Capitan in various combinations was the norm. Hell, the only thing standard on it was that the first unit was an A unit facing forward. After that, it was just power facing in any direction and it didn't matter if it was an A or B unit.

If you are interested in the latest DCC friendly chassis, a hobby shop in Maine and other vendors are selling them on eBay for a nickel or two. I have picked up a couple from them, and they are sweet.

@Kentuckian would you be able to send me a link where I could find those. I couldn't find anything on Google and the only ones on eBay that I found were priced so hit that it would be cheaper to buy a whole engine with shell and do a shell swap. I really want dummies since having 5-7 f units is way more than what is needed for my trains.

[Kentuckian]

Well, just to be clear I was speaking of the latest DCC powered units. This is just one example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kato-N-EMD-F7A-B-Cab-Diesel-Chassis-w-silver-trucks-NEW-DCC-ready/274630822040?hash=item3ff145c898:g:bYAAAOSwcuJfL3FH

I encourage you to read the referenced article in N Scale Railroading. If you are looking at brass strips, I think you already have something usable. Take the trucks off the frame, put them on the track, give them a push and see what happens. If they roll like a freight car truck, even with the idler gear in, that’s good.

[superchief]

Shaggy,
  Yes if you have the brass strips in the trucks ON BOTH SIDES you have the revised trucks (the best) if it is just a single brass wiper you have the original trucks.

Kentuckian,
   Save that truck you can modify and use for a "A" front truck if needed or parts to fix another truck if it breaks, Last I check Kato is completely out of the old revised trucks, they had only had a "grey A front truck" for the last several years.

Bought several for the brass strips and truck frames, like Rodney I have quite a fleet of the older ones and always looking for parts to keep them running. Since I do not run at a clubs / or shows any more and only run during operation sessions my wear has gone way down.

Rodney,
   Late Merry Christmas and Happy New Year sir! Hope the layout is progressing well! Were those frame you have already milled? I have spare frames I could trade you or let me know if your searching for something! I put your two "A" shells to good use! need to get back to KC for some train running!!!!

At the train shows you need to pull the unit slightly out of the box to confirm what you are buying, a lot of sellers do not know what they have (and a lot of shell swaps!!), if not DCC friendly you can usually get a good price!

                                               Good luck, Gordon Bliss/ Santa Fe All the Way

[peteski]

The original trucks also had inner gear case made from a pair of white metal castings - really easy to tell from the more modern trucks which are all-plastic.

[rodsup9000]

Rodney,
   Late Merry Christmas and Happy New Year sir! Hope the layout is progressing well! Were those frame you have already milled? I have spare frames I could trade you or let me know if your searching for something! I put your two "A" shells to good use! need to get back to KC for some train running!!!!

  Gordon,
  Belated Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too.
  Great to here you're getting some use out of the shells.
 PM coming on the frames

[genemaddox]

The best way to tell which trucks you have is simple, just look at the bottom of the truck frames:

1st generation "F" units-Friction Trucks- on the bottom of the front "A" unit truck frame w/o coupler will have this casting 17605A,the rear truck        frame w/coupler will have casting-17605B. On the "B" unit truck frames w/couplers, both will have 17605B casting number.

2nd generation-Friction Free Trucks, the front & rear truck frames will have an ARROW on the bottom of the truck frames

I hope this will help anyone having problems.  gene maddox