Atlas Trainman N GP15-1 runs good but noisy

[Albert in N]

Mine is probably mid-production being Item# 52608, Union Pacific number 1683.  I bought it at a train show about 2 years ago.  It has probably 5 to 10 hours running time, since I do own a lot of other locomotives, but no other Trainman GP15-1s.  It has a lot of gear noise.  It does not stall on turnouts.  I have disassembled it, cleaned, and lubricated it twice (sparingly with LaBelle), comparing with the parts diagram.  Nothing is missing.  It does not bind and runs very slowly, starting around 4 volts, but at 8 volts, it still runs about half the speed of other Atlas Classic locomotives, but about the same as my Atlas Master U-23B with ScaleSpeed.  The slow speed range is fine with me, but it makes more noise than any other modern loco I own, and compares with an ancient Arnold Rapido N GP-7 with metal cup gears.  It makes more noise than my two Kato NW-2s. I read Spookshow and feel it is past break in time.  Has anyone else experienced this, or do you have a solution?  Yes, I do take my hearing aids off.  Add that I only run Direct Current using an MRC Tech 4 power pack.

[u18b]

Beardenizing works magic when done right.

http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Bearingblock.pdf

[Steveruger45]

Mine is probably mid-production being Item# 52608, Union Pacific number 1683.  I bought it at a train show about 2 years ago.  It has probably 5 to 10 hours running time, since I do own a lot of other locomotives, but no other Trainman GP15-1s.  It has a lot of gear noise.  It does not stall on turnouts.  I have disassembled it, cleaned, and lubricated it twice (sparingly with LaBelle), comparing with the parts diagram.  Nothing is missing.  It does not bind and runs very slowly, starting around 4 volts, but at 8 volts, it still runs about half the speed of other Atlas Classic locomotives, but about the same as my Atlas Master U-23B with ScaleSpeed.  The slow speed range is fine with me, but it makes more noise than any other modern loco I own, and compares with an ancient Arnold Rapido N GP-7 with metal cup gears.  It makes more noise than my two Kato NW-2s. I read Spookshow and feel it is past break in time.  Has anyone else experienced this, or do you have a solution?  Yes, I do take my hearing aids off.  Add that I only run Direct Current using an MRC Tech 4 power pack.

 Beardenizing is one possible solution if the universal joint allows this.
Assuming everything is properly fitted and  Before beardenizing I would suggest try shimming the motor up with a piece of thin card such a business card and make sure the bearing blocks are oriented correctly and sparing lube the universals.  Make sure the trucks roll freely too.   Quieter down locos is more of an art than a science

[Mark5]

Louder than a Arnold Rapido GP7? That's LOUD! I had one back around 1971 and it was louder than a coffee grinder.

I hope the suggestions above help.

[Steveruger45]

Also, when making sure the trucks roll freely check the side to side movement of the axles and look closely at the axle gear to be sure it doesn’t touch the side of the trucks bottom aperture. This can be fixed disassembling the trucks and carefully re-gauging  the wheels.  Just twist and pull or push the wheels until they are in gauge and the axle gear doesn’t touch the sides of the aperture in the truck bottom either way when reassembled.

[Albert in N]

  Not louder than the Arnold Rapido GP-7 but almost as loud. Without the shell, it has no obvious rubbing or jerking.  Flywheel clearance is good. I will try the card shim.  Really, this is a smooth runner with plenty of pulling power, but noisy.  Anyone else actually own one of these?  If so, is the gear noise just the nature of the beast, like the slightly quieter Kato NW-2 or Atlas/Kato U-25B?

[Mark5]

Anyone else actually own one of these?

At least one other guy here has one: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47011.0

[GM50 4164]

Lol, thank I think .   Anyways, I've ran into this while working with these a few times. I've found the truck wipers are sometimes bent at an angle which causes the truck to ride a little lower, pushing the frame away so to speak. I've taken a small nose pliers and bent them down to more of a 90 degree angle which lowers the frame allowing the worm to mesh with the truck gear more smoothly. This helps tremendously!

[Lemosteam]

Beardenizing works magic when done right.

http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Bearingblock.pdf

Ron have you Copyrighted that word yet?   

[randgust]

The usual generator of excess racket in most Atlas mechanisms is the fit between the universal and the flywheel, too loose, too tight, or flopping around the bearings in the frame, you name it.   You'll note that the 'new' Atlas finally did away with that old-style universal and they are much, much quieter.    That's why "Beardenizing" works as well as it does, it changes the driveshaft to a single end bearing and forces the universal to be a bearing rather than a loose fit on a three-point suspension.  That's also why it never happens in Katos, or six-wheel drives because they don't use the same universal.  Ron's drawings illustrate this perfectly.

I've tinkered with all manner of things on that fit myself, and still have a couple old Atlas Classics that sound like razors while others are very quiet.  The variability of that fit and the racket results are really annoying.   You can slide the hex-nut shorter or longer on the shaft, shim it, loosen it, beardenize it, whatever, that's your culprit.   Add to that is the motor alignment in the frame, if it's in just a shade out of alignment it puts the flywheels out of square with the driveshafts.   You can have a quiet locomotive, dissassemble it and reassemble it, and suddenly it's a noisy one.   My 'cherry' yard GP7 classic is a honey, dead silent, and I've resolved myself never to mess with that chassis.   My experience is that about 50% of this design are excessively noisy and it's a complete crapshoot.

I had one of those GP15 chassis in a CF7 conversion, finally sold it because of the electrical pickup issues on those stiff wipers on the frame.  Bad design.  But it was quiet enough.    I bought two 'newer' GP7 chassis just because of the slow-speed motors and the evolved universal joints that finally got rid of those $##!! hex nuts.


What nobody had said is if they've tried transplanting newer universals in these.... I'm not sure if it's possible as one end is in the flywheels.   I can't find any decent photos of the new ones either, and I'm not about to tear one apart to prove my point here.

[martin station]

Albert,
  I have 3 of these and while two seem to be fine, the last one I purchased about three years ago has always made a lot of noise. I too looked everything over and relubed it, but it didn't help. Also like yours it otherwise runs good. I know I'm not really being of any help but at least you know someone else has the same issue.
Ralph

[u18b]

Ron have you Copyrighted that word yet?   

LOL

No, but I should probably file a trademark.

I only use the term that others have been using for a couple of decades now.

You know you have arrived in life when your name becomes a verb!

 

[Albert in N]

   Thanks GM50 and Martin!  I will check the wipers and where they hit the bottom of the frame.  This unit does not have the floating brass strips like Atlas Classics do.  This will probably help a lot.  Will take several days before I can tackle it, but I will respond on what I find.  Really, this is a nice prototype that we all used to see in the 1980s and 1990s.  Atlas painted two versions of the Missouri Pacific scheme (Jenks blue and UP yellow).  I plan on trying to get one of these if I find one at a train show or on line.  Atlas is to be commended for modeling the older B-B axle diesels in a variety of local past railroad colors.