Derailment on to SB I-5 in Nisqually - Dupont, WA

[John]

There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't. 

[mmagliaro]

All the RR stuff from the wreck is off the site (can't tell if the P42 is still on site, as it was always still on the rails) and up at JBLM. The loco got moved past here earlier today (I've heard rumors that the trailer with the Charger Locomotive collapsed a water main or sewer pipe along it's route but don't know if that's correct).

They're opening up the 2 left lanes southbound at 5PM.

Still no updates for my friends, they all still in the hospitals. The engineer's status of course is being held a tight secret. I don't even wanna post his first name here, as nobody is listing it anywhere that I've seen. I don't want the press to bug his wife, as she's got enough to deal with right now.

I 100% agree with your judgment here.  They have not released his name and for good reason. There is no reason for the general public and the media to start "piling on" the poor guy.  He and his family are suffering enough, I'm sure.  The media will skewer him alive, and if he is later found to have no fault in this, there will be no going back to undo all the damage they will cause to his family by their reporting.  He would get little more than a "whoops... sorry", which is little consolation for destroying a man's reputation.

[chuck geiger]

Sorry to hear that two of the three lost were rail fans on the trains inaugural run.

[p51]

I was going through some of my photos for 2017 and I found that I got a shot of the lead locomotive in this collision being delivered. Being towed dead with another Charger and sandwiched between a P32BWH and (probably) a P42, they were passing through Tenino, WA on May 29, 2017.
The loco in the derailment is the closest Charger (the white one):

[Blazeman]

NTSB Prelim Report

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/amtrak/news/NTSB-issues-preliminary-report-on-fatal-Amtrak-derailment--53604?

[Blazeman]

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/amtrak/news/NTSB-Amtrak-engineer-missed-speed-limit-sign-before-train-derailed--53777?

[sirenwerks]

Headline should read "Amtrak engineer missed signS..." And what about the engineer having had to make qualifying runs on the line before being able to run on it? Isn't that the point of those runs, so the engineer is familiar enough with the line to know when something's amiss?

[C855B]

I'm waiting for the headline, "Amtrak Engineer in Cascades Wreck Confirmed to Have Head up @$$." 

[Point353]

If a $100 auto GPS unit is available pre-programmed with the speed limits for the majority of roads and is able to indicate when those limits are being exceeded, then why does it seem so difficult, time-consuming and/or expensive to provide a similar function for railroad locos? Connect the warning output to a Klaxon if that's what's needed to grab the attention of a distracted or dozing engineer. If the engineer fails to respond, then the brakes could be applied.

[peteski]

If a $100 auto GPS unit is available pre-programmed with the speed limits for the majority of roads and is able to indicate when those limits are being exceeded, then why does it seem so difficult, time-consuming and/or expensive to provide a similar function for railroad locos? Connect the warning output to a Klaxon if that's what's needed to grab the attention of a distracted or dozing engineer. If the engineer fails to respond, then the brakes could be applied.

Sounds like you are describing the elusive PTC system. Or something with a similar functionality.

[Point353]

Sounds like you are describing the elusive PTC system. Or something with a similar functionality.

PTC is more elaborate in that it is also supposed to prevent running through restrictive signals and maintain train separation to avoid collisions.   

What I was suggesting was more along the lines of a GPS-based (over)speed alarm.  Three recent incidents - the one in WA state, the Amtrak derailment near Philadelphia and a Metro-North crash outside NYC - were all speed related, but each only involved the one train. Alternatively, our local municipality has installed solar-powered, radar-based speed indicating signs near certain school crossings. The speed display changes from steady white to flashing red when it detects a vehicle exceeding the posted limit.  Perhaps such devices might have alerted the engineer in those aforementioned situations and averted the ensuing disaster.

[peteski]

PTC is more elaborate in that it is also supposed to prevent running through restrictive signals and maintain train separation to avoid collisions.   

What I was suggesting was more along the lines of a GPS-based (over)speed alarm.  Three recent incidents - the one in WA state, the Amtrak derailment near Philadelphia and a Metro-North crash outside NYC - were all speed related, but each only involved the one train. Alternatively, our local municipality has installed solar-powered, radar-based speed indicating signs near certain school crossings. The speed display changes from steady white to flashing red when it detects a vehicle exceeding the posted limit.  Perhaps such devices might have alerted the engineer in those aforementioned situations and averted the ensuing disaster.

I understand, but he specifically mentioned If the engineer fails to respond, then the brakes could be applied which seems to go into the PTC functionality.

[Point353]

I understand, but he specifically mentioned If the engineer fails to respond, then the brakes could be applied which seems to go into the PTC functionality.

To some extent, but in the three incidents cited previously the trains were all on the proper track and no signals had been ignored, thus it would seem that speed warnings alone - independent of any other trains in the vicinity - would have sufficed to prevent or lessen the seriousness of those crashes. The full set of PTC functionality, which requires significant trackside infrastructure, would not have been necessary.
 

[Scottl]

My car can put on the brakes if it senses a collision and it can move me back into the lane if I drift.  It can operate when the lines are poorly marked, or in inclement weather, including snow on the road.  That is a long ways from the more sophisticated needs of autonomous operation. 

I much the same way, I think given the small number of operations (few trains), and a simple safety mandate like speed enforcement, Amtrak and VIA could implement a speed restriction system.  It would feed off of a simple track database linked to GPS of speeds to avoid over-speed conditions.  It could be independent of the PTC system as it is not meant to avoid train collision.

I suspect, unfortunately, the limitation is not technical, but rather, human.  Management, labour, or regulators all likely have a role.  Until they deal with it, unfortunate errors like this one will continue to harm.  I'm less inclined to take the train these days, as I learn more about how they deal with safety.