Cereal Box (2 axle versions)

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Years ago, one cereal company attempted to try a 4 wheel boxcar for cereal transport. I know the project was a failure, but never saw a picture of one of these cars. Anyone have a photo?

[Hornwrecker]

It was a General Mills car;  I think I remember seeing a pic in an old issue of Trains.  GIS only brought up pics of a Lionel version it.

[Mark5]

Apparently, Daniel has been wondering about this since at least 2006:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/FORUM/pop_printer_friendly.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=27887

I had no luck finding USLX 9090 ...

Here's the Lionel car:

https://img0.etsystatic.com/000/0/5812046/il_570xN.130148730.jpg

Mark

[nkalanaga]

I remember that one as well, but not where I saw it.

It's not surprising that it didn't work well.  American jointed rail track has staggered rail joints, joints tend to dip with wear, and when the car rocks, at least one wheel will likely be lifted high enough for the flange to clear the railhead, unless the track is very well maintained..  By the time 4-wheel TOFC cars came out, most mainlines had welded rail, which minimized that problem.

Many European railroads had the joints across from each other, like sectional model track.  With both wheels hitting the joint at once, any low joints wouldn't lead to rocking, and the cars would stay on the track.

That also affected overhead wire design for electric railroads.  Most European designs zig-zagged the wire, so it didn't wear a groove in the contact shoe.  American railroads generally didn't have to do that, as the locomotive rocked enough to spread the wear.  The Milwaukee was particularly bad in the last years of their electrics...

[learmoia]

I remember that one as well, but not where I saw it.

It's not surprising that it didn't work well.  American jointed rail track has staggered rail joints, joints tend to dip with wear, and when the car rocks, at least one wheel will likely be lifted high enough for the flange to clear the railhead, unless the track is very well maintained..  By the time 4-wheel TOFC cars came out, most mainlines had welded rail, which minimized that problem.

Many European railroads had the joints across from each other, like sectional model track.  With both wheels hitting the joint at once, any low joints wouldn't lead to rocking, and the cars would stay on the track.

That also affected overhead wire design for electric railroads.  Most European designs zig-zagged the wire, so it didn't wear a groove in the contact shoe.  American railroads generally didn't have to do that, as the locomotive rocked enough to spread the wear.  The Milwaukee was particularly bad in the last years of their electrics...

The 2 axle idea was tried with AeroTrain, Road Railers and Front Runners as well.. Also with limited success..

I'm curious why the Amtrak Talgo trains do OK..

And the Europe 'Thank you' Train after WW2.. did those cars move on their own wheels or were they moved on Flat Cars?... Maybe a Gauge difference?..

[nkalanaga]

The "Thank You" cars probably went on flatcars, as the couplers and brakes would have had to be changed for US service.  Most European equipment of that era didn't have center sills, so mounting US couplers to them would be difficult, and the cars all ended up in different states.  I've seen the one in West Virginia.  They were standard gauge, although the wheel profile may have been slightly different, and as far as I know could have run on US track.

The Talgo trains aren't 4-wheel cars, they're 2-wheel, which is weird by anyone's standards.  But that's why they seem to work, along with the track being better maintained, since they're usually restricted to a single route.

They have a single axle (if they even HAVE an axle) at one end, and a flexible connection to the next car at the other.  So, if one wheel hits a low spot, it doesn't lift the diagonally opposite wheel, which is on another car.

[cjm413]

The 2 axle idea was tried with AeroTrain, Road Railers and Front Runners as well.. Also with limited success..

I'm curious why the Amtrak Talgo trains do OK..

And the Europe 'Thank you' Train after WW2.. did those cars move on their own wheels or were they moved on Flat Cars?... Maybe a Gauge difference?..

One more oddball to throw in there:

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/other_cars/sou_cars/sou_number/599000-599001.htm

[Lenny53]

The 2 axle idea was tried with AeroTrain, Road Railers and Front Runners as well.. Also with limited success..

U/A Turbo Train as well

[cv_acr]

The Turbo is kinda like the Talgo train, with a shared articulated single axle truck between each pair of cars, not four wheels per car.