Classic Donner track plan - some info needed

[jgiovenni]

Hi to all,
first, atually I don't know if the layout will be built in the future or it will remain on the paper (or on the pixels...) for years to come...
At this stage, just trying to improve the track plan, so I want to share it and, if possible, collect any critics or implementation issue everyone will post! No fear at all!

Let's start with the descriptions.

Layout description
Location: Donner Pass, west ramp and summit.
Era: about mid '70s and early '80s
Minimun radius: 300 mm
Switch #6

------
Track plan description
Lower staging (still to be drawn): Rosevill, on the bottom of the design (under Summit!);
Upper staging (still to be drawn): Reno, on the second level, above Emigrant Gap e Norden
The main station on the layout will be Colfax, after that you reverse the direction at the bridge over the I-80 and continue as far as Cape Horn, where the tracks splits (old aligment is going on the perimeter of the slope, the new aligment goes straight into the tunne). A strong compression let us to arrive soon at Emigrant Gap, where you find the loop and the house track. Of course there is an active center siding.
Passed Emigrant Gap, the line will traverse some creek on massive bridges and enter some snowsheds. Well, here is a modeling licence: the line is reversing again direction ad emerging at Yuba Pass. Yuba Pass is something "specular wise" if compared to the prototype! Again a strong compression and you are in Norden, where the tracks split again. The old line climbing to summit and the new one going direct under the pass into the summit tunnel.
On the short (in the track plan) east side of the pass you can find again some snowshed and... Truckee (to be designed)...

Well, some questions about the plan: where should be located the snowsheds?  There is a strong compression, but I'd like to retain the feeling of the impressive climb to the pass!



Hope you enjoy, thanks in advance for your contributions,

ciao, Giovanni

www.plasticando.com

[jagged ben]

My first impression is: Wow, you've done a fantastic job on this so far.   

I would have to do some studying to suggest more specific snow shed locations.  There's only a couple things I can think to mention right now.  One is that on the upper (original) Summit Line you can have a lot of showshed, and there were short showsheds extending from most of the tunnel portals in this area.  Another is that the balloon track is actually a bit below Emmigrant Gap and if you want to model the well known tunnel under the highway it would be appropriate to do that in the stretch you have uphill from there.

Are you going to try to model the balloon track at Truckee?  It seems you don't have a lot of space but also if you want to model snow operations with the Fulda balloon track then you'd probably want the Truckee one, too.  Not to mention you can turn around all your trains at the end of the line.    I did a trackplan for Truckee at the club I belong to so I know the track arrangement there pretty well. 

[jgiovenni]

Thanks Ben.
Well, I'm going to move the ballon loop closer to the lower switches of the Emigrant Gap siding. This will allow a browser curve just leaving Colfax. The loop will be partially hidden, so there will ne the nerd forma a lot of pone tree to make a visuale block. About the snowsheds, I,m going to pur them on the track 1.
Now two questions: I wonder where the I-80 underpass will go and ... has  anyone a scretck of the Truckee station and yard track plan? I had the fortune to visita Truckee some Yeats ago (1998...) bit I was noto so clever to tale the plan in mind (and digitale photos were stilo to come!).
Ciao and best wishes to all!

Giovanni
http:www.plasticando.com

[jagged ben]

I can help with the Truckee plan.   The version I did for our layout is not really accurate to the real thing but I can make up a version which is closer.

[jagged ben]

Here is an aerial picture I had on file, from within the last 10 years.  Back in the 70s and 80s there was a few more tracks, notably the Freight House spur to the west of the station and I believe some more loading tracks for the mill.  The mill closed in 1989, if I remember correctly.

I will also try to post a trackplan.

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[jagged ben]

Here is a schematic of the prototype Truckee Track plan, including present day tracks and the Frieght House and south side industry tracks from the 70s as best I have been able to research them. 

The plan was done in XtrkCAD and  is NOT TO SCALE in any way.  However the relative arrangement of tracks and turnouts is basically correct, including which are the diverging and straight turnout routes in the yard.  The only thing I have not really shown is at the west end of town the tracks actually start to curve towards the south before the south auxiliary track rejoins the main.    Also there were probably some more tracks north of the balloon and also in the mill area during the 70s and 80s, but I've not been able to ascertain exactly where.

Anyway, hope that gives you ideas Giovanni.  If anyone wants the XtrkCAD file you can PM me.

[jagged ben]

The forum software seems to be downsizing the image for some reason.  Not sure how to fix that, the image is actually 3600 pixels wide but only 368kB.   PM me if you want me to e-mail it. 

[jgiovenni]

Thanks!

[Cajonpassfan]

Giovanni, I think this is a very nice concept, you've obviously studied the real pass closely and I love the low staging to high staging design. One thing that I would suggest though is that your radii are much too tight at 30cm or less than 12", especially for an 1980-era mainline western railroad with six axle power and longer cars. And therein lies the dilemma, how to squeeze it all in with more realistic curvature. This is of course a very personal decision, and my personal opinion is just that, an opinion.
Good luck,
Otto K.

[C855B]

My goodness. That's a lot of railroad. I'm also familiar with the area, having lived close enough to railfan Donner on multiple occasions in the 1970s and '80s.

Giovanni, I feel strongly what you are proposing is too much for your space, 4.5m x 4.5m, or roughly 15' x 15'. Now that I understand that the drawing is metric and the grid is 10cm increments... it won't work. You are allowing only 50cm for your aisles, or <20". That is not sufficient for an adult to move freely. Aisles should be a minimum of 75cm, and, as Otto suggested, I would target a minimum mainline curve of 45cm, and 60cm when possible.

The idea is generally good, just too much. My first suggestion would be to eliminate the "Cape Horn" peninsula and then move the "Emigrant Gap" and "Yuba Pass" peninsula to the middle. Then let's see where we are at that point.

[peteski]

The forum software seems to be downsizing the image for some reason.  Not sure how to fix that, the image is actually 3600 pixels wide but only 368kB.   PM me if you want me to e-mail it.

That is normal - anything attached to the posts gets downsized to 1024 width (according to  to conserve space and to make it display-friendly).
If you post it to the forum's gallery, then link to it in your post it will preserve the size.

[jgiovenni]

Hi to all,

thanks again for the contributions, I'm going to take some days to elaborate a new trackplan.

For  now, best wishes for a good new year!

Ciao,

Giovanni

http://www.plasticando.com

[jgiovenni]

Hi to all,
here I am (again  )

Well, made a lot of corrections, or I think so!
First, new layout facts:
Location: Donner Pass, west ramp and summit.
Era: about mid '70s and early '80s
Minimun radius: 450 mm
Switch #6
max grade: 2,20% (yes, this is prototypical!)

Lets start from the lower staging:


It's a compressed (very compressed) 1:160 version of Applegate flyover. On the right the tracks disappear into the non visible portion of the layout into a 5 track staging yard.

On the left, you can find the first switches to Colfax.

Track quotes are in cm (red numbers)  and are relative as they do not reflect what it will be actual elevation: you fix 100 cm at Colfax and the quotes will be adjust as you fix the elevation of the uppermost deck.

Here is the main level:


You can find Colfax, I guess it's the main yard before starting the climb to the pass. If so, it will acts also as staging for trains before starting the climb.
Out from Colfax, there will be the I-80 overpass and (new from the previus version) a NOT prototypical tunnel on the slope of the ridge before reaching Cape Horn.
In this version Cape Horn is something closer to Emigrant Gap. This let to put the ballon track at the western portion of the sidings and to use for the ballon the huge amount of Cape Horn peninsula. A portion of the balloon will be out of sight. The tracks disappear into the bush!

Passed Emigrant Gap, the tracks climb as far as Yuba Pass (track arrangement ad Yuba Pass are "flipped", sine in my version the mountain slope sits on the left when you climb to the Pass).

At Norden you find the turnable and the tracks split: the old #1 climb behind the turnable to the Pass, the #2 track and the relative siding is going to the new summit tunnel almost level!

Since the access to the room shoud be on the lower right corner, the first scene you will see is the old track #1 at the Summit / Chinese Walls / Snowshed location. In this are there will be a nod - under to acces the aisle between Yuba Pass and Nordern and another nod - under to access to the other parts of the layout.

At scenic level, the portion of the layout from the tracks emerging to Yuba Pass to somewhere east from summit will be set in early winter  or spring. I'd like to have some snow but not as much as you can expect in winter at Donner! Don't want to stop paying trains to clear tracks from snow!

To gain elevation to the uppermost level, track sits level or climbing (NOT prototypical... I'm afraid but there is no other way to reach a reasonable separation between decks).

The uppermost level is part of the east "climb" to Donner, Truckee and a scene down into the Truckee River Canyon:



At this level I found there is room only for one ballon track and I choose to design the Truckee ballon track.
To gain a continuos loop for operation, one of the snowshed covers a set of switches where the main line spits, creating a big ballong that includes Truckee and the Truckee River Canyon scene.

Hope you will enjoy viewing the track plan, feel free to apport any (positive, neutral, negative ) considerations!

Ciao,

Giovanni

http://www.plasticando.com