Solder Situation

[basementcalling]

I am puzzled and need some help.

I am soldering feeders to each rail on my track, weathered ME C55 with concrete ties and some sections on passing sidings have wood ties.

I have about 10 now that the red wire, and it's only the red feeder and not my white, has come unsoldered after installation on the layout. I am using thin solder and using flux. I tin both the wire and track after I file the track to clean off the weathering solution. I also lightly crimp the exposed copper to create a flatter surface on the wire (16 gage). A couple lose wires I think were the work of Catzilla, but a couple others have come off when I bent the wire to lift it up and out of the way on the lower deck.

I am getting tired of resoldering red wires. I'm not an expert, so I may be doing something wrong, but I thought I was following proper procedures. Why do my red feeders hate me? Any ideas?

[Philip H]

are you using a heat sink at the solder joint as you make it?

[peteski]

Are the metal surfaces freshly cleaned (showing clean bare metal) and fluxed when you are tinning?
Is the wire and track really tinned or is a blob of solder just stuck to their surfaces?
When the joint breaks does the solder remain with the wire or with the track (or some on each)?
Can you take a cloeseup photo of the red wire joint before and after a break?

I suspect that maybe the red wire is not getting properly tinned.  Sometimes batches of wire are oxidized or coated with some substance which makes tinning very difficult. Maybe your red wire is like that.

[ednadolski]

Exactly what kind of wire are you using?   Seems very odd indeed to have soldering failures that correlate according to the color of the insulation.

Ed

[victor miranda]

I am thinking;  tin the wire and then solder.

since the other color is holding, I am thinking something else is causing the issue.

plated aluminium?
the rail has a coating?

clean both rail and wire with... acetone. and solder with extra flux.

'tis curious...

victor

[djconway]

Sounds almost as if there is an oil residue on the red wire.(too much plasticizer in the red?)

Try hitting the copper with fine emery cloth prior to tining..

[Doug G.]

16 gauge for feeders? There's no need to use that heavy wire for that. 20 - 22 gauge would be much easier to work with and more than adequate for relatively short lengths.

Doug

[GaryHinshaw]

Good points raised so far.  Curiously, I too had a batch of red wire that was a bit harder to tin than other reels I've had.  Mostly I've been using 22 ga copper for feeders, but the reel of troublesome red was a silver colored alloy (nickel and/or zinc?).  You might want to just source another reel of red somewhere.

Other tips:
* I agree that 16 ga is probably overkill and that may be making things more difficult to solder than necessary.
* Clean the weathering soln off thoroughly, then hit the exposed metal on the rail with non-acid flux.
* Flux and tin the wire before soldering it it to the rail (with more solder).

Here is a good blog post on feeders from the late CSXDixieLine:

http://csxdixieline.blogspot.ca/2009/04/howto-solder-track-feeders.html.

(Talk about a life taken too soon.  RIP Jamie.)

[basementcalling]

Good points all, and other than the acetone, I've considered them all.

I am stripping the insulation off both feeders and immediately adding a dab of Flux and tinning the wire tips. Maybe there is such a thing as too much flux?

I wondered if the 16 gauge wire is stiff enough so that too much force from movement is transfered to the joint, but why only red wires then? Could it be because red is the front rail and white the rear, and red gets more stress if the wires move?

I'm anal about filing ALL the weathering solution off to the width of my needle file. The gap in ties is slightly longer by design so the solder will only stick to the cleaned area.  I don't use a heat sink. Never needed one on my track and haven't melted any ties yet on this layout.

I have not been adding more solder when I join the wires and rail, just letting the tinning do its job.  I'll be on feeder wires again tomorrow so if it happens I will get some pictures.

[peteski]

So when you tin the red wire does it seem to take the solder differently from the black wire?  You never said where most solder remains after the break, but from your description it seems that you use so little solder that there really isn't any extra solder.  Maybe the red wire wicks more solder up into the wire than the black one so the solder joint is naturally weak? I also agree that 16 AWG is overkill for N scale.

[GaryHinshaw]

I would not rely on just the solder applied to the tinned wire.  Use a bit more when you make the bond.  If you apply it to the underside of the rail, it won't show anyway.

[basementcalling]

I would not rely on just the solder applied to the tinned wire.  Use a bit more when you make the bond.  If you apply it to the underside of the rail, it won't show anyway.

Thanks, Gary. You got me started down this track with those damned invisible feeders and joiner less joints.    Not using the latter 100 percent, but it's certainly a neat look on close up trackage. 

Peteski, it's about a 50/50 split, or almost all on the wire.

[peteski]

Peteski, it's about a 50/50 split, or almost all on the wire.

I guess I'll wait for the movie (pics) before making any more guesses.  But if the solder remains stuck to both, rail and wire, then it seems that you might in fact need more cowbell (um, solder). 

What exactly are you doing to the wire when the solder lets go? Are you just gently handling the wire or are you yanking it hard or bending it sharply? Is the red wire by any chance stiffer (less flexible) than the black one? 

[Doug G.]

There needs to be a nice fillet of solder between the wire and rail. Not just solder between the immediate joined surfaces. I hope this is clear.

Doug

[peteski]

Black wire good joint - red wire bad joint.