Feeder for Peco Electrofrog (N)

[Black Diamond]

Hi,

Is there a way to wire feeders to the point rails of these turnouts WITHOUT using a switch or connecting to Tortoise? I throw my switches by hand.

This a crossover--the frog and stock rails are insulated with power coming from the stock rails on the point end. The layout has been up and running a few years with no problems but I wanted to improve switch reliability as cleaning the contact patches for the point rails has gotten a bit tedious.

I just want to drop feeders to the bus but I haven't gotten it to work. I soldered a feeder to the pivot pad of each point rail and dropped to corresponding bus line but turnout shorts when I throw one way or the other. I've looked at WiringforDCC and other places but I'm missing something. I'm almost certain it has to do with a jumper I'm not cutting near the frog but if I do that I would need another wire to a dpdt or a tortoise for power routing and I'm trying to avoid that.

Thanks for any help.

Jonathan

[VonRyan]

Technically the way electrofrog turnouts are set up, the point are supposed to provide the frog with power, but alas, this doesn't really work. Far too unreliable.
Your best bet other than slide-switches or switch-machines is to use microswitches mounted so that the throwbar of the turnoutwill set the microswitch's position, which ultimately will control the polarity of the frog.

Honestly, for a home layout where you can tweak and adjust, it's better just to use the mini slide-switches. Cheap and easy.

[glakedylan]

agreed....but:

if spring action is still working in throwbar fixture
the electric connection should be less of a hit and miss thing
it should be more hit than miss
if not, might it be an issue of keeping rail connection locations
at the throw bar area clean and good for conducting current?

fwiw....sincerely

[peteski]

agreed....but:

if spring action is still working in throwbar fixture
the electric connection should be less of a hit and miss thing
it should be more hit than miss
if not, might it be an issue of keeping rail connection locations
at the throw bar area clean and good for conducting current?

fwiw....sincerely

Believe me - I operate on layouts which depend on PECO spring-loaded points t power the frog (and the spur track). Even if the reliability is more hit than miss, whenever the miss happens, it is extremely annoying. Especially if this happens on several turnouts in a complex switch puzzle in an industrial area where I have to make couple of dozen moves to switch the cars to the industries.   Every time a loco stalls and I have to fiddle with the switch points, it becomes more and more frustrating.  What is supposed t be a fun activity becomes a major annoyance.

And the owner of the layout constantly has to try to keep the points and stock rail cleaned - creating another chore. Ever with clean contact area, the connection is not reliable. I suspect the problem is more at the pivot point than at the contact with the stock rail That is not an area which can be easily cleaned or fixed.

[drgw0579]

I agree with Peteski.  The points are not reliable enough.  Maybe initially and maybe if you don't ballast or paint your track.  My railroad has a standard procedure that any Peco electrofrog switch needs some external power connection.

So for hand-thrown switches, I've used microswitches or slideswitches,  and in some cases, Tam Valley Frog Juicers. 

Bill Kepner

[Black Diamond]

agreed....but:

if spring action is still working in throwbar fixture
the electric connection should be less of a hit and miss thing
it should be more hit than miss
if not, might it be an issue of keeping rail connection locations
at the throw bar area clean and good for conducting current?

fwiw....sincerely

Yes, it is more hit than miss, but when it's a miss it's quite annoying. I have a decent 'cleaning' system for maintaing a good electrical connection but was hoping to get close to 100% reliability without using any kind of switch (as noted in my first post). It would be nice if the N electrofrog switches had the same wipers as the HO versions.

It's amazing how quickly a good conducting path can be degraded by dust, oxidation and other environmental things (e.g. marine aquarium that shares the space). Oh well, is still fun to run trains so I'll just clean points before every session and hit trouble spots when they creep up. Perhaps I won't have the switch restriction on the next layout.

[kelleywpns]

Yes, it is more hit than miss, but when it's a miss it's quite annoying. I have a decent 'cleaning' system for maintaing a good electrical connection but was hoping to get close to 100% reliability without using any kind of switch (as noted in my first post). It would be nice if the N electrofrog switches had the same wipers as the HO versions.

It's amazing how quickly a good conducting path can be degraded by dust, oxidation and other environmental things (e.g. marine aquarium that shares the space). Oh well, is still fun to run trains so I'll just clean points before every session and hit trouble spots when they creep up. Perhaps I won't have the switch restriction on the next layout.

What is the cleaning system/process that works well for your electrofrogs?
Mike

[Ron McF]

What is the cleaning system/process that works well for your electrofrogs?
Mike

One of my yards has nothing but Peco C55 points, and as others have mentioned it takes only small bits of dirt, etc. to cause stalling.  I keep an old toothbrush handy, and when a problem arises it can usually be fixed with a few quick swipes between the point rail and the stock rail.

For more stubborn issues, a small squirt of lighter fluid on the bristles before brushing will usually do the trick.

I never use track cleaning rubbers, etc. as they tend to shed debris that can cause problems.

Regards,
Ron

[boisecity]

With Peco electrofrogs, the frog and both point rails are either connected the right rail or the left rail depending on which way the turnout is thrown.
The only way to power the frog and both point rails is to use a switch of some sort.  On my layout, with Peco electrofrogs, I manually throw them using a push rod which is connected to a DPDT slide switch. One pole is for powering the frog and the other pole is used for signalling.

John F

[Black Diamond]

What is the cleaning system/process that works well for your electrofrogs?
Mike

For preventive type stuff I put alcohol on these http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Microbrush-Regular-Applicator-Green-p/mib-mhr10.htm, then throw the switch so there's a little pressure on the applicator while gently moving it back and forth to get off light dust or other particles.

When that doesn't work or for heavier duty cleaning after a couple weeks of unuse, a Dremel with stainless steel brush (#530) and right angle attachment is used on lowest power. I gently slide it between the point and stock rail for a few seconds and that's it. It's large enough to fill the space when the switch is open that it scrubs grime and stuff from the insides of both rails.

Between these two methods I usually solve any issues with my switches and pretty quickly get back to running trains.

Good luck.

Jonathan

[kelleywpns]

Thanks for all the advice!  Have all these procedures been applied after track weathering/ballasting?

Mike