Brass Berkshire DCC install problem

[archangelo]

I've a Key Imports/Samhongsa brass 2-8-4 that I'd like to convert to DCC. 

A professional DCC tech looked at the locomotive and said that -- in his opinion -- because of the motor set-up, it was impossible to isolate the coreless Faulhaber #1319 motor from the frame, thereby preventing the installation of a DCC basic decoder.

It's a beautiful, smooth-running loco (2000 manufacture).  Any suggestions re the install problem? 

Thanks!

Archangelo

[mmagliaro]

I think you will find that the Faulhaber 1319 is isolated from the frame by definition.

I erroneously though that Faulhaber and Maxon coreless motors had one of their terminals tied
to the metal motor case itself, but that is not true.  The two motor terminals are in no way connected
to the case.  So if the motor is simple screwed or otherwise bolted to the brass frame, that will make no difference.

EDIT:
I just went and checked this on a 1219 I have (I don't happen to have any 1319's at the moment).
It definitely is true.  The terminals are isolated from the case.
END EDIT:

All you need is two leads soldered to the motor terminals, run directly to the outputs of the DCC decoder.

The rest of the typical DCC isolation issues still apply, of course.  The decoder can't be accidentally shorting
to anything.  Its track inputs have to be tied to the loco and tender pickups.

If you have a photo of how that motor is mounted inside there, I'd like to see it.  Maybe it has been somehow
modified so that the motor can't be isolated.  But I have a hard time believing that.  Motor isolation is
not usually much of a big deal.

I'm a strictly DC guy, but I repair engines for people all the time, where they want to put a decoder in their engine,
and it is not hard to isolate motors - and coreless motors turn out to be easy because of the case design.

[nickelplate759]

Building on what Max implied (he said he "checked"), this is REALLY easy to verify with an Ohm meter.  Attach one test lead to the motor case, and then check to see if there is a short between either motor lead and the case (you will need to check both). You would need to disconnect the motor leads from everything else (except the motor, of course) prior to doing this - but you'll need to do that anyway to install DCC.


You could check the same thing between the motor leads and the chassis.  Again, really easy to do.

[superturbine]

Sorry,

He can't be a professional DCC tech to think this 

[mmagliaro]

Building on what Max implied (he said he "checked"), this is REALLY easy to verify with an Ohm meter.  Attach one test lead to the motor case, and then check to see if there is a short between either motor lead and the case (you will need to check both). You would need to disconnect the motor leads from everything else (except the motor, of course) prior to doing this - but you'll need to do that anyway to install DCC.


You could check the same thing between the motor leads and the chassis.  Again, really easy to do.

Yep.... I concur.  And that is exactly how I checked 

[mmagliaro]

Sorry,

He can't be a professional DCC tech to think this 

You know... this is a good point.  Whoever told you this is so far out of line with this advice that
I would never let them touch one of my engines.

[delamaize]

Sorry,

He can't be a professional DCC tech to think this 

+1
Anything can be isolated if you try hard enough.

Your "professional" is an idiot.

[Teditor]

I have to ask a question, what constitutes a Professional Modeller?

I do a lot of building of models for others including DCC fits and I make custom decals and paint/decal special wagons, but I am still a hobby modeller.

Is there a university degree that enables one to be a pro?

Ted (Teditor) Freeman
From the land down under.

[havingfuntoo]

I expect a professional modeller would be some one who makes a living out of what they do, it is not just a hobby for that person, there is a level of mercenary in them.   

I also find them to be self proclaimed.

Is that good or is that bad? I some times find them to be like a parasite they sneak under your guard, offer you assistance then hold out their grubby paws expecting reward. Yes I have had bad experiences, if people are up front and honest then I know the type of animal I am dealing with and I accept them for what they are ...... I better put the brakes on this rant.   

It is said by some a true artist can not sell their work and will never be famous whilst they are alive, they work for the love of it, not the material reward.

Anything can be isolated if that is what is needed, may be your DCC tech was telling you there is a lot of work involved to perform the task. I have one of these models, I have pulled it out and checked it, it is not impossible ...... Did you place any stipulations or conditions on the requested work?   Was he placed on a budget by you?

[archangelo]

Thanks for the tips & observations, guys...  Greatly appreciated.  I'll have some time this weekend -- between TV football games -- to take the locomotive apart, test some leads with the Ohm meter, and then report back.

[jdcolombo]

The advice you received is flat-out wrong.

I have a Key Imports 2-8-4 (NKP Berkshire #779).   I have successfully installed a Lenz silver mini in the boiler for motor control AND a Soundtraxx Tsunami in the tender for sound.   It's been a few years since I did it, and I didn't take photos, but I did it and the thing still runs great on my layout, so it is doable.  Find yourself a DCC installer that knows what he is doing.

John C.

[mmagliaro]

and the thread drift commences!

There is no "certification" for being a professional modeler.  I would consider anyone who promises to
perform a repair service for a fee to me offering an
expectation that they have performed the service many times before and they are good at it.
There is also an expectation that they are assuming liability for the equipment they are repairing.

Let's put it this way.  When somebody gives me an engine to repair, I give them a firm estimate, and I am on
the hook to fix that engine, and not overrun my estimate, unless there are other features or repairs
the owner decides they want done along the way, or if there is some other hidden damage in the engine
that I could not have seen upon initial inspection.    And if I were to ever damage somebody's
engine, I would consider myself obligated to replace or repair it good-as-new.

I am not a "professional".  Maybe the word we're all looking for is "honest".   

[peteski]

LOL!

There was no "professional modeler" mentioned in this thread (at least by the person asking the question).    It was "professional DCC tech" - not a modeler.

I agree that a professional is someone who earns money doing whatever they describe as their profession.  But that can also be taken with a grain of salt.  Just because I sold few decals I printed, electronic circuits or model kits I built, does that make me a professional decal maker, circuit builder, or model maker?  Probably not.

I suspect that the "professional DCC tech" described here is someone who is in a business of installing DCC decoders in customer's models for a fee.