New C-420 Lights on, but no go

[Joetrain59]

Just got LIRR #218 today. Put it on track, lights go on, but no movement. Doesn't feel like motor is stalled, but rather no power to motor. Sent e-mail to Atlas just now too.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

There are these annoying little metal tabs that stick up from the motor to the decoder/light board. If they're not properly touching the little pads on the board, you'll get EXACTLY what you describe.

Those are the first things I'd check.

[Joetrain59]

Thanks Ed, Think that also happened with 2 C-628's I bought. But hobby shop clerk opened them up and fixed them. Said something about clips.
 Check into it later. Have to venture out in the snow now.
 Joe D

[Joetrain59]

Took shell off, spun motor by hand. Strange, it's a black motor, and poles are marked 1,2,3,4, blank, and a stripe on one flywheel all in black marker. Put it on track, and it's running. But headlight in opposite direction of travel does a lot of flickering on/off.
 Joe D

[peteski]

Took shell off, spun motor by hand. Strange, it's a black motor, and poles are marked 1,2,3,4, blank, and a stripe on one flywheel all in black marker. Put it on track, and it's running. But headlight in opposite direction of travel does a lot of flickering on/off.
 Joe D

Sounds like someone was experimenting.  Maybe the motor has a dead pole?   What you describe (in a DC loco) is caused by the motor being installed upside down. It has to be rotated 180 degrees around its shaft axis to reverse its direction.  The bottom motor pickup should be on top and vice-versa.  Lots of flickering could be caused by dirty wheels or other parts of electrical pickups.

[Joetrain59]

Peteski, headlight is on in direction of travel, and loco moves in same direction as other, set by Tech 2 direction switch. It's the "rear" headlight that flickers. But I will clean wheels, and track. Maybe loco was returned to major hobby retailer in mid-Atlantic state, and then sold to me as new??? Would like to think not?
 Joe D

[Kisatchie]

...Maybe loco was returned to major hobby retailer in mid-Atlantic state, and then sold to me as new??? Would like to think not?

I'd send the loco back. A "new" loco shouldn't be doing that.


Hmm... just try to return
a bad batch of termites...

[peteski]

Peteski, headlight is on in direction of travel, and loco moves in same direction as other, set by Tech 2 direction switch. It's the "rear" headlight that flickers. But I will clean wheels, and track. Maybe loco was returned to major hobby retailer in mid-Atlantic state, and then sold to me as new??? Would like to think not?
 Joe D

My brain wasn't fully engaged when I read your post. 
I agree that if this is a new loco, I would try to return it to the place you bought it from.  The numbered motor poles just seem weird (like someone was messing around with it).

Does this loco have a light board with capacitors on it?  Maybe the rear capacitor is bad" That could cause the flicker (especially when there is intermittent electrical contact).

[Joetrain59]

Cleaned the wheels, light flicker is gone. Have to clean track too. Frame screws were VERY tight. All is good now. Just found a Sinclair antenna in LIRR blue in plastic bag in loco box, which I figured had rapido couplers. Cool.
 Thanks,
 Joe D

[Joetrain59]

Steve Millenbach from Atlas replied to my e-mails. Confirmed black motor is scale "fast speed" motor, unless there's a red dot on it. Ad's say just "scale speedmotor" Whaaat?
 Joe D

[Cory Rothlisberger]

Steve Millenbach from Atlas replied to my e-mails. Confirmed black motor is scale "fast speed" motor, unless there's a red dot on it. Ad's say just "scale speedmotor" Whaaat?
 Joe D

All of our locomotives have a "Scale Speed Motor" included. When we changed factories, our new supplier wasn't able to order our motors with a grey casing, so we're back to black. There's no reason why we'd ever use those older, faster motors anymore.

As for the labeling on the motors, that is just from our factory using whatever process they use to test the motor and balance the flywheels. Most or the motors you see from us now and days will all have these markings. No need to worry.

That flickering you see is referred to as "Back-EMF" which is some electrical feedback from the motor making its way into the lighting circuits. I'll have to speak with our engineers about that as there is typically some circuitry in our light boards that is supposed to reduce the appearance of it.

[Joetrain59]

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us Cory. This is the first new Atlas loco I bought in a while, and guess first from new factories. It runs fine now, and rear flicker is gone for most part. Keep on rolling, Atlas. And may you and all your employees get home safe today.
 Joe D

[peteski]

Interesting info from Cory.  So, we can no longer depend on a color of the motor's plastic parts for identification.    This also seems to indicate that since motors are bought from external supplier, several N scale manufacturers do in fact use identical motors in their models.

As far as markings go, I often seen a pole marked with a colored marker, and putty stuck on the windings (I knew it had something to do with balancing the armature) , but I have never seen one with each pole numbered.  These kind of markings (numbered poles) are now expected right from the factory?!  That's good to know.


As far as the BEMF goes, usually there is a cap wired in parallel with each LED. It basically shorts out the voltage spikes. That is why I mentioned checking for the cap earlier in the thread.  Poor contact with the track (or any poor contact area) will cause the BEMF every time the electrical continuity between the motor and the throttle is disrupted.