Discussion: Is Rapid Prototyping changing the definition of our hobby ?

[jmlaboda]

I have followed a number of threads that have discussed RP products and their development and I believe that it will be a valuable alternative to mass produced models and parts since they can be done with considerably smaller numbers than a styrene car or locomotive, opening the door for items that would appeal to a more limited number of modelers to be done.

A good example is the thread on TrainBoard about "Printing a steam locomotive!" by mmyers5.  He has what looks like a really fine example of a D&SL 2-6-6-0 boiler that has been rendered by Shapeways in the FUD material that he hopes to eventually be offering for sale.  The boiler is suppose to be able to fit on a Bachmann 2-6-6-2 chassis.  For me, with some detail changes, it would be an ideal early articulate for some of my freelanced lines to have used, as they sought to develop better means of handling increasing traffic on steep grades.  It is a unique prototype that likely will never be produced in N by any other means yet it is hoped, by me, that soon a couple of these boilers will be in hand, awaiting work to create locomotives for my roads.

Another example is some turn of the century rolling stock that I have seen, though I can't specifically site where I first seen them (they are somewhere on the Shapeways site).  Very little has been done with this sort of equipment, largely because of the small interest base.  They appear to be better detailed than some of the cars made by Bachmann and others and offer modelers of that period a way of finally gaining cars that are reasonably correct (vs prototypically correct since roads bought cars from small manufacturers or built cars in their own shops, making it a bit difficult to really match the prototype car for car).  Some of the cars that are suppose to be available through Shapeways will never be considered for production by any other means because the demand is so low, but at least folks now have an option in regards to what is available because someone has gone through the trouble of designing and printing them.

As most have already said, RP will not replace styrene injected models, but this process opens up the chance that more unique items will yet be produced, and that could be a great thing for N-scale since it could open the door for the scale to have more appeal to a broader scope of modelers.  I love the idea!!!

[muktown128]

I have also been following a number of RP threads with interest.  I don't have the skills (or at least have not attempted to do anything in CAD), but can grasp the potential of RP technology.  I saw some examples of this several years ago and the stepping was pretty crude on the object that I saw.  Things have changed quite a bit since then. 

Anyway, I have also been following mmeyers05 "Printing a steam locomotive!" thread on trainboard and he is willing to do custom work and is soliciting suggestions.  If you have something you would like done, I would recommend checking out this thread.  I've already put in my suggestions for some PRR H-9/H-10 and M-1 shells to fit the Bachmann locos.  He mentioned that he is particularily interested in doing shells for 2-8-0's since he has a few of these mechanisms and will eventually do shells for these.

Scott

[rswinnerton]

I think that one day soon (less than 10 years), we're gonna see a shift to 'at home' prototype printing. By that I mean you'll go on a website similar to MBKLEIN or Walthers, pick out the model you want, select optional details, and download and pay for a printer file. Once youve got it, you'd pay a small fee per unit to print it out on your own prototype printer. There will always be a market for things like motors, DCC gear, wheels, etc, but the rest you print yourself. I think the process will be easier and you'll be able to print at a finer resolution and possibly in full color!

Consider how cell phones have changed the way we live in the past 15 years. Now apply that thought to RP and the model RR industry. Also keep in mind that an at home model like I mentioned above wouldn't just be for model railroading. Consider all the things around the house you could download and print.

Star Trek type replicators can't be far away. I think I'll see them in my lifetime.
Russ

[TiVoPrince]

Various  
music/video/game/software strategies seem the likely way this will go once that magic breadbox product begins to penetrate the market. 

Consider 'renting' the locomotive file and printing it as many times as you care to over a period of days, like a netflix/blockbuster movie.  Then again purchasing a 'five pack' licence of Baldwin S12s, much like Microsoft Windows software is also possible.  Maybe get an iTunes model that allows you to 'play' the file as many times as you like but if it ever goes wrong you will have to buy it again. 

The problem will be how to control the underground file sharing sites once the hot commodities like a GP40X or SW1500 hit the market and are almost instantly cracked for unlimited use.  Microsoft, Adobe and other industry giants still struggle with this, how will individuals (or small businesses) deal with it?  Once the production shifts from specialty shops to the home its hard to come up with a model that is both profitable and secure for the 'publisher'...

[Mark5]

I think that one day soon (less than 10 years), we're gonna see a shift to 'at home' prototype printing. By that I mean you'll go on a website similar to MBKLEIN or Walthers, pick out the model you want, select optional details, and download and pay for a printer file. Once youve got it, you'd pay a small fee per unit to print it out on your own prototype printer.

If it happens within 10 years, I think it (prototype printers) will only be available to wealthy (or demented) folks.

I hope I'm wrong about that! 

Mark

[rswinnerton]

If it happens within 10 years, I think it (prototype printers) will only be available to wealthy (or demented) folks.

I hope I'm wrong about that! 

Mark

Possibly, but consider CD players. This was a technological wonder when it first came out. The Sony CDA100 was over $1800 (in 1980s dollars) when it came out. In the '90s, you could get a portable player for under $100. The same will happen to prototype printers once someone comes up with mass-market applications for them.

[C855B]

The better and direct comparison is high-resolution laser printers. I was in the typesetting business when high-speed raster scan imagers were coming on the market. The two in the shop I managed cost $450,000 each in 1977, ate roughly $10K a month to keep them going, and were the size of four or five refrigerators. Compare those to the B&W laser printer you can get at Office Depot today for $150 or so, which is much faster, has 4X the resolution, immeasurably better imaging consistency... and sits on your desk.

Affordable high-resolution laser printers have been around for about 10 years, so let's say that the evolution from an industrial technology to a personal convenience appliance took 25 years. I see a similar evolution in 3D printers. The challenge here is, however, a little different, because the difficulty is not with the electronics management as it was with the 2D printers, it is with the media. I actually foresee the technology not progressing at a particularly fast rate because there is not a Moore's Law of chemical science. It is sufficiently advanced, however, that the next incremental improvement in the high-end devices will put the resolution:cost ratio into "serious hobbyist" range. As Mark said, within 10 years, but "affordable" for most modelers may be an insurmountable for maybe another 10.

Having said that, the low-end "personal" devices such as the MakerBot are already just about at a dead end with their extrusion method. They might get another clilck on resolution, but they're going to get nowhere near the magic 1200 vpi (.0008") that modelers are going to want. The extruders are equivalent to dot-matrix printers using a ribbon.

[TiVoPrince]

Expectations  
are that a childs toy series, like Transformers^(R) or some such that provided an instant gratification to children of frazzled parents will lead the way.  Spend an hour on Disney Channel and imagine how many of those items could be instant produced with a home printer.  Parents pretty much will buy stuff to satisfy thier little monsters.  Being the first on the block is probably not necessarily the driver, not being the last household may be the stronger influence.  How many parents might buy such a product to avoid the dreaded sugar cube California Mission dioramas?  Instant critters or whaterver will be the CD player that opens the floodgates of 3D home printing. 

Model railroaders will do well to form an alliance with automobile and ship modelers.  Getting those unusual parts like period specific Edelbrock intakes or Holley carburators without buying a plethora of kits could jump start this too.  Ship modelers might be interested in prototyping whole ships in small scales or specific items to improve upon plastic kits. 

Resolution may not start out to our standards but it will plant the seeds of the fruit we will harvest later... 

[Mark5]

We'll see. My crazy assertion is that decent 3d printing is a bit different than all the cited items above. I think it will happen, but not in ten years.

Given, I remember back in the 70s simple LED watches costing $500+ (not in today's dollars).

On the other hand, I did make "Creepy Crawlers" when I was a kid!

Mark

[robert3985]

First off, what IS the definition of "model railroading"?  Is there one?  However several items have certainly changed MY definition of the hobby.  The most drastic one was DCC, then DCC sound.  Although you probably don't know it CAD and CNC machines have also changed the hobby (and a much of the rest of the world of manufacturing) with much quicker production and finer detailed models. Injection mold making is not so much an art now as it was back in the 70's and 80's.  Let the robots mill 'em out of aluminum and when the molds wear out,  just CNC mill another one.  However, injection molding is still out of the reach of the vast majority of model railroad enthusiasts, although it is a very simple technology.

3D printing is making it feasible to satisfy the demands of small markets, which large manufacturers ignore because of the design, and tooling costs associated with injection molds, even though it's a lot easier now to make 'em than it used to be. Some manufacturers consider N-scale in total to be a "small" market and have virtually abandoned it. 

Because of the volume of resin costs, 3D printing is especially appropriate for N and Z scale.  Because of resolution issues, N scale has the advantage over Z, but resolution is a temporary problem.  One day in the not-so-distant future, 3D printing resolution will come up, and the cost of printers will go down and the manufacturers will make their money on the resins and support materials (sound familiar?).   Since HO scale is app. twice the size and four times the volume of N scale, HO scale and larger will never benefit as much from this technology as much as N and Z simply because of the material cost.

I remember the days when, as a graphic artist, I was required to know how to use inks, drafting tapes, paints, airbrushes, paintbrushes, pens, drafting instruments (triangles, curves, straight-edges, parallel bars, ELECTRIC ERASERS!!)...I worked on vellum, illustration board, matte board and cels.  Now, I use Corel Paint and Draw and a Wacom Cintique tablet/monitor and my artwork gets printed directly to whatever printer I wish and I never put pen or brush to paper...ever.  The end product is better than using traditional analog materials and mediums.  So, did digital software and input devices change the definition of art?  No...not really...BUT it changed the definition of "artist".

So, 3d printing really doesn't change the definition of "model railroading", but it certainly is changing the definition of what a "model railroader" may be, with a much heavier reliance on computer skills and design talents to make products with precision and ease that could hardly be imagined 10 or 15 years ago.

The change may not be very noticeable now, but it will be very noticeable in just a few years as obscure items come into the marketplace and the 3D designers/model railroaders begin realizing enough profit from their efforts to advertise in the major publications.

If you want a piece of the action, right now is the time to start honing your 3D modeling skills.  In a year, it may be too late and your niche will already be occupied.

Cheers!
Bob Gilmore

[bbussey]

Given the consideration that the majority of "N Scale Model Railroaders" are really N scale accumulators - if the advent of 3D printing makes it easier for people to actually "model" that's a good thing.  Unlike HO (or unlike what HO used to be), the demand for N products has been predominantly for a ready-to-run product base.  So anything that gets more people actually modeling is good for the hobby.

[rswinnerton]

And here's the mass-market application I was talking about.

http://thelook.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/06/11020541-future-of-fashion-3-d-printer-produces-stylish-shoes?lite