Duckunders...

[ljudice]

I've taken a week or two off from model railroading following my frustrating realization of issues with Woodland Scenics roadbed, which I used extensively with Atlas Code 55 track. After a lot of thought I realized the right thing to do is to rebuild it - but to take down some more benchwork and make this a project that is manageable. Another driving force is that my consulting business - which I do from home - needs more space too and despite some added space going on the house - my space is fixed to the basement only.

I think the best solution for me is to live within a single 23' x 12' "bay" of the basement. The benchwork is done and I can put up a partition to make the layout's island into effectively a "shelf".

But there is still an issue...  Duckunder - or something else. Something else has to be one of two things:

 - removable duckunder
 - turnaround "blobs". Since I am married to 24" radius curves - I can't see how I can
    get this to work.

I really suspect that a removable duckunder is going to be a problem (the way I would build it), so I don't think there is any alternative to the cursed duckunder.

Am I overlooking something obvious in layout design?

thanks!

[wm3798]

23 x 12 is a fair amount of space to work with, Lou.  While I can see justifying 24" r curves on the visible parts of the layout, there's no reason you couldn't tighten your belt to 15 or 18 for a hidden loop at the end of a blob.

Also, have  you considered throwing a partition down the middle of your space to create two "rooms" of roughly 12 x 12?  This can lengthen out your run and create a good feeling of distance as the trains go from one place to another.  It wouldn't even have to be a full-height wall, just enough to create a view block, and a place to hang some more shelf brackets for quick benchwork.

Lee

[NYC1956]

I have the same dilemma. Originally I planned a U-shaped around-the-walls layout - doorway centered on one wall - double-track mainline with turnaround loops in the corners either side of doorway. I wanted 23" radius. The obvious problem is lack of access in those corners. The only solutions I could see would be scenicked pop-ups inside the loops, but that limits what can be done with the scenery.
I have pretty much concluded that I will abandon the loops. Instead I will run the mainlines around the walls and past the doorway on a hinged gate. That also presents some design problems, but I think it is more doable than the loops in the corners.
The spiral-into-the-center idea (see post below) looks good, but since I have only about 13' x 13', it doesn't look possible. The most I can hope to add would be a small peninsula into the center.
--Mike

[cuyama]

I guess it must be that the issue you are having is with the existing benchwork and trying to reuse large portions of it. There are a number of configurations of 24" radius curves that fit into a 23'X12' bay, one of the simplest of which is this one without a duckunder or bridge.



As John Armstrong pointed out, a spiral into the center is often something useful to try.

Byron

[amato1969]

Absolutely.  After my 1st layout with evil duckunders, I vowed never to include them again (I'm 6'4").

If you use a "dogbone" you can also have some hidden staging behind a backdrop.  IMO, that's a big plus, with easy access on a single-level layout.

Do you have any sketches?

  Frank

[Van Horne]

I started to build what was to have been my lifetime layout (a couple of lifetimes ago!) with a duckunder.  I struggled with it for a year before I ripped it out and reconfigured the benchwork with blobs.  I'm only 6' and in excellent physical condition, but that thing was going to kill me!!  NO MORE DUCKUNDERS!!

David

[ljudice]

Thanks for the ideas and thoughts!

A couple of things...  Yep - I want to preserve the benchwork that's in place. The other problem is that the area where the layout is located is under the kitchen (pipes, etc...) and next to a section of the house where there is an addition planned). So I have to keep the 36" minimum aisles. In fact the main aisle is 42", I think.

I need to put a drawing up to explain the rest. Basically there already is one "turnaround", which measures out at 42". But it's on an "L" that would make expanding the other side into the aisle almost impossible and keep a 36" aisle. Another thing is that by creating a U I can more or less focus entirely on the side of the layout facing the center island and forget the other side. Given that there is only one person using the layout (me), it was a stupid idea (of mine) to expand this out into multiple aisle facing islands.

The complications are my own damn fault for overreaching in the first place, but it's time to fix them.

I hate the duckunder, but I don't see any way around it. I could make it higher - about 6" higher though, which might make it easier to deal with.

I will make a drawing and post it.

Lou

[cuyama]

Yep - I want to preserve the benchwork that's in place.

snip

The complications are my own damn fault for overreaching in the first place, but it's time to fix them.

You know your situation best, but you might want to at least consider whether keeping the old benchwork is a false economy. I've seen people go through months of gyrations to work around problem benchwork when it would have taken only a few days to tear it out and build a configuration that better fits the new reality.

[asarge]

Lou,

It maybe over-engineering things, but it may be an idea to have a hinged-access point that really is a drwbridge that drops at one end when you are not operating trains. One of the railroads that used to be in out operating group had a hinged drop point between the staging area and the railroad. When trains came into or out of staging, the bridge was pulled up and locked into place with a door hinge pin. By inserting the pin in the slot hinge you made electrical contact and locked the bridge in place. It is some work to accomplish, but in N scale it would be as heavy and iut would eliminate the duckunder.

[wm3798]

That's how I addressed my around the room situation...  A drop leaf bridge.  In retrospect, I could probably design my way around it, but it definitely serves a purpose and it keeps the profile of that end of the layout narrow, which lets the main part be more substantial.



Lee

[ljudice]

I'm beginning to think the drop-leaf bridge or related removable bridge is the way to go. I like the island in the middle - but there's just not enough room.

I still have to make a diagram and post it!

Lou

[Walkercolt]

Lou, on our N-TRAK layout, we have a "fold-up" pass-thru module without any overhead bracing. The guy who designed and built it is an aeronautical engineer, and dang smart, to boot. Sir Fig(Steve Newton) would probably share his design with you. It works, it's reliable, it "kills" the power before a train can get to the "chasm" or the "wall"(almost idiot-proof). I'll hunt up his current e-mail. I hate duck-unders and as I get older HATE "crawl-unders"!!!!(How come it's so much harder to get up off the floor than when I was 30?) :