What's the state of play for DLP Printers?

[Philip H]

My kids are agitating for a 3D Printer for D&D figure printing, and with all the good work here on sharing designs, I may well be jumping into the deep end of this pool.

So at the risk of getting my hand slapped by @peteski for lacking Google-foo, what's everyone's favorite introductory but good quality resin printer?  There's an Elegoo factory refurbished "store" on ebay that has prices for refurbished units that is intriguing, but I can't tell how good those units are.  And second - what do you look for in a wash and cure set up?

[Lemosteam]

Hi Philip,

A DLP (Digital Light Processing) printer is state of the art and still fairly expensive.  If you were referring to SLA (resin printed Stereolithography), those are older tech using an LCD screen to block light from hardening the resin, (comparatively speaking to DLP) and are available inexpensively.

FYI- ALL resin printing is MESSY and is not a simple process that can be quite frustrating for folks like me that are ham-handed.  Also the LCD are considered consumable as is the UV light source.  If both go out, their replacement costs are what you paid for the machine.

-My advice is expect them to do the full research before you plunge- this may quell their agitation when they discover what a PITA it really is.  The end result is what everyone looks at without the view of the work before the finished print. Just my humble opinion.

I have a friend that jumped into the figure printing/painting hobby with a 4K LCD, and quickly upgraded to higher screen resolution and he seems happy.

What Bryan Bussey' has done with his DLP is excellent for your needs unless the kids want to print 12" high statuettes. I think these are a very reasonable price (less than what I paid for my 4K Anycubic Mono, but has less print volume than my mono).

I am waiting for a DLP with large print volume, myself, before (if, really) I re-dive in again.

Good luck.

 

[Philip H]

A DLP (Digital Light Processing) printer is state of the art and still fairly expensive.  If you were referring to SLA (resin printed Stereolithography), those are older tech using an LCD screen to block light from hardening the resin, (comparatively speaking to DLP) and are available inexpensively.

Someone should explain this to the alleged Elegoo Outlet on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/386515578957?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=gworznris3c&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=s792mLu7ROu&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Lemosteam]

Someone should explain this to the alleged Elegoo Outlet on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/386515578957?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=gworznris3c&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=s792mLu7ROu&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Hi Philip, I wasn’t trying to imply that they weren’t available, sorry if it came across that way. I am surprised though!

[Mdrzycimski]

That’s a good deal for a DLP printer.  If you are ok with refurb then I say go for it.  It would make a great first printer.

[JeffB]

FYI- ALL resin printing is MESSY...

THIS...

Thread drift alert:

Just had a conversation with my model train text chat group...  A few of the guys were getting frustrated because one of the other guys and myself, who own 3D printers are not interested in printing freight cars and other long print run items for the rest of the group.  "We'll pay for it..." doesn't matter, at least to me.  Money is not the issue! 

In reality...  As great and helpful as home 3D printing is (and it HAS been for me), it's a messy, toxic, pain in the a$$.  I still use my printers, but only for stuff I can't do any other way, or for parts I can't get.

I hate to think 5-10yrs into the future when they discover some major negative health effects for those of us that have been 3D printing at home.

Jeff

[John]

Im starting to cut back on some projects as well and using styrene again.   But there are may things I still print.  Anything that need brick walls and also most windows

[Lemosteam]

THIS...

Thread drift alert:

I hate to think 5-10yrs into the future when they discover some major negative health effects for those of us that have been 3D printing at home.

Jeff

Ahaha!  Explains my mental state from 25 years ago when I had to wear full hazmat suits when I was being trained at 3D Systems on their SLA 500 and SLA 250 machines!  Trust me, these newest resins are NOWHERE NEAR the toxicity of that timeframe.

https://caeonline.com/buy/screen-printers/3d-systems-sla-500/9239767

[Philip H]

I’ll jump on my hobby horse here and remind folks that downstream toxic effects are about volume and cumulative exposure. Sure, constantly inhaling Floquil can kill you, and if the vapor is allowed to build up it may explode. But if you use it in hobby quantities with good ventilation and a respirator you are fine.

Ditto the resins, or so their MSDS’s suggest.

Now back to slugging out what we think of various printers.

[ednadolski]

But if you use it in hobby quantities with good ventilation and a respirator you are fine.

I put my printer on a wheeled cart that I roll in front of my paint booth whenever I print.  I also clean my prints in the booth (resin_smell + alcohol_fumes == very_noxious).  A bit awkward, but it does control the smell/exposure beast.  The only drawback is having to run the blower for longer periods of time when doing larger prints.

Ed

[robert3985]

"State of play" for consumer-grade DLP printers hasn't changed much in the last 6 months or so, and I'm not sure it will.

Although DLP printers have several advantages over MSLA printers, print quality (which is getting to be subjective) is improving at a very fast rate using MSLA technology, whereas DLP improvements are lagging.

The only two choices for home usage are the Elegoo Mars 4 DLP and the Anycubic D2, and both will give you essentially the same print "quality" with sharp details and new algorithms for blur & AA to minimize layer lines on angled and curved surfaces.

Prices being asked at each website today are $299.99 for the Elegoo Mars 4 DLP and $349.00 for the Anycubic D2.

From a build-quality standpoint, the Elegoo Mars 4 DLP is the better machine, with a wider/stronger Z-axis lead screw column, a larger touch screen, more metal in the case construction, 3% better light transmittance and uniformity, a metal resin vat, a USB Activated Charcoal Air Purifier, and a better UI....and it costs 50 bucks less.

The Anycubic has a 15mm higher build envelope (165mm vs 150mm) but is slightly smaller on the X-Y axes, and a conventional 4 axis build-plate leveling system...which is stronger than the Elegoo's ball & socket system.

Both have a Texas Instruments "DLP Digital Projector", which I assume is the same for both.

As an alternative, Elegoo is offering two MSLA printers offering the highest LCD resolution available at the moment of 18 microns, which translates to a voxel resolution in the resin tank of less than 52 microns, which is slightly better than either of the DLP printers' voxel resolution if I remember correctly, but DLP voxel resolution is sharper, even if it is a bit lower.

Since this thread is about DLP printers, all I'll say about the two Elegoo MSLA printers is their name and price...the Elegoo Mars 4 Ultra 9k at $309 (with all the bells & whistles), and the Elegoo Mars 4 9k at $259 which prints just as well, but is a basic machine.  One of our railwire members purchased the Elegoo Mars 4 9k for $189 on a flash sale at Amazon in the last five days...so, shop around.

As MSLA resolution becomes better, the printing advantages of DLP pinters is becoming less and less.  However, if having a printer that doesn't have print quality degrade over time is important, then the DLP printers have a huge advantage over MSLA printers with their claimed 20,000+ hours of usage life.

If larger print envelope size, print speed, and bells & whistles are important to you, then it is a good idea to look into the latest MSLA machines, and live with a usage life of around 2,000 hours...then replace the screen.

As far as resin toxicity is concerned, since I'm 74 years old, I'm not too concerned about long-term effects.  However, to lessen the fumes/smell, my printers are adjacent to my spray booth, and I turn on my booth when printing.  That, along with the activated charcoal air purifiers in my latest printer, greatly reduces the bad odor.

However, I am very careful about not getting any resin on my bare skin and I've developed methods and designated areas for handling uncured resin and uncured parts, as well as cleaning my printers.  I have a couple of wash & cure stations, along with extra IPA buckets for them...and these greatly increase the efficiency of safely handling uncured resin.

Resin printing certainly CAN be sloppy, but I don't find it to be excessively so. 

If you're serious about your 3D resin printing, then biting the bullet and venting your work area to the outside is the way to go, and well worth the cost and effort to do it.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

 

[JMaurer1]

Even though I didn't ask the question, I really appreciate Roberts in depth response. Thank you, Robert.