FLEISCHMANN steam loco with stuck axles

[Maletrain]

A member of our club asked me to look at a Fleischmann N scale model of a European prototype 4-6-0 to see if it would "run" - he thought that it would not and wondered why. 

I found that its motor is in the tender, and drives only the tender wheels, one set of which has traction tires.  That part of the model works well on DC.

The "drivers" on the locomotive are not linked to the motor at all, and are apparently supposed to be moved, along with their attached valve gear, by friction with the rails.  But, they don't move at all.

I checked for binding in the valve gear, and there is none.  The problem is that 2 of the 3 the axles with the drivers on them do not rotate in the loco frame.  The meager instructions in the jewel case say to lubricate those axles "sparingly" with "Fleischmann lubricating oil" and "never vegetable oil", so I tried to free up the stuck axles with tiny amounts of Inox MX3.  The result was that I could budge the wheels a bit by putting sharp pointed tweezers in the spokes to put some torque on them, but I could not get them very loose, and am not sure whether the axles are moving in the frame or the wheels are moving on the axles, or both.

I had taken the shell and the bottom plate off the loco, only to find that the axles seem to go through holes drilled in a solid frame that I cannot split apart to free the axles.  It looks to me like this model was assembled by inserting the axles into drilled holes in the frame and then pressing the drivers on the ends of the axles.

The frame is all painted where I can see it, but I expect it is made of some Zamak alloy.  So, the tight axles may be the victims of "zinc pest" rather than dried lube of some sort.  It is strange that the front and rear axles were stuck tight while the center axle is quite loose.

Other than the stuck axles, the model seems to be in good shape, although not something I am personally interested in.  The owner told me to "keep it or trash it", and I am not inclined to spend a lot of my model time on something I don't want anyway.

But, I thought that I would post this on TRW and see if anybody has some good ideas that eluded me.  I am not familiar with Fleischmann products at all.

[nkalanaga]

The center driver might have a larger hole, to allow for some lateral movement, to better handle sharp curves.  Other than that I have no idea why it would be looser.

[mmagliaro]

I found a description of your problem on another forum.  I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting a link to the
subject thread here.
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/72166-fleischmann-locos-with-stuck-wheels/

He went pretty hard-core to fix it. He pulled one driver off the axle so he could pull the axle out, and then cleaned the axle and bearings with "meths" (denatured alcohol).  Maybe you can just dab some down into the bearings where the axle goes through with a small brush, and get lucky enough to unstick the axles.

Here's another description of the same problem with a similar fix.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/germanrailfr/driving-wheel-quartering-on-a-fleischmann-n-gauge--t3033.html

Pulling the driver so you can really get the axle and bearing clean sounds like the way to really fix this.  But you will have to get that driver back on, properly quartered.  At least these aren't driven or geared drivers.  Since they just have to free-roll, the demands on them to not slip on their axles are small.

[Maletrain]

Max, Thanks for your research effort.  The results seem to indicate that the basic problem is congealed lubricant, not rotted Zamak frame, and is repairable.  Good to know.

The owner does not seem very interested in this locomotive, and I am not interested enough in it to give it any priority in my very long to-do list.  So, I will just keep it until somebody shows enough interest in it to try to get it running.  I might end up repurposing the tender drive, which runs well.

This experience does reinforce my misgivings about "lubricating" N scale locomotives.  I have been thinking about using Inox MX3, which I use a lot for other purposes, on my N scale stuff.  It does not congeal, ever.  And it is slick.  It is supposed to be "plastic compatible". but, considering how many types of plastic there are, I am worried about plastic drive gear cracking.  The only caution on the can is about "long term use may degrade some natural rubber products". Does anybody here have any experience with Inox MX3 on locomotive gears?

[mmagliaro]

I have zero experience with Inox MX3.  But my experience with N Scale locos is that the only time I have seen axles or gears stuck from old lubricant, it's from some sort of "goo" applied at the factory (like the heavy white gunk that plagues old Rivarossi Challengers and Big Boys).  I think the light machine oils we tend to use (i.e. LaBelle) aren't going to cause problems like this.

[Maletrain]

I know the MX3 won't harden (or evaporate), but I'm worried about plastic gear cracking from lubricant-induced swelling.  So, I am looking for somebody who has put MX3 on their loco drive gears maybe 10 years ago, and is still happy.

[christoph]

The problem of stuck Fleischmann axles is "famous" (or notorious) in German train forums.  It regularly appears in the "1zu160.net" forum, which I frequent on a regular basis.  But this forum is only in German 

As already described, the drive is in the tender and the "drivers" of the engines are mounted in metal frames.  They seem to have used some lubricant that hardens over time and causes blocking the drivers.  This problem is special to Fleischmann engines with tender drives,  I don't remember that it occurred at Minitrix steamers with tender drives.

I had this problem only once so far on a 2-8-0,  and had it fixed by my favorite hobbyshop.  Since I run my engines infrequently, some hidden surprises may occur.

Greetings from Germany, and have a nice weekend,
Christoph

[peteski]

I too have few older Flesichman tender-drive with frozen driver axles.  Dried up lubricant is the cause. Haven't tried anything on them yet, but my plan is to dunk the frame in ultrasonic cleaner filled with Naphtha.

Once the axles are free and frame is dried, I'll just use some light oil to lubricate the axles.