Amtrak Heritage Fleet Coaches?

[Sokramiketes]

Ahhh, this helps me contribute, now that I know what you're looking for.  See my notes for matching N scale models below:

These cars were converted to HEP in 1980 for the Broadway Limited (I found this on the internet somewhere in the past - sorry for the lack of credit!)

Converted 68 Cars for Long Distance Service on the Broadway Limited - Cars Converted 1980 (= converted to HEP)

Car Series Car Type Builder Total Heritage Service Status
1155 ~ 1158 Baggage ACF 4 PC-NYC Broadway LTD HEP  (closest is RailSmith baggage car)
1614 ~ 1617 Baggage Dorm SLC 4 US ARMY Broadway LTD HEP 
2080 ~ 2088 Slumber-Coach Budd 9 BN-NP&CBQ Broadway LTD HEP  (Kato car, has full skirts for CBQ heritage cars, can cut skirts off for NP)
2884 ~ 2894 Sleeper 10-6 Budd 11 UP Broadway LTD HEP (Kato UP 10-6 Budd car.  Notable for not having full skirts and having a full smooth letterboard across the car)
3106 ~ 3111 Lounge Budd 6 ATSF Broadway LTD HEP
4700 ~ 4729 Coach 48 Seat Budd 30 ATSF Broadway LTD HEP (ConCor car, notable for the large windows, with a mullion in the middle.  You can spot these from a distance)
8505 ~ 8508 Diner Budd 4 BN-CBQ&NP Broadway LTD HEP (M&R did etched sides for these diners.  I guess for now you could slab side a Concor Budd diner)

[Ed Kapuscinski]

So what am I trying to do? Get "close". I'm already playing plenty fast and loose with reality on the layout. My goal is to make it look believable and interesting. That's why I'm looking for a heritage fleet car instead of the Amfleets I'm currently using for the job.

In the past I had been doing December of 85, but now I'm aiming for earlier, generally "late 70s". The fact that the Broadway was converted to HEP in 80 definitely makes it more interesting.

Thanks for all the info so far!

[davefoxx]

In the past I had been doing December of 85, but now I'm aiming for earlier, generally "late 70s". The fact that the Broadway was converted to HEP in 80 definitely makes it more interesting.

Ed,

According to an article in the January 2023 issue of Trains magazine, “Amfleet started arriving in 1975, and by January 1977, 396 Amfleet cars were on the property.”  Note that those included Amfleet I coaches, which were mostly designed for short distance service but did end up on certain long distance trains due to harsh winters in the late 70s.  Amfleet II cars (for long-distance service) didn’t arrive until 1980.  It is very likely that if there were Amtrak service on the Northern Central in the late 1970s, those trains would use heritage fleet equipment, i.e., steam-heated.

Don’t forget to use appropriate motive power for those steam-heated trains.  No F40PHs (unless you have a steam generator car).

Hope this helps,
DFF

[nkalanaga]

The Empire Builder had F40s by summer 1978, and, yes, they had to have steam generator cars.  Sometimes it was the ex-GN F B-unit cars, but more often it was a converted E-unit.  The ugliest were the E A-units with the cab windows plated over.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ed,

According to an article in the January 2023 issue of Trains magazine, “Amfleet started arriving in 1975, and by January 1977, 396 Amfleet cars were on the property.”  Note that those included Amfleet I coaches, which were mostly designed for short distance service but did end up on certain long distance trains due to harsh winters in the late 70s.  Amfleet II cars (for long-distance service) didn’t arrive until 1980.  It is very likely that if there were Amtrak service on the Northern Central in the late 1970s, those trains would use heritage fleet equipment, i.e., steam-heated.

Don’t forget to use appropriate motive power for those steam-heated trains.  No F40PHs (unless you have a steam generator car).

Hope this helps,
DFF

Well, my thinking has been that it's a combination: the daily DC<=>Buffalo train gets "new" Amfleet equipment while the DC Broadway section gets Heritage fleet and an SDP40. The SDP is the perfect unit for an NC connection since by 78 many roads had slapped a 45mph speed restriction on them and there's not much NC where you can do much more than that anyway. It also gives me an excuse for a future clapped out E unit too.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

While I have you, Ed, are the cars that you are using for your Parkton Local the B-mann, MT or BLI?  The MT is based on a B&O HW but it is pretty close to the BLI.  The BLI does appear to be about two to three scale feet longer than the MT.  The B-mann is almost identical to the MT.  One difference that you notice immediately is that while the MT does have a one piece window on the doors, the B-mann and BLI have split windows on their doors.  This is in keeping with B&O and Penn practice, respectively.  Some have mentioned that the B-mann is based on a Penn coach.  It is possible that the prototypes do have a common origin as the Penn did control the B&O for a brief period in the very late nineteenth and very early twentieth centuries.

Sorry I didn't reply yesterday.

I'm using the Micro-Trains cars because... well, they exist! I thought the Penn Central set was pretty and got it. Then I had to figure out what to do with it. The reborn Parkton Local is perfect: a service the railroad is obligated to run (as a condition of taking Maryland's money to rebuild the NC) but has no desire to spend a cent that they don't have to on.

[bbussey]

Hopefully MTL will release the single window coach in PC, as that would be prototypical.

I have a gutted Kato B unit that will be converted into a steam generator car for one of my consists.  But I'm Northeast Corridor in 1980 and I'm using Amfleet coaches with Heritage baggages, sleepers and diners.  The baggage cars were easy because Kato has three or four prototypes that they've painted in Amtrak III.  Sleepers next easiest, because they've also painted a number of their Heritage-type sleepers in Amtrak I.  Diners took a little more effort.  I detailed an original Kato smoothside diner, which is a UP prototype, to match the Amtrak I appearance.  I poached and modified a Cal Zephyr diner from the Amtrak four-pack and another from the SW Limited set I think.  The Slumbercoach was heavily modified with skirts removed, beefed-up underbody appliances, new trucks, new stirrups/grabs and painted Amtrak III.

I still have to finish a pair of AEM-7 electrics, as well as the experimental X-800(?) unit (which fortunately is just a repaint of the Fleischmann model with Americanized ends).

[brokemoto]

Sorry I didn't reply yesterday.

No big deal.  I had assumed that you would get to it, eventually.   

I'm using the Micro-Trains cars because... well, they exist! I thought the Penn Central set was pretty and got it.

I did not know that MT had  a special PC set.  The two green PC coaches and one still red Penn coach makes sense even that late as do two in balloon and one with the clerestory still in place.  In the early "Rainbow" era, AMTRAK was running both green P-70s in PC lettering and red in PRR lettering.  PC, in the last years before AMTRAK was running both on  intercity trains, , as well.

 The only MT Penn passenger car that I have is a baggage.  I did buy two BLI P-70s (and one Kato smoothside Pullman in Penn).  I do not have the B-mann in Penn, just Ma and Pa, undecorated and B&O.  I was more curious because you did mention swapping in balloon roofs, so I wanted to see which ones they fit.  As the BLI are slightly longer, they will not fit them.  I am simply trying to make them look more "Penn".

The Hellgate B-60 kits are hard to find, so I wanted to try to put a balloon roof on the MT baggage and portholes on the doors.  Sadly, I am not aware of any balloon roofs out there for the MT baggage.  The porthole on the existing doors is less a problem to do.

Thanks for the update.


 Then I had to figure out what to do with it. The reborn Parkton Local is perfect: a service the railroad is obligated to run (as a condition of taking Maryland's money to rebuild the NC) but has no desire to spend a cent that they don't have to on.
[/quote]

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I did not know that MT had  a special PC set.  The two green PC coaches and one still red Penn coach makes sense even that late as do two in balloon and one with the clerestory still in place.  In the early "Rainbow" era, AMTRAK was running both green P-70s in PC lettering and red in PRR lettering.  PC, in the last years before AMTRAK was running both on  intercity trains, , as well.

Yep!

https://www.trovestar.com/generic/zoom.php?id=145093

The PRR car is a later MTL release with a Keystone Details balloon roof. I've got another Pennsy car too that hasn't joined the operational fleet yet.

[bbunge]

National Limited pulling into Columbus, Ohio in the summer of 1979 at about 2am.  Pulls past the station, switches tracks to back into the platform for the "Amshack" station.

http://www.ladyandtramp.com/photos/d/239330-2/db-2-amtrak.jpg

Backing into the station:

http://www.ladyandtramp.com/photos/d/239323-2/db-1-amtrak.jpg

I have more photos of this if interested.  I remember a mix of Amfleets and Heritage.  The F40's showed up in late 1978.   Photos by Dave Bunge

Bob

[Ed Kapuscinski]

National Limited pulling into Columbus, Ohio in the summer of 1979 at about 2am.  Pulls past the station, switches tracks to back into the platform for the "Amshack" station.

http://www.ladyandtramp.com/photos/d/239330-2/db-2-amtrak.jpg

Backing into the station:

http://www.ladyandtramp.com/photos/d/239323-2/db-1-amtrak.jpg

I have more photos of this if interested.  I remember a mix of Amfleets and Heritage.  The F40's showed up in late 1978.   Photos by Dave Bunge

Bob

Thanks! The National Limited was such a mess of a train.

[C62-2]

This (https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1344289) post is where the list of cars I posted for the Broadway Limited came from. It suggests when various Amtrak trains were converted from steam to HEP. I assume that the amfleet cars would have never been used together with the steam-heated heritage equipment.

[bman]

Yeah I miss the National Limited and Columbus Union Station. Ed, there is a group called passconsist at groups.io that I am a member of. They've helped me with my questions on Amtrak's National Limited since I am about to start my layout based on the PRR between London and Columbus around the mid to late 70's.
According to info posted there the last steam equipment National Limited departed Kansas City on August 14, 1978. Oddly enough it also mentions CR office car #3 was added at St Louis that trip. After that amfleets with a 10-6 sleeper converted to HEP and F40's from what I read. The last run for the National Limited was October 1st, 1979. I  thought I had saved a couple of Broadway consists as well. I can search posts on the Broadway for your timeframe when I get home.

[bbunge]

I shot this of the National Limited in the summer/fall of 1978, right at the end of the steam heat era.  Nikkormat FT3, Nikkor 50mm lens, Tri-x pushed to 800 ASA/ISO.  This photo later took first place for my age group at the Ohio State Fair in 1979. 



One of the fun aspects of waiting around seemingly forever by the Amshack station was the freights that crawled through at O dark thirty in the morning.  This photo is by my father.