New freight car from Intermountain - 2927 Covered Hopper

[thomasjmdavis]

I want one because of this photo. 

(Attachment Link)

Tom L.
Wellington CO

Well, now I want one too.  Thanks for posting the photo.  I went looking for something like that, but couldn't come up with one of a red car (except models, of course).  Made the mistake of thinking that meant there weren't any....

I think the easiest way to find a photo I want on Railwire is to suggest something isn't prototypical, because someone will then post one to prove me wrong.

Does anyone have a photo of a green Sinclair tank, with or without Dino on the side?

[thomasjmdavis]

@Rossford Yard - who do you pre-order from? 

[Rossford Yard]

Most often from Fifer Hobby in NM.

[wes_sutton]

Well, and to the consternation of many here, I will take IM's side, as I do with most mfgs.

First, years ago at train shows, Frank was, well, frank, with industry data especially IM's production runs.  I always appreciated that, just because of my interest in the hobby.  He relayed that at that time (maybe 2005, will have to find my document on that) that they had sold about 250,000 covered hoppers in BOTH N and HO, for instance.  However, a car like their much anticipated modern flat sold only about 8,000 in N.  Not sure if they had more than one re-run of those flats, but they were another much needed modern car that IM produced.  If you figure out the then $26(?) MSRP price tag and figure IM only grossed 45% of that, the total project gave them less than 100K.  Profit on that?  Who knows but even $20,000 for a year of work doesn't seem like a lot to me.

I still talk to them (Frank and Frank, Jr) when I get a chance.  I told them that I am part of the problem - not really pre-ordering much, but with that new covered hopper (wonder if that will sell more like the flats or grain covered hoppers? Probably the former) and their announced GP 10, I would actually be in for several and a few locos.  My goal was to add a few unofficial pre-orders to get them to commit.  Obviously, LOL, they didn't take me at my word. 

Actually, the whole experience of hearing their honest reaction (not enough pre-orders, especially for the GP 10 in certain road names, and they intimated it was nowhere close to the 300 minimum they wanted per road) made me start pre-ordering more.  Knowing that every year it does seem harder to get certain stuff without pre-order (i.e. recent MT TBox 60 ft boxcars) keeps me pre-ordering.

As someone here said, and I agree, right now I switch my cement plant with some earlier era short covered hoppers and it really doesn't bother me, even if I would have bought a dozen to make my RR look a bit more like the 2000+ era I envisioned.  Similarly, as a large switching layout representing an urban branch/spur to an industrial park, I like the look of second hand locos, leased patch jobs, etc.  The GP 10's would have been a nice addition (and their sound SD40-2's have been great for me)  That said, I have enough locos to run already, and the variety of locos, which I really do love, seems to get less and less "necessary" as time goes on.

I refuse to angry up my retirement years over not having "necessary" locos and cars (although, admittedly, between building 4 N scale layouts over 30 years focusing on both terminal roads that could run everything or branch lines that can run almost anything reasonably construed as second hand, I have formed my layouts around NOT getting every loco of every road) in my quest for the perfect N scale layout.  Hey, I'm not anywhere close to it being perfect in other areas I can control, so I won't blame mfgs or anyone else for that!

As time goes on, I realize that I could probably run the same stuff every time, and not care.  And, in fact, I do. My Kato SD40-2 (modified and painted to be an IHB SD38-2) still runs the best, so I use it most.  My second best runners are scale trains C-39-8, so I run those next.  Most nights, I just leave what is on the track on the track.  Similarly, with rolling stock, I have enough to rotate out so the same boxcar doesn't go to the same spur every time.  My original plan was to rotate some rolling stock out every session, but I don't even do that very often.  With six distinct switch jobs, I rarely think about the sameness by the time I get back around to the same job.

Bottom line, bitching about mfgs seems to be more important on social media than in actually enjoying model railroading, isn't it?

Love it - this should be a pinned post at the top of the board.

Sick and tired of 'hard men' sitting in their armchairs telling us how they could do a much better job.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

One thing should be mentioned. It is absolutely possible to create anything in N scale rather cheaply.

Briggs can make an entire kit engine for under $250. I mean think of how crazy that would have seamed in the 1980's. A model that looks and runs as well as an Atlas, totally bespoke and it can be yours for under $250. Crazy.

I have no talent with 3d programs to design stuff myself. But there are people like John on here that can be hired to create what we need. My Walthers PD5125 is a perfect example. I had lobbied for years to get an upgrade kit or a new model of this very popular and distinct model. The regular manufacturers were not interested so I contracted the design work to Keystone Details. I went from initial conception to a finished model on my desk in about 8 months. I bought enough material to convert about 15 cars for a total cost of $300. That is one hell of a bargain.

Or take a look at that caboose thread. What a time to be alive.

(PS John... how about them Kawasaki bi-levels? That stimulus check we are getting won't spend itself lol)

So my point is... we don't need a manufacturer to make something. We can do it ourselves and the finished product can be every bit as good as what IM or others can make.

[peteski]

(PS John... how about them Kawasaki bi-levels? That stimulus check we are getting won't spend itself lol)

I know this is OT, but I would be in for at least half a dozen of those (with and without the control cab).

[eja]

Sorry folks, but in my mind:

Intermountain = Vaporware, plain and simple.

They have announced so many models I would add to my collection, but they never appear.  Also looking at their web page I can never figure out exactly what products they actually have or will have available to purchase so I don't even consider doing so any more.

Not a good way to run a (model) railroad (company) in my opinion.

YMMV ....


eja

[Rossford Yard]

Eja,

Of course, it could be better, but we aren't dealing with some big companies, most are just cottage industries, and at the whim of Chinese manufacturers (and often Atlas, where they get their motors, frames for SD40-T, etc) at that.  I just have the impression that IM is, after decades in the biz, more afraid of a massive failure and the financial impact that might have.  And, that might be tied to being one of the first to offer one off models like the Tunnel motors with its limited road name appeal, or the new GP 10.  I don't really know.

But, I understand.  Pre 2000, some locos sold 20,000 or more units in N, now according to industry sources I know, 2,000 would be a nice run for most.  Just not a lot of room for error.  And, for that matter, not a lot of ways to get a good read on the market. 

Wasn't it IM that listened to these forums and became convinced a U18B would be a well-received model?  But, they got very few orders, probably a few each from the half dozen here who kept lobbying for them, LOL (to me) and LOL Not (to IM). So, they are back at it, trying to supply new and needed by some (or desired) like the GP 10, or cement hoppers, but with a much more wary eye.

(Mind you, I am just guessing at those numbers.  As open as IM has been about sales figures, I have never heard them talk about pre-orders, etc., just that they were cancelled due to lack thereof)

[learmoia]

I've lost faith in IM as well...

I have a few of the 4750 covered hoppers.... but between
-Releasing products that while detailed, look poorly assembled (SD40-2s)
-Announcing products with 1 scheme and releasing them in another (Conrail ACF Hoppers)
-Multi year lead times to production.
-Announcing Vaporware that still waits for reservations... while another mfg announced, released, and a 2nd run of the same model (4785s)

I'm done..  it something shows up in physical form that I want.. I may buy one.. otherwise.. nahh..

[peteski]

I've lost faith in IM as well...

I have a few of the 4750 covered hoppers.... but between
-Releasing products that while detailed, look poorly assembled (SD40-2s)
-Announcing products with 1 scheme and releasing them in another (Conrail ACF Hoppers)
-Multi year lead times to production.
-Announcing Vaporware that still waits for reservations... while another mfg announced, released, and a 2nd run of the same model (4785s)

I'm done..  it something shows up in physical form that I want.. I may buy one.. otherwise.. nahh..

Looks like one of those self-fulfilling failures.  Due to the company's past history modelers are shunning preorders, so the company doesn't get enough reservations to produce new models. Down the drain things go.

[Rossford Yard]

Looks like one of those self-fulfilling failures.  Due to the company's past history modelers are shunning preorders, so the company doesn't get enough reservations to produce new models. Down the drain things go.

That may be true, sort of like LHS who carry far less inventory in N than HO, and then we start looking elsewhere, so they complain people are buying even less N, stock less....and the cycle goes on.

Who knows?  We tend to think of these companies as permanent fixtures, but all businesses go through cycles, only a few hang on for decades.  Many don't survive to the second generation or new owner, because they don't have the passion for it the original owner did in his prime.

It is what it is, but I have tried pre-ordering more just to encourage them to make things I want.  The worst that can happen is a bunch of new product happening to hit the store shelves exactly at a time when I am low on funds, but that has only happened once to me.  The second worst is getting poor product, which is a pretty low percentage these days and in most cases we have the right to refuse delivery for whatever reason.   And if you don't get something you think you wanted, it's probably some pretty nice guys who just couldn't get it done for project specific reasons that, if explained, you would probably understand.

[Missaberoad]

Remember when these Intermountain threads were about the SD45-2. Pepperidge Farm remembers...

[GaryHinshaw]

I think IM's issue is more with their supply chain than their pre-order model (though that too is problematic).  Example: the 3281 hoppers were announced about 5 years ago and most of the road names received enough pre-orders to qualify for "Confirmed for Production" status on their web page.  They've had that status for years now, and still we still wait.  For better or worse, the shop I pre-ordered from is no more, so at least I don't have to track it... 

[peteski]

Remember when these Intermountain threads were about the SD45-2. Pepperidge Farm remembers...

...broccoli in pastry.  But how do they pick them?