Splicing Pewter

[Rivet Miscounter]

Is it possible to splice pewter in a manner that has some bit of structural integrity?  Specifically the "lead-free pewter" as used in AC Models/EDM Z-scale spine car models.

I have several of the 48ft spine car kits, but I would much prefer 53's.   I just don't know if--practically speaking--splicing could yield a car that would withstand a model railroad environment.   Was thinking the obvious...jeweler's saw the parts, file, JBWeld, fill, etc.   Maybe drill a 1/16"ish hole and insert a pin.  (steel, brass...are there metal compatibility issues at work here?)

@GaryHinshaw you referenced this exact conversion in this thread: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=19406.0 .   Granted, N but you even mentioned N-Scale Kits parts so it should be the exact same material given EDM's lineage.  I'm assuming the length difference in the RAF33/53's is in the platform area just like the conversions?  Extending at the platform cross-section would certainly help with the strength/stability.

Thanks for your constructive input and/or experience with such a conversion.   

[GaryHinshaw]

Wow, some real archeology here.  I wonder if those DI spines are about to appear.   

After 12 years, I still have that 48' > 53' conversion on my to-do list!    However, now that I have my 3d printer cranking out upgrade parts for by BLMA spine cars, I am newly motivated to get back to this conversion.  To your question: I am fully confident that a splice joint will be suitable if done properly.  My plan was to make a butt joint with a pin, secured with epoxy.  I did something similar to repair a truck loop on an old DI Maxi-III and it has held up fine in pretty regular service.  The main challenge will be getting the joint aligned properly so the spine is straight and true, but that's to be expected.  If I get to this in the next few months, I'll try to remember to post some photos.

[Lemosteam]

What is the shape of the spine in cross section H, U or just plane square or rectangular solid?

[dougnelson]

The only thing that I can add is you probably cannot solder pewter.  It has a very low melting temperature and will easily melt along with the solder.  A mechanical connection with a pin and adhesive (CA or maybe Walthers Goo) sounds feasible.

[Rivet Miscounter]

What is the shape of the spine in cross section H, U or just plane square or rectangular solid?

Thanks for the comments thus far.   John, from your choices, I think "square solid" would be the answer, but it's more of a square solid with wings (or "T" if you will) as the platforms for the trailer wheels jut out on each side.   It appears the sill and platforms are all cast as one piece on the Z version.  (in contrast to N... I think I recall that the platforms were an add-on piece with the N version.  Could be wrong on that.)

Here's a top view for reference:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[wazzou]

If I were to cut and pin, which I've done more than a few times, I wouldn't trust CA or much less Goo.
I've always used a two part epoxy, like JB Weld or similar.

[robert3985]

If I were to cut and pin, which I've done more than a few times, I wouldn't trust CA or much less Goo.
I've always used a two part epoxy, like JB Weld or similar.

I wouldn't bother to pin using JB Weld.  It's plenty strong. 

Although I haven't tried any yet, I'm looking at the new UV activated "adhesives" (they're not really adhesives) which appear to be extremely strong, very quick, easy to sand...quite versatile in their applications.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[MK]

Bondic.

[peteski]

Bondic (Not a Glue) and similar, are not real adhesives, and they are very weak unless they make mechanical bond to the surfaces (rough surfaces).  If applied to smooth plastic or metal surfaces, they will easily peel off.  Also, the UV LED included with the kit doesn't even fully harden them. They remain rubbery and have sticky surface. To set them hard and dry, they need stronger (and shorter wavelength) source of UV light.  Exposure to strong Sunlight works well to fully set them.

Also, since these need light to set, using them as adhesive for 2 metal pieces is futile (since the light will not penetrate deep inside the bond).

As for pewter, there might be a way to solder it using one of the low-temperature solders. Another possibility (for some adventurous modelers) is to weld the pieces together using soldering iron. But it has to be done quickly, so just the areas close to the soldering iron's tip melt.  I have tried that method, but it is not for the faint of heart.

[Lemosteam]

Thanks for the comments thus far.   John, from your choices, I think "square solid" would be the answer, but it's more of a square solid with wings (or "T" if you will) as the platforms for the trailer wheels jut out on each side.   It appears the sill and platforms are all cast as one piece on the Z version.  (in contrast to N... I think I recall that the platforms were an add-on piece with the N version.  Could be wrong on that.)

Here's a top view for reference:
(Attachment Link)

If its a T shape I would do this and put a horizontal pin across the top of the T.  Yes it's more difficult to cut. but you will have waste to fit things together perfectly.  Just the way I would do it or something similar for a mechanical joint rather than relying on a glue only:




you could also just cut a butt splice then using a dremel, slice a groove into the center mass vertically into both pieces but not all the way through the top, and insert a strip of brass and pin both pieces through the brass.

[narrowminded]

This could probably be prepped by machining each end at a mating angle to afford the largest area for an epoxied joint to be made.  Precision would matter but properly executed should work well.  It could even have a pocket cut in the mating face at the appropriate depth (.002" deep?) to optimize the joint integrity while still retaining the machined face for accurate positioning.  If the as cast surfaces are good it would probably not be too hard to execute. 

Another possibility, if the ends have room to make pockets at the dimension of the beam (or at least a reasonable section of the beam) a new beam could be machined from brass and assembled into machined pockets at each end.  Also, if I'm understanding this as planned, it will take two modified cars to make one car.  If that's the case, this method would not lose any cars.  I could look at doing this for you if you wanted to but could only commit if I had one in hand to inspect and make sure a gripping scheme can be readily executed.  PM

[Rivet Miscounter]

Thanks again for the suggestions.   Some really well thought out responses and I appreciate it.

Initially when I posted this I wasn't considering that the joint would be in the "T" cross section.  I think that alone makes me feel a little more at ease compared to the brunt of force being focused on a 1/8x1/8 area of adhesive.

Mark (narrowminded) I appreciate the offer.  After the discussion has progressed, I'm just not sure we have to go to those lengths here. 

you could also just cut a butt splice then using a dremel, slice a groove into the center mass vertically into both pieces but not all the way through the top, and insert a strip of brass and pin both pieces through the brass.

John, that is probably the way to go.  As I allude to with Mark, I'm less and less convinced--given the "T" cross section--that I would have any issue at all even if I just JB Welded it together and did nothing more.  I don't think a pin through the "wings" would be workable simply due to their thin profile and the soft metal.  But a groove and brass strip I think would work well.   While I am unsure if the pulling forces of a Z-scale Intermodal train would pull epoxy apart in this case, I think that solution would certainly settle the issue.

[narrowminded]

Thanks again for the suggestions.   Some really well thought out responses and I appreciate it.

Initially when I posted this I wasn't considering that the joint would be in the "T" cross section.  I think that alone makes me feel a little more at ease compared to the brunt of force being focused on a 1/8x1/8 area of adhesive.

Mark (narrowminded) I appreciate the offer.  After the discussion has progressed, I'm just not sure we have to go to those lengths here. 

John, that is probably the way to go.  As I allude to with Mark, I'm less and less convinced--given the "T" cross section--that I would have any issue at all even if I just JB Welded it together and did nothing more.  I don't think a pin through the "wings" would be workable simply due to their thin profile and the soft metal.  But a groove and brass strip I think would work well.   While I am unsure if the pulling forces of a Z-scale Intermodal train would pull epoxy apart in this case, I think that solution would certainly settle the issue.

I don't believe that the forces in service will be an issue.  Even with care, the simple handling of them will be the worst forces that they see.