Karnak, IL Interchange Track Plan

[keeper]

Hmm, sorry, if there are pics, I can't see them...

[chessie system fan]

I have a few thoughts.  I too am in the "no parallel lines with the track to the wall or layout edge" camp.  I always thought @btrain illustrated this well on his NKP layout.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=40849.0

Notice how his bottom yard has a slight tilt to it.  That's the sort of thing I think Ed and Lee are getting at too.  And something that slight wouldn't affect curve radii that much and might actually improve the radius in a few spots, with some planning, yet is more interesting to look at, IMO.  For example, if you shift the tracks slightly to the rear in the top left, it breaks up the parallel lines with the backdrop and layout edge and as a bonus gives the top left curves a larger radius. Plus, the curve in the little yard at the right would be slightly less.

There's a lot of hidden trackage yet you're modeling flatlands and the benchwork is a bit narrow.  Do you have a plan to hide the hidden tracks sufficiently? And do you have a way to reach the tracks when there's the inevitable derailment?

To the left of the staging yard, it's difficult to measure exact distances in your drawing, but it couldn't hurt to have another inch or two of more straight track between the curve and the yard. (But I have a better idea below.)

I would also have yard ladders in the staging yard.  As is, I see a lot of unnecessary little S curves to potentially give you trouble later on. 

Some of those yard tracks are shorter than they have to be, unless you have a good reason for keeping them as-is.

I presume that since this is just a staging yard there won't be any switching, so no need for a runaround track, but you might as well add a caboose track plus a little engine terminal to display your superb custom diesels. 

And finally, before doing anything permanent, you have nothing to loose and a lot to gain by buying a roll of wrapping paper or (better yet) something heavier like craft paper, laying it out on the floor and drawing out everything full size.  You could do one roll per wall.  Buy an 8 foot vinyl one inch molding. It's a great super flexible ruler.  If you use it with some heavy paperweights to hold it in place it's a fast, easy way to create easements into your curves. Plus, you'll have a better sense for how the tracks flow.

If you try all or most of that, I think you'll find that in the lower left corner it makes logical sense to have the three lower turnouts in the blue line be a continuous yard ladder, so flipping those turnouts from rights to lefts, and then starting the upward curve from that straight line.  The curve will have a larger radius and there won't be a kink.  You could do the same thing with the two grey turnouts too.   

And does the lift out section in the lower right have to be straight?  If you angled the left side lower that would not only give larger curves on the lower right but also make a smoother light blue mainline and lessen the curve to the dark blue yard.

But in the end this is your project, so feel free to ignore all of this if you want.   

[btrain]

Thank you for the compliment @chessie system fan. I’ll admit that I have noticed when I exhibit the layout at shows, that those off kilter angles really draw people into the scene. It sort of makes the viewer work to take it all in, which many appreciate how they have to deliberately slow their eyes instead of doing a quick scan of it. I even have people just linger over the far upper right module in my plan of Kimball where the line snakes around gentle midwestern pastures.

The other bonus is it opens up space for layout design elements, like my roundhouse scene. That would have been impossible to model it without the yard being at an angle to the edge.

[6axlepwr]

The new revised layout design. I am much happier with this plan. I have separated the CPT&C and MP track so there is no shared trackage. I moved the grain elevator siding to where it is supposed to be in the upper left corner. The main focus is the Karnak interchange and made that yard longer. I also separated the staging yards. More yard track for the CPT&C since it is the railroad I am modeling. The MP is the secondary road because it is the interchange road. Track is rather linear, but that is because that is pretty much how it is in Illinois. Very long and straight. I am not going to add cosmetic curves for the sake of adding them.

There will be some tweaking when the track goes down because the squared off corners are actually going to be rounded. The program I am using does not allow me to make rounded corners or at least I do not know how to yet.

[/url]KARNAK FIRST PASS rev1 by Brian Banna, on Flickr[/img]

[6axlepwr]

Aaron, Thank you for your suggestions.

1. I fully understand about the angling the track to the benchwork. Even slightly. I do not have the luxury of making my benchwork deep enough for that though. This room is also my hobby room and office. Below this benchwork is all my work tables so I cannot have the layout protrude out to far from the wall. Otherwise it would obstruct me being able to work. I need to bring the visible track as far forward as possible to allow the space to the hidden track to be filled in and blended. What you see with the sharp inside corners will not be there. The inside corners will be rounded off to create better curvatures. Some tweaking will be done in the corners to better spread the tracks out and open the curves more.

2. Yes, I am modeling flatlands, but the area these flatlands are in is LOADED with trees. essentially to the inside of the Karnak interchange meaning the inside of the room. That would all be a swamp with lots of cypress trees. One of those types of forests that in the summer, you could not see through. Very dense and very close tot he tracks. I have a life time of tree making to look forward to.

3. I agree about the yard ladder, but what switches do I use for that? I am trying to go with all Atlas code 55 track. So would I use #5 switches for a yard ladder? I am currently using #7's and 10's to enter the yard.

4. Yes, I have a plan to hide the back wall tracks. The area I am modeling is LOADED with trees. The idea is to have a false back drop in front of the hidden tracks and bring the trees up to that and blend the scenery where the track disappears behind the false back drop.

5. Yes, the lift out has to be straight. to the outside of that area is a door and a table with a milling machine on it. The left side will be narrow and then it will flair out to meet the yard.

I am definitely going to use your suggestion for a yard ladder.

Thank yo for taking the time to post your suggestions. I appreciate it.

Brian

[wm3798]

I dig about shelf depth and sharing the space with other activities.  I face the same challenge in my next home. 
I'm willing to give you a pass on the parallel nature of the track plan, but insist that you take the opportunity to trick the eye with the angle of any road crossings, stream beds, power lines... what have you.

If you're going to have the typical highway that parallels the track, have it move about just a little, vertically with some modest rolls in the terrain, and horizontally...  maybe a service station between the track and the road pushes the road out into a bit of a bow.

I love the long runs, you can create some really photogenic views with a bit of imagination.

Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

As for hiding RoW behind trees, that can be VERY effective!

From my last layout. And this is with bare trees.




Make the trees right (ie, NOT the ones in the Woodland Scenics bag) and the they work great.

[chessie system fan]

I like the newer version, Brian. I, too, have limited space so I understand where you're coming from. I bet if you angled the top left just one inch higher over the course of ~ten feet you could still achieve the effect we're discussing.  But if you don't have an extra inch then that's that.  As Lee mentioned, there are other ways to fool the mind's eye.  And I'm sure the tree idea will work out great.

So here's a quick version of what I was envisioning for the yard adapted for the newer trackplan (obviously shortened and condensed and the big curves aren't to scale).  I used #7's in this example but it would be worth playing with #10's to see if they fit your space too.  The crossing is the narrowest available.




Actually, though this wouldn't fit your needs per se, my first thought after looking at your first plan was that it would work great as a single-tracked folded two-level trackplan that meets at the crossing. The top rear grey track would go down a grade to a somewhat lower level (say, only four or five inches down) and enter a blue staging yard below the main yard (or perhaps the lower staging yard would be the only yard, so more room for scenery on the top level).  The lower grey-turned-to-blue track would then rise up on the left side to the level of the crossing again.  Upsides for the plan would be even narrower benchwork at the top and bottom yet more room for scenery. The downside would be both railroads on the wrong side of the prototypical crossing as one point or another, and of course it would be more complex to build. But all this is just me having fun with trackplanning.