Locomotive Class/Marker Lights Detail Part

[robert3985]

Bob, and others: thanks for wonderfully educational posts.  Bob, I'll take your word for it that the marker lights are either green or white since all the photos are black/white.    I have no reasons to doubt you and what you state makes perfect sense.

But I still don't know whether those marker lamp enclosures could be rotated to show different classification (green or white) on the front, or the color had to be changed by manually replacing the lenses on a stationary marker lamp body.  Also, why were there 3 (or 4?) openings in the marker lamp?  Were all of those openings exposed to the light source inside?  If that  is the case, then it would make sense that all the lenses on the marker lamp should have the same color (not like what  is displayed in the museum locos?

@peteski Peter, finding color photos of trains in the 1940's is nearly impossible.  To exacerbate the problem, classification lights were/are very dim, and are like little spotlights and invisible when viewed at the photographer's favorite 3/4 view of engines.

And, if you like what I did in my post, then please vote my post up, okay?

To graphically illustrate this "problem", look at the classification lights on UP extra X4014 as it comes straight at my camera at Echo Curve on a rainy, windy day this year...and look at the angle at which the classification light can't be seen from the front, then when the side-facing lenses blink on and off as the engine passes by....slowly.

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Cameras in the 1940 and 50's and film was a lot less sophisticated than the whole photography process nowadays, so it's no wonder that actual color photos of locomotives taken with the best color film available (Kodachrome 08 to 25 ASA) made shooting a moving target without motion blur difficult indeed.  The other two color positive films were Autochrome and Dufaycolor and were additive processes, and absorbed between 70% and 80% of the light projected through them, and worst of all, would be virtually unrecognizable nearly 75 years later because they degraded quickly....as opposed to Kodachrome's subtractive process.

I'll stick with 1's and 0's for my archival quality photography! Yup...I shoot RAW.

Here's a website that 'splains how the Pyle Class Lanterns work, and how the color change was accomplished with just the flip of a lever:  https://www.jeffpolston.com/classificationlamp.htm

Also, very excellent photos of the lanterns themselves.

For further information just google "steam engine class lanterns"...an interesting way to spend a few minutes learning about some very basic railroading most model railroaders know virtually nothing about.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[peteski]

Bob,  I was not blaming you for posting blac/white photos.  I understand that most photos from the steam era were B/W and in those rare color photos, the relatively dim class. lights were difficult to photograph, especially during the day.

Thanks for link to the website containing info and photos of the Pyle marker lamp. It definitely clarifies things for me.  There are only 2 lenses (not 3 or 4) facing the front and side of the loco, and only white or green can be displayed.  Perfect!

I up-voted all the informative posts in this thread.   

[Cajonpassfan]

But I still don't know whether those marker lamp enclosures could be rotated to show different classification (green or white) on the front, or the color had to be changed by manually replacing the lenses on a stationary marker lamp body.  Also, why were there 3 (or 4?) openings in the marker lamp?
...etc...

I don’t claim to be an expert either, but I know this much: These are NOT MARKER lights, these are CLASS lights, two entirely different animals, and many, including those publishing national magazines, confuse the two It’s really not that complicated: Markers mark the end of a train, class lights or classification signals up front define the type (or class) of train under a timetable.

There are only three class signal indications: Dark for a scheduled train, White for an extra, and Green for a following section. They do not need to rotate (like marker lights) because they have to show the same (color) classification in all directions, otherwise an “extra” train signal would look like a “scheduled section following” signal from the side or rear. Not just ATSF, pretty universal. There were two, sometimes three lenses in a class light signal, with a lighted clear lens indicating an extra, and a green insert if there was a scheduled train section following.

There may have been some odd variations, but this was pretty much the norm during the late steam, TT&TO era.
Pics of an Adlake Class Signal light fixture below; dark, Extra, and Section Following. Also a view of the green inserts.

Bob, thanks for the awesome pics and write up!
Otto K.

[peteski]

I don’t claim to be an expert either, but I know this much: These are NOT MARKER lights, these are CLASS lights, two entirely different animals, and many, including those publishing national magazines, confuse the two It’s really not that complicated: Markers mark the end of a train, class lights or classification signals up front define the type (or class) of train under a timetable.

Sorry!  I mean to write classification lights.
Went back and corrected that post.

[Hawghead]

Markers, normally red, marking the end of a train while running, had red, yellow (and sometimes even green lenses depending on railroad) permanently installed and could be physically rotated when stopped (you wouldn’t want an approaching train confusing a marker light with a red signal).

I know different railroads had different rules for the same situation, but having red lights on the rear of a stopped train that might be confused with a red signal, would be exactly what you would want to prevent a "Casey Jones" moment.

Scott

[cv_acr]

Red markers displayed to the rear, change to green *when clear in siding for another train to overtake* to signal safe to pass.

The red markers definitely would want to be treated as a red signal by the guys in the caboose.

[peteski]

I know different railroads had different rules for the same situation, but having red lights on the rear of a stopped train that might be confused with a red signal, would be exactly what you would want to prevent a "Casey Jones" moment.

Scott

Not sure how  to interpret your statement.  "Confused"? I thought all the trains have some sort of red indicator at the end of the train. It *SHOULD* be interpreted as a stop sign to any trains that end up behind it. Just as a red signal, red marker at the end of the train means *STOP*!

[nkalanaga]

Part of the reason class lights don't show in daytime pictures is that many roads used flags in the steam era.  Lights were reserved for nighttime, mostly because they were hard to see during the day, and, if they were kerosene, to keep from having to fill them more often.

The only time I remember ever seeing class lights in use was on Amtrak's Empire Builder, in Pasco, in 1974, during the Spokane World's Fair.  One evening I happened to be at the depot when it ran in two sections from Seattle to Spokane.  Amtrak also added a temporary second train to the ex-GN Wenatchee route, for more convenient connections from Seattle.  A LOT of people rode the train to Expo 74.

I assume BN used them on freight trains, but don't remember ever seeing them, not even white for extras.  Or maybe they had stopped using them, assuming they were no longer needed?  The mainline was all CTC or ABS, and the branch lines usually only had one train at a time anyway.