Life-Like SW9/1200 wheelsets out of gauge - a lot

[gkoproske]

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This wheelset, assuming my photo uploads to this forum, is from a Life-Like SW9/1200 that I am repairing for a client from the Springfield Illinois Train Fair last March.  The entire locomotive leans to one side regardless of how the trucks are swapped.  Turns out all of the wheelsets on this locomotive are grossly under gauge.  I know from years of reading that the generally accepted fix is to twist the wheels back in gauge, in this case outward.  I am here to tell you that using fingers does not work other than to have the flanges carve ruts into my fingertips.  How are we supposed to be able to do this?  And seeing as how the black sleeve of the gear is centered between the wheels, if I manage to get one wheel moved out, then perhaps the gear won't line up.  It's always the small stuff, isn't it.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

The half axles on LL engines are knurled. If you twist them, you risk damaging the plastic gear portion. Try using Atlas or Kato wheel sets. You will need to adjust the centering of the gear, but that is fairly easy. Use this to adjust the axle on the wheel:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walkera-W010-Gear-Pinion-Puller-Remover-Tools-Set-For-RC-Motor-Pinion-Parts-ED/111954055561

[craigolio1]

The half axles on LL engines are knurled. If you twist them, you risk damaging the plastic gear portion. Try using Atlas or Kato wheel sets. You will need to adjust the centering of the gear, but that is fairly easy. Use this to adjust the axle on the wheel:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walkera-W010-Gear-Pinion-Puller-Remover-Tools-Set-For-RC-Motor-Pinion-Parts-ED/111954055561

Can that be used to press them on as well?

[mmagliaro]

A bit of caution.  Those axles are pointed and protrude through to the outside, right?  (That's what I'm seeing in the photo).
When you turn the press screw up against that pointed end, you risk flattening or otherwise disfiguring it.  In a plastic axle tube, the risk is not as great as in a case where you have a metal wheel hard-pressed on a metal shaft, but you still should avoid it.
Put something a little softer between the ram pin and the tip of that axle when you do this. A plastic nylon washer, just inserted so some of the plastic is in between the ram and the axle point, with do the trick.  You don't want to blunt that point.

But otherwise, I completely agree.  Do this with a wheel puller.  Don't just pull and twist on axles.  It's not worth the risk if you can easily get on it with a puller.

[Point353]

I've had some success re-gauging such wheel sets wider using a set of flat nose pliers, such as the ones shown below.
Open the pliers so that the jaws just fit between the inside faces of the wheels and then gently pull the handles apart to apply outward pressure to the wheels.




 

[Jim Starbuck]

Daniel is correct. The metal half axles on the LL are splined so don’t twist them in the axle tube.
Set the wheelsets on the bench and place a hobby knife blade just at the end of the tube and against the back of the wheel. Carefully roll the wheelsets while pushing down on the knife and this will force the axle tube away from the wheel enough that you can get a fine screwdriver in to open it up a bit further if needed.

Hope this helps

Jim

[daniel_leavitt2000]

A bit of caution.  Those axles are pointed and protrude through to the outside, right?  (That's what I'm seeing in the photo).
When you turn the press screw up against that pointed end, you risk flattening or otherwise disfiguring it.  In a plastic axle tube, the risk is not as great as in a case where you have a metal wheel hard-pressed on a metal shaft, but you still should avoid it.
Put something a little softer between the ram pin and the tip of that axle when you do this. A plastic nylon washer, just inserted so some of the plastic is in between the ram and the axle point, with do the trick.  You don't want to blunt that point.

But otherwise, I completely agree.  Do this with a wheel puller.  Don't just pull and twist on axles.  It's not worth the risk if you can easily get on it with a puller.

Pro-tip: use a penny as the surface to press the axle point against. The zinc in the penny is much softer than the axle steel.

[central.vermont]

Pro-tip: use a penny as the surface to press the axle point against. The zinc in the penny is much softer than the axle steel.

Are you suggesting that you are a pro? 

Jon

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Are you suggesting that you are a pro? 

Jon

Actually I think it was Pete that suggested using brass or bronze strips. A penny are just cheaper.

[central.vermont]

I actually do as Jim Starbuck mentioned earlier with the knife trick. Then I take my tweezers
and grasp the axle firmly and slide the wheel and axle up the point of the tweezers which
will slowly increase the opening.

Tweezers like these.

Jon

[nkalanaga]

Or, if you're comfortable with tools, you can drill a hole in the end of the press screw, smaller than the axle diameter.  Center that over the point, and all of the pressure will be on the outer portion of the axle.  Even if it does get scratched, the tip of the point will still be smooth, and it will still roll smoothly.

[peteski]

I'm really confused by all the recommendations of pressing the half-axles in or out in the wheels.

I don't think that is the problem here.  I think it is a simple problem of the wheels (with their half-axles as they are) being pressed too far into the plastic axle tube.  All that needs to be done is to pull the wheels/half-axles outwards slightly (on both sides).

If it cannot be done using fingers, use some sort of a lever-like or a wedge device.  A large pair of tweezers (like Jon showed) should work. Place the tweezers between the plastic gear and the back of the wheel, pushing them further until the width of the points is wedged between the gear and back of the wheel, and gently rock them to pry the wheel out a bit. Repeat on the other side.  Done!

[mmagliaro]

Pete, I think you are right and are seeing the obvious that we didn't see. Plus, pulling axle out of the tube is a lot more forgiving than pressing a wheel off an axle, which is more prone to introducing wobble.

The only way your idea would not work would be if you wedged the tweezers in there and the wheel "let go" and slid on its axle before the axle slid out of the tube, but I highly doubt that would happen.

Folks...reread Peteski's suggestion. I think it's a better idea than pulling or wheel pressing.

[peteski]

Pete, I think you are right and are seeing the obvious that we didn't see. Plus, pulling axle out of the tube is a lot more forgiving than pressing a wheel off an axle, which is more prone to introducing wobble.

The only way your idea would not work would be if you wedged the tweezers in there and the wheel "let go" and slid on its axle before the axle slid out of the tube, but I highly doubt that would happen.

Folks...reread Peteski's suggestion. I think it's a better idea than pulling or wheel pressing.

 
Thanks Max.
One thing we didn't address (or have knowledge of) is whether the wheel/half-axles assemblies are assembled correctly (in spec). If they are, then there won't be any problems when the wheel gauge is adjusted to the proper gauge.  The tight-gauged wheelsets are currently rather loose in the  wheel bearing cups in the sideframes.  After being re-gauged, they will properly fit the bearing cups (not too loose).

But if the wheels, while being currently tight in gauge, properly fit the bearing cups (not too loose), then when we spread them out to be in gauge, the total axle length will be too wide and they will be too tight in the bearing cups. If that is the case, then the half-axles would have to be pressed inwards  (like you mentioned earlier).

When I adjust gauge on this type of wheel sets I install washers on the half axles which prevents the wheels form ever becoming tight in gauge.




While not directly related to this issue, the whole process of adjusting the half-axle length (on Kato wheelsets, to fit Atlas trucks) is covered in https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=33107.msg596466#msg596466