Sound Decoders

[reinhardtjh]

That just means that the "Select" product line is exclusive to and and only available from distributors through ESU USA rather than ESU home base in Germany.  The Select is their "cheap" decoder for us Americans that won't pay full price for the V4 series.  The only difference (in most cases) between the two is that the Select requires that you load pre-made by ESU sound files.  With the V4 you can create your own and load using the LokProgrammer software.

[peteski]

That just means that the "Select" product line is exclusive to and and only available from distributors through ESU USA rather than ESU home base in Germany.  The Select is their "cheap" decoder for us Americans that won't pay full price for the V4 series.  The only difference (in most cases) between the two is that the Select requires that you load pre-made by ESU sound files.  With the V4 you can create your own and load using the LokProgrammer software.

Also, doesn't "Select" only handle the DCC protocol, where the standard versions handle multiple protocols (like DCC, Motorola, and Marklin)?
I also did not realize that the select version limits your sound library.  I guess the ESU decoder's documentation/specifications are a bit fuzzy to me.

Where is that sound file limitation clearly explained?

[RBrodzinsky]

Select decoders handle all the protocols, not just DCC. The only difference is that Select can only accept the pre-made sound projects, versus a full V4 is completely customizable. These are explained right in the description of the decoders on the ESU site.

[peteski]

Select decoders handle all the protocols, not just DCC. The only difference is that Select can only accept the pre-made sound projects, versus a full V4 is completely customizable. These are explained right in the description of the decoders on the ESU site.

Select
Quote from http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-select/

Operational modes

The LokSound Select can be used on conventional “analog” layouts and controlled with a DC power pack, but to benefit from all its features, we highly recommend DCC operation.

The LokSound Select follows all NMRA DCC standards and recommended practices. It can be used with 14, 28 or 128 speed steps, supports two digit (7 bit addresses) as well as “4-digit” addressing. Up to 29 function keys are supported. The LokSound Select can change between DC and DCC operation at any time “on the fly”.

Of course, the LokSound Select supports all DCC-programming modes including Programming on the Main Track (“POM”). Because of its unique low-power design, the LokSound Select can be programmed on the programming track of all popular DCC systems. No programming track boosters or other circuitry will be needed.

Nowhere are the Selectix or Marklin (Motorola) formats mentoned.  Only "dual mode" (DCC and DC).

And now V4
From http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-v40/

The LokSound V4.0 recognises DCC, Selectrix® and the Motorola® protocol. It can be operated with 14, 28 or 128 drive steps or on analogue DC layouts in DCC mode.You can assign the decoders to 2-digit, 3-digit (1-127) or 4-digit (1-9999) addresses as well as a consist address.

The Motorola®-protocol provides the operation of the LokSound V4.0 decoders with Märklin® control stations 6020®, 6021®, delta®, mobile station® and central station®. The decoders can be used with the addresses 01 – 255 on this mode. A second address provides the possibility to use the function keys F5 to F8.

The Selectrix® protocol provides the possibility to use LokSound V4.0 decoders with this also established system. All established DCC brake systems like the well-known Lenz LG100, but also the new Lenz® ABC brake units with asymmetrical DCC signal are recognised as well as the braking on DC (with switched polarity) or on Selectrix® diode brake systems. You can also use the well-known Märklin® brake system in DCC-mode.

Of course, our top decoder is able to determine a constant braking distance, so that your locos stop in front of the red signal, no matter what speed your loco is at.

LokSound V4.0 decoders are also able to operate on analogue DC and AC layouts.

The decoders can switch automatically between all modes (AC, Motorola®, DC, DCC, Selectrix®) during operation. This is important if some parts of your layout work with analogue control (e.g. fiddle yards).

Am I misinterpreting the specifications? 

As far as the sound goes:

Select
From http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-select/

Sound

The LokSound Select comes with a 32 MBit memory chip. The sounds stored therein are our own recordings which were made by using the latest recording equipment and have been digitally re-mastered for the best audio possible. The sounds are transferred to a class “D” audio amplifier via eight polyphonic sound channels. LokSound Select decoders offer the following unique features:

    Multiple whistle and horns: Each LokSound Select offers many whistle & horns. By just changing one CV, you can select your favorite one. This allows an easier adjustment to your model.
    Playable whistle: The LokSound Select supports a very fast responding whistle function. By just pressing your throttle‘s button, you can really blow the whistle like the real engineer.
    8 channel sound: The LokSound Select can playback up to 8 sounds at the same time. This will result in the most realistic experience available today.
    Synchronized brake squeal: The LokSound Select will synchronize the brake squeal sound with the real movement of the locomotive. No longer will stopped trains have the brake sound still on!
    Manual notching: The diesel speed steps can be either manually controlled by function keys or automatically based on the speed.
    Individual volume control: The volume of all sound effects can be adjusted individually.

Steam decoders can produce over 20 sound effects, including the bell, air pump, exhaust chuff, coupler, steam release, cylinder cocks, brake release, side rod clank, blower, injector, Fireman Fred and many more. Synchronizing the steam chuff rate by using two CVs only virtually eliminates the need for a cam, but can of course be connected.

Diesel decoders can produce over 20 sound effects, including the engine start-up and shutdown, prime mover sounds through all eight notches, bell, air horn, air compressor, dynamic brakes, fans, brake squeals, coupling and uncoupling, detector sounds, rail clank and many more.
Customize your sounds

Unlike other manufacturers, LokSound Select offers you two options to customize your engine. The most simple is by using one (!) CV. You can select the prime mover sound, the desired whistle or horn and the bell. Each LokSound Select offers various options on that.

However, if you are still unsatisfied with the result, you may at any time use the famous LokSound Programmer to download new sounds into the LokSound Select. We offer numerous “ready-made” sound packages for easy downloading.

That to me does not clearly state that the sounds are only limited to the "sound packages". Just that they offer them. That doesn't sound like they are limit you to just the "sound packages". But can't you still build up your own sound file?


Now V4
From http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-v40/

Sound

The most important element of the new LokSound V4.0 decoders is the sound chip. This is why we have equipped the LokSound V4.0 with an enormous memory of 32 MBit to save up to 276 seconds of original sounds.

The LokSound V4.0 works with 8 polyphonic channels, i.e. that the decoder is able to play up to 8 different sounds simultaneously, using the 16-Bit mixer and the nearly noiseless D/A convertor.

So we can provide a much better monitoring of the original locomotive´s complex elements as it is possible to combine several channels.

You‘ll recognise the difference at once! The sounds will be amplified up to three times louder than before by using a new digital „class D“ amplifier.

We also changed from the old type of speakers to speakers with an impedance of 4 Ohms. Use our provided stock of new developed speakers!

All single sounds of the LokSound V4.0 can be mixed in volume individually on nearly every digital control station.

The new super flexible sound engine without static schedule provides a very prototypical simulation of all railroad vehicles.

Sound variations

ESU, as the technologic and market leader takes your requirements for sound very seriously. There are already more than 200 sound variations available for the LokSound V4.0

ESU is extending the sound library all the time and provides all sounds on our homepage for free download.


Maybe I'm just dense. 

[RBrodzinsky]

I won't debate how to interpret ESU's descriptions.   Let's talk reality

Both Select and V4 support multiple protocols.  For a while, ESU was selling models where you could get all the protocols, or just DC/DCC. Recently, I haven't seen that distinction, and every new decoder I have loaded into LokProgrammer comes up with the CV47 settings enabled (bit 0 = DCC supported; bit 2 = Marklin / Motorola; bit 3 = Selectrix)

Select projects are fully configurable within themselves. Many provide multiple horns/whistles/bells, different prime movers, etc., all selected by CVs. You can configure the project to run how you want it to, on whichever function keys you want. You can even do a "not" operation on functions, require function key combinations, etc. ESU has not provided the end user a way to make their own Select project files, so you cannot change the sounds or their behaviors within a project, only how the sounds are activated and choose between the provided ones.  If you don't like the project loaded, you can change the entire project to another one, with its own selections.

V4 projects are wide open.  You can overwrite a sound with a custom sound of your own choosing. You can program the behaviors within a sound slot, based on other actions the decoder is taking.  You can set [function key transition to on; function key on; function key transition to off; function key off] behaviors within a sound slot.  Quite honestly, it is so wide open, you can make a complete mess of things --- or make beautiful sounding projects if you have the right sounds available. I have only "played" with V4 at this point within the LokProgrammer software.  Even as an experienced programmer, I am not an audio programmer and find it a bit intimidating. 

Hardware wise, the decoders are the same (within each class/size), with the only difference being a microcode setting for V4 vs Select

[jdcolombo]

What Rick said.

This is simply a case where you have to ignore ESU's "documentation" such as it is.  Not only don't they translate their German to English well, but often their descriptions and manuals are several years out of date.  This is my one frustration with ESU - they need to hire someone to write an English-language web site from scratch with proper descriptions, and write new manuals that are up-to-date.  If you want to really know what is going on with ESU's decoders, the best source of info is the ESU Yahoo group, which is populated by a lot of experts on both the V.4 and Select decoders and who speak actual idiomatic English.

But Rick's description is absolutely correct.  The only difference between the Select and V.4 decoders is that the with the Select decoders, you can only use pre-made Select sound files, where as with the V.4, you can build your own sound file from scratch.  The Select decoder was made for the US market and US prototype engines; nearly everyone else uses the V.4's.  Everything else, including the protocols, is identical between the two.

John C.

[peteski]

I wonder why they seem to imply (by not mentioning the others) that the Select version only supports DCC and DC, where in the V4 write-up they really expand on the fact that the deocder automatically handles all the various digital control protocols (and DC).

What is ESU's CV47, and why it is needed for enabling the other digital protocols (when supposedly it is done automatically)?  Speaking of CVs, where can I find all the CVs defined?  I have the V4 and Seelct decoder manuals, and while they have extensive documentation about the function remapping CVs, I dont; see a comprehensive explanation of all the other CVs they use.  Both QSI and Zimo have a detailed explanation off *ALL* *the CVs used on their decoders.

[jdcolombo]

I wonder why they seem to imply (by not mentioning the others) that the Select version only supports DCC and DC, where in the V4 write-up they really expand on the fact that the deocder automatically handles all the various digital control protocols (and DC).

What is ESU's CV47, and why it is needed for enabling the other digital protocols (when supposedly it is done automatically)?  Speaking of CVs, where can I find all the CVs defined?  I have the V4 and Seelct decoder manuals, and while they have extensive documentation about the function remapping CVs, I dont; see a comprehensive explanation of all the other CVs they use.  Both QSI and Zimo have a detailed explanation off *ALL* *the CVs used on their decoders.

I suspect that this is because the Select was designed for the US market, and the other protocols never really caught on here.  In Europe, folks would probably want to know about Marklin and Selectrix; in the US, not so much.

ESU allows you to enable or disable these other protocols via CV47.  They come from the factory with all the protocols enabled; if you want to disable them, you have to change bits in CV47.

AFAIK, there is no comprehensive list of all the CV's used by a LokSound decoder.  There is no "technical reference" manual like Soundtraxx, which lists each CV and its default value.  I think that pretty much all the CV's used are covered in the V.4 manual, but you'd have to go through the manual and write down your own list. 

John C.

[peteski]

Thanks John. Oh well . . .

[nstars]

We use ESU for diesels and both Soundtraxx and ESU for steam.

The multi protocol stuff is indeed more important in Europe than the US. How many of you have seen a Selectrix system? 

Marc

[AKNscale]

That just means that the "Select" product line is exclusive to and and only available from distributors through ESU USA rather than ESU home base in Germany.  The Select is their "cheap" decoder for us Americans that won't pay full price for the V4 series.  The only difference (in most cases) between the two is that the Select requires that you load pre-made by ESU sound files.  With the V4 you can create your own and load using the LokProgrammer software.

It's amazing that the price difference between those two decoders is as much as it is too. In order to do some of the Alaska stuff properly I'd have to use V4s instead of the Selects, but a $30 difference is surprisingly steep and hard to sell someone on

[RBrodzinsky]

SBS4DCC is only about a $15 differential between same sized V4 vs Select. The MSRP difference is $20.

[AKNscale]

I stand corrected, last time I checked there was more of a gap in price.

[reinhardtjh]

I stand corrected, last time I checked there was more of a gap in price.

Last spring, I think, ESU lowered the V4 price to $129 MSRP from $149 (?).  They also raised the Select price by $10 at some time, I don't remember when.  It used to be $99 discounted to $75-79, now it's $109 discounted to $82-89.

Of course, the new 73100/73199 slim form factors only come in Select.

[AKNscale]

The last time I checked I believe the V4.0 was $115 or $120 and the Select was $80 or $82. I’m obviously behind the curve on this.