Author Topic: 12-1 to 13 section Tourist Car  (Read 1502 times)

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JoeD

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12-1 to 13 section Tourist Car
« on: December 21, 2017, 11:57:24 AM »
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Ive been digging around working on a military train project and found a reference that stated that some 12-1's were converted to 13 section tourist cars.  I found info in the Sp book on sleepers, referencing the 13 section but not sure what the conversion involved.  According to the article no exterior changes were made, just an outer door for one of the bathrooms was sealed and access to the room next to it opened to sleep NCO's and officers during the war.   Any help?

Joe
in my civvies here.  I only represent my grandmothers home made Mac and Cheese on Railwire.

sirenwerks

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Re: 12-1 to 13 section Tourist Car
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2017, 12:02:19 PM »
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Any chance of getting a hospital car from MTL?
Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

thomasjmdavis

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Re: 12-1 to 13 section Tourist Car
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2017, 12:27:19 PM »
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Joe,
There is similar information on the modifications in the ATSF Sleeping Car book.  It states that old 12-1s of 2410 through 2410E plans (blt 1910-1916) were converted initially, and as WWII went on, they added 2410F,G,H and some other old sleepers of other configurations to the program. 
It appears that the cars were kept for military use through the Korean War.  ATSF bought a large number in 1953.  7 were given passenger car numbers (1171-1177, nominally coaches or chair cars), although they appear to have been used primarily for moving laborers around the system, sometimes as rider cars on mail trains, and may have occasionally served as dormitory cars or emergency coaches.  The balance of the cars ATSF purchased were converted to work train service.  The 7 "coaches" look in the couple pictures I have seen, essentially unchanged on the exterior.  The distinctions from the MT 12-1 would be the non-pediment roof (common to 24__ series) and double windows at the aisle window locations.  However, with the cars having come from so many original subclasses (2410, 2410A through H) there were no doubt many variations.
Tom D.

I have a mind like a steel trap...a VERY rusty, old steel trap.

thomasjmdavis

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Re: 12-1 to 13 section Tourist Car
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2017, 12:37:08 PM »
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I almost wrote that NONE had AC. But this apparently would have been incorrect.  The ATSF 1173 (nee Tourist Car 5007, nee TC 2350, nee Parisian) had AC installed, according to ATSF, in 1935.  Photo of the car taken in 1963 in the ATSF Chair Car book shows car with busted windows, waiting for conversion to work service, with rooftop AC ducts.  But that is the only car of the ones purchased by ATSF that is indicated as having AC, so we can probably say very FEW had AC.
Tom D.

I have a mind like a steel trap...a VERY rusty, old steel trap.

JoeD

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Re: 12-1 to 13 section Tourist Car
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2017, 12:41:03 PM »
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Any chance of getting a hospital car from MTL?

I've been doing some leg work on it... :)

Joe
in my civvies here.  I only represent my grandmothers home made Mac and Cheese on Railwire.

jmlaboda

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Re: 12-1 to 13 section Tourist Car
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2017, 12:58:41 PM »
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Simply enough... the Drawing Room with its three births was sold as a Section fare, nothing more.  Little if any changes were made to the room... but this is the first time I have read something about a bathroom being sealed off.

Probably the best place to get more answers would be the Passenger Car List at Yahoo! Groups.  Most of what I have learned over the years came from information shared on the List!!!

Quote
The distinctions from the MT 12-1 would be the non-pediment roof (common to 24__ series) and double windows at the aisle window locations.

The Plan 2410H cars introduced the pediment ends and they had a carbody that is a fairly close match to that of the MT Plan 3410 car with only a few dimensions being different.  It was the Plan 2410F from 1916 that introduced the window pattern used on the 2410H and 3410/3410A cars and even some of them were rebuilt with pediment ends.  Minor differences in some measurements was the result of the Plan 3410 cars being roughly a foot plus longer than their predecessors but it would not be too much of a stretch to use the MT model to represent one of the earlier cars.

The biggest problem with using the MT Plan 3410 car is that the model has AC air ducts and AC equipment under the carbody, much of which was not present on most of the cars that were reassigned to "Tourist" service.  My Plan 3410 Roster page details which cars were involved... searching for "TC" in the Notes to the right of every listing will help folks find which cars were converted as well as some dispositions, where known...

It may not be too unreasonable of a kitbashing to use the MT 3410 with the pediment ends being replaced with those of the twin-windowed coach with the roof of two models being adapted to fit the sleeper.  Have not investigated the viability of such but it can be done... the problem really is that N is so much smaller to work with so it is a bit more challenging to do such conversions.

One thing that is badly needed for modeling a troop train is a non-AC roof... that in itself would go a long ways towards making tourist cars a whole lot easier... heck, us modelers could easily remove the AC equipment from under the car (for placement on an MT coach???), though that is something else that can be addressed by a manufacturer.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 01:01:00 PM by jmlaboda »

sirenwerks

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Re: 12-1 to 13 section Tourist Car
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2017, 03:43:01 PM »
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I've been doing some leg work on it... :)

Joe


I got an article from the 9/45 Railroad Magazine that might help. It has drawings of the AC&F design. I'll shoot it to you backstage.
Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.