Pennsylvania Railroad Juniata Division 2.0

[jpec]

Bullshit.

(Attachment Link)

I  amend my reply...it's glued down so well the train can run upside down and not lose a pebble.

JP

[chicken45]

I don't see a spot for the bacon mines?

[chris.mincemoyer]

Dave,

With your mention of the Buffalo Line, why not replace Altoona with Northumberland.  After all that's where most of the existing Pennsy steam was "hidden."

Chris

[reinhardtjh]

The vignettes idea makes sense to me.  Dave has repeatedly said he's not an ops guy.  Look at his layout drawings. Look at his sketches in the Crew Lounge.  Dave is an art guy - he like scenes that provoke a certain memory or feeling.  He likes to photograph scenes, not figure the most efficient switch list.  Sure, some switching possibilities are good in any case in certain areas, but to me, reading what Dave has written, is that he's into creating the moment. 

So you have an area devoted to a typical Pennsy small town with switching for when you do feel like pushing cars around.  And an area devoted to a 4-track main with some signature scenery/structures. And an area with catenary or  the Rockville Bridge.  Whatever you're feeling at the moment.

Maybe you do separate them with some hard barrier.  Then if you get the urge it's easy to strip up a section and redo it as some other scene you have an urge to create.  The layout becomes a living thing and continually changes. It never grows old, never becomes stale.

Dave, I sense frustration at this thread. I hope I haven't added to it, but I see posts that seem to me that are projecting their own desires on what you say.  Me, I'm an ops guy. I like to switch. I may never senick an area and it's okay with me.  I like pushing cars around.  I sense different feelings for you.

[chicken45]

I've been going through a very similar thought process since I got that new layout. I've also been talking to Ed!
Everything you guys are talking about here is helping me too, so, thanks!

[Rich_S]

RIVISED Givens

Okay, candidate lines:

1)  Buffalo line...  Just about any part.  I'm most familiar with the part from Harrisburg to Northumberland, but Renovo looks hawt too.
2)  Monongahela line...  Don't know much about this one but I understand it was sexy with lots of coal traffic.
3)  Schuylkill Branch...  At least Philly to Reading part was substantial.  Coal traffic, electrified commuter service, lots of industrial stuff near Philly.
4)  Northern Central...  York to Harrisburg probably didn't see M1bs, but the part that ran as part of the Buffalo Line to Norry sure did.

Dave, The Mon line is sexy, but your forgetting about the Panhandle ( Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis Railroad ) Pittsburgh, PA to East St Louis, IL. The section you'd want to model would be from Scully Yard to Mingo Jct, OH. During the era you're interested in, the Panhandle was a double track railroad that handled every type of merchandise imaginable, coal, iron ore and coke for Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel and Weirton Steel. Steel shipments from those two mills, plus all the associated general freight into and out of the Pittsburgh & Ohio Valley Region, plus passenger service between Pittsburgh, Columbus, Indianapolis and St Louis.  Amtrak even operated over the Panhandle for the first few years of it's existence.

The Panhandle just might be what you need, to get the Pennsy creative juices flowing 

[Dave V]

Dave, The Mon line is sexy, but your forgetting about the Panhandle ( Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis Railroad ) Pittsburgh, PA to East St Louis, IL. The section you'd want to model would be from Scully Yard to Mingo Jct, OH. During the era you're interested in, the Panhandle was a double track railroad that handled every type of merchandise imaginable, coal, iron ore and coke for Wheeling Pittsburgh Steel and Weirton Steel. Steel shipments from those two mills, plus all the associated general freight into and out of the Pittsburgh & Ohio Valley Region, plus passenger service between Pittsburgh, Columbus, Indianapolis and St Louis.  Amtrak even operated over the Panhandle for the first few years of it's existence.

The Panhandle just might be what you need, to get the Pennsy creative juices flowing 

I did post this earlier...

I could...  But I'm a Pennsylvania Guy.  So caveat to my caveat...  Keeping it in the Keystone State.

But I'm going with the "vignettes of Pennsy" thing contained within Pennsylvania.  I actually have a plan in my head now that actually does include more simulated 4-track.  Not socializing it yet.  I think socializing these ideas among such a large audience might not be as helpful as I was hoping.  Everyone raises good points but I don't know that everyone has a good vibe for what I'm really trying to do.

[basementcalling]

Dave, what about a dogbone style layout with double track, in essence a double dogbone to give you the 4 track main you want. Stack the loops and that gives you lots of room for the main to wander on one side of a peninsula for a PA countryside scene and a straight town scene on the other.

I'm not sure of your dimensions. You've shown them in several places and they differ each time, but a 9 x 9 area could work from my AnyRail sketching. I'll share if you want.

[Rich_S]

I did post this earlier...

But I'm going with the "vignettes of Pennsy" thing contained within Pennsylvania.  I actually have a plan in my head now that actually does include more simulated 4-track.  Not socializing it yet.  I think socializing these ideas among such a large audience might not be as helpful as I was hoping.  Everyone raises good points but I don't know that everyone has a good vibe for what I'm really trying to do.

Dave, That is why I said you'd want to model the section between Scully yard (Pittsburgh suburb) and put Mingo in staging. You would be modeling the Pennsylvania section of the Panhandle. I think what you really want is Central and Eastern Pennsylvania. The Pennsylvania Railroad was almost like two different railroads within the state of Pennsylvania. Lines West did have a different feel than the lines East. The Broadway pretty much ended at Conway. Yes four tracks ran to New Brighton, but from that point, the main line was double track West to Chicago and at New Brighton, the other two tracks became the Youngstown Line. As a side note, the Panhandle Split off the Mon Line at the OC bridge just West of Downtown Pittsburgh. Another Option could be the Conemaugh Line, but again I think you want Central and Eastern PA. 

I'm looking forward to following along with your build of the JD 2.0 

[Dave V]

Dave, what about a dogbone style layout with double track, in essence a double dogbone to give you the 4 track main you want. Stack the loops and that gives you lots of room for the main to wander on one side of a peninsula for a PA countryside scene and a straight town scene on the other.

I'm not sure of your dimensions. You've shown them in several places and they differ each time, but a 9 x 9 area could work from my AnyRail sketching. I'll share if you want.

I was using 9 x 9 because I know things will fit.  The reality is I have a hair over 10 feet along the bottom wall in the room plan and about 9.5' along the left wall in the room plan until I get too close to the Midland.

I'm not stacking loops.  Grades/clearance issues...ugh.

I have a plan in mind now.  Thanks for all your inputs!

[OldEastRR]

Yay for vignettes! It's really the best way to think of a layout. Anybody, consider your favorite scenes on your favorite railroad. Wow, they're neat. But usually to get from one to another the real train takes a long boring time just running along monotonously through not so spectacular or repetitious scenery. As does the engineer. We're lucky with layouts that we can put all the scenes we like close to each other and not have to include the long dull stretches of nothing ROW. Guys complain that they'd really like to have long mainlines to space out the time the train takes to get from one scene to the next. For those guys I say, add a helix to your layout. To enjoy the experience go run on one at a private or club layout. (Try to find a  6-10 loops helix). Wait for the train to go in at one end and eventually come out the other (have faith, it will). Isn't that fun??? I'll bet you want to do that between every scenic area you have. It's so fun and so like running a real train it's a wonder why everybody doesn't have a helix or 2 on their layout!