How to control multiple turnouts for route selection

[Bart1701]

I had to redesign my hidden staging yard a bit recently to allow my N-Gauge Kato 4-8-4 to make it through without derailing. Now that this problem is solved, I need to re-do the control panel that controls the remote turnouts in the yard since the track schematic on the panel no longer matches real life.

The current panel had a track diagram with momentary contact buttons wired to control each individual turnout's direction. That now seems more complicated than I needed since I am just trying to line up the turnouts for an unoccupied track in the yard to either use as a pass-through track or in order to park a train on one of the tracks. It was a pain to have to press a bunch of buttons to align one of the routes.

In my redesign, I'd like to be able to just select the desired route and then press a single button to get all of the turnouts lined up correctly. But, I need some help figuring out the easiest, least complicated way to do this and what components I will need.  I could use some ideas, please!

To provide a few more details, there are 8 turnouts in the yard with 5 tracks. They are all Atlas Remote N-Gauge turnouts.

I think I'll need the most help in figuring out what to use to select the route (a rotary switch or some other device) and how to handle the fact that multiple routes can require the same direction (straight or divergent) for some turnouts (a bunch of wires from different routes all going to the same turnout wire?).

I think that should give a basic idea of what I am trying to do. Ask any questions you might have if you need more info.

Thanks,
Bart

[Paradise275]

These Guys have a control we use for our club. Switches can be fired with a push button or from a hand held throttle.

 http://www.teamdigital1.com/

Rick

[jagged ben]

You haven't mentioned anything about DCC or decoders so I gather you want an all- analog solution.  [EDIT:  Didn't see at first that you mentioned Atlas switch machines.] 

The easiest way is with a diode matrix.   The example in the attached diagram is for Tortoises but could be adapted for your twin coil switch machines.  You would not have any of the resistors at the bottom, and instead the 'middle' wire of each of your switch machines would return to ground.   Otherwise the diagram would work pretty much as shown.

One thing:  if you want to use a rotary switch with your machines, place a momentary push button in front of it in series.  (You may also want to put a capacitor in this circuit to have enough power, but that's a bit more complicated.)

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[peteski]

The turnouts mentioned were "They are all Atlas Remote N-Gauge turnouts". I assume they are all twin-coil machines.  Still a diode matrix would probably be the easiest solution.  Just different from jagged Ben's (since he shows Tortoise machines).

Doing a Google search for "diode matrix turnout control" should yield some good information.

[jagged ben]

Of course peteski already replied before I noticed my mistake and fixed it.   

I also wanted to mention that the best way to physically build this sort of thing is with electronics stripboard.  Your creation might look kinda like this:

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/data/jbvb/201071722276_matrix1.jpg

which happens to be by a guy doing the same thing as you.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/pop_printer_friendly.asp?TOPIC_ID=20091

I don't know terminology, but there's a type of this board that has all the holes of each row connected with a metal contact on one side.  That's easier to use.  You basically just need enough rows for all your inputs and outputs, each one gets a row and you connect them on the other side.

[Bart1701]

Thanks for your ideas!  I think I now have a good idea of what I need to do. I'll post again with any questions I might have once I have studied the suggestions.

Thanks,
Bart

[Bart1701]

A couple of follow-up questions:

1) My turnouts are Atlas Remote ones, so they'll be using AC power from the AC accessories terminals on an older transformer I have. In looking online at Radio Shack, there are a lot of different variations/specifications for diodes. Can someone tell me what the specs are for the diodes I should be using with a diode matrix for this application?

2) Solid or stranded wire for all of the various connections I'll be making between a rotary switch, a momentary contact switch, terminal strips and likely a solderable electronics project board? I've used solid wire for most everything else on the layout, but am wondering if there is any value in using stranded wire for all or some of the wiring I'll be doing.

3) What gauge wire would be best for this application?

Thanks much!
Bart

[peteski]

A couple of follow-up questions:

1) My turnouts are Atlas Remote ones, so they'll be using AC power from the AC accessories terminals on an older transformer I have. In looking online at Radio Shack, there are a lot of different variations/specifications for diodes. Can someone tell me what the specs are for the diodes I should be using with a diode matrix for this application?

Since you will be sending power to several coils at a time, the AC output from the power pack might not have enough amperage to power them all tat the same time.  Plus many diode matrices are designed to work with DC power.  You might as well build a capacitive discharge power supply. Those are designed to have enough "juice" to power several switch machine solenoids at the same time.

The latest issue on the N-Scale magazine shows you how to construct this type of power supply.

Diode rating should be mentioned in some of the diode matrix examples floating around on the Internet.  If not, I think that a 50V voltage rating would be sufficient and I would go for a 3A current diodes (which have much higher peak surge current rating).  1A diodes would probably be ok too (since their peak surge current is 30A).

Here is some info on the those diodes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1N4001_and_1N5400_series_diodes

2) Solid or stranded wire for all of the various connections I'll be making between a rotary switch, a momentary contact switch, terminal strips and likely a solderable electronics project board? I've used solid wire for most everything else on the layout, but am wondering if there is any value in using stranded wire for all or some of the wiring I'll be doing.

3) What gauge wire would be best for this application?

Solid or stranded is totally up to your discretion. Stranded is easier to work with (is is more flexible) but electrically either one will work.

What gauge?  It depends on the length of wire runs.  I would probably use at least 18 or 20 AWG wire. The longer the run, the thicker the wire which should be used (to keep the wire resistance low).

[jagged ben]

N4001 diodes is probably plenty sufficient for you.  N 5400 diodes would definitely be.

Solid or stranded, up to you.

20 gauge wire or larger is probably fine.  You would be hard pressed to cause a fire with normal operation, just watch to make sure you don't cause a short while building it.   If you build the type of power supply that peteski's suggesting then wire size should be less of an issue.

[Bart1701]

Wow!  A capacitive discharge power supply! You guys are trying to make an electrical engineer out of me. As long as it doesn't involve plutonium rods or dilithium crystals, I willing to give it a try. But, you can bet that I'll posting a diagram of my plans before I solder anything together! Don't want to burn my house down 

Seriously, thanks for the advice and be expecting some more questions!

Bart

[peteski]

Wow!  A capacitive discharge power supply! You guys are trying to make an electrical engineer out of me.

Just one of the many facets of this wonderful (and very fulfilling) hobby. 

[Bart1701]

This weekend will be my trip to the Hobby Shop and an Electronic store to get most of what I expect I will need to build my diode matrix and capacitive discharge power supply. I'll be getting the issue of N-Scale magazine to see their article on the power supply. I found this while surfing the web ( http://www.awrr.com/cdsupply.html )and am guessing that the basic principles will be the same as what the magazine shows?

So, DC power will be used to power the twin coil Atlas turnouts? No issues or concerns with that?

Looking at my matrix that needs to be able to handle the routing for 5 different staging tracks, will the power supply be able to drive as many turnouts that might be required. There are a total of 8 turnouts involved ( 4 at each end of the staging yard) and the number of turnouts that will need to be thrown varies from 4 to 6 turnouts per route.

The article I provided the link for says "This Supply has enough "oomph" to activate two switch motors simultaneously". So, I am concerned about my situation with needing to throw up to 6 switches simultaneously. 

Ideas and suggestions?

Thanks,
Bart

[peteski]

This weekend will be my trip to the Hobby Shop and an Electronic store to get most of what I expect I will need to build my diode matrix and capacitive discharge power supply. I'll be getting the issue of N-Scale magazine to see their article on the power supply. I found this while surfing the web ( http://www.awrr.com/cdsupply.html )and am guessing that the basic principles will be the same as what the magazine shows?

The circuit you found is similar in theory but has different value components. The one in the magazine has a larger cap using for driving the switch machines (it has more oomph).  Also some of the components are poorly chosen.

So, DC power will be used to power the twin coil Atlas turnouts? No issues or concerns with that?

No problems.

Looking at my matrix that needs to be able to handle the routing for 5 different staging tracks, will the power supply be able to drive as many turnouts that might be required. There are a total of 8 turnouts involved ( 4 at each end of the staging yard) and the number of turnouts that will need to be thrown varies from 4 to 6 turnouts per route.

The article I provided the link for says "This Supply has enough "oomph" to activate two switch motors simultaneously". So, I am concerned about my situation with needing to throw up to 6 switches simultaneously. 

The circuit described the magazine should be able to handle that. If not we can always add another or bigger capacitor.