U.P. Helper Caboose Position

[robert3985]

I'm modeling the U.P. between Ogden and Wahsatch Utah, and I'm pretty much up on where the caboose goes for this helper district.  However, in another post on another forum, I mistakenly assumed that all U.P. cabooses, system-wide went on the back of the helper engines.  It was pointed out to me (with an accompanying photo) that on Cajon Pass, U.P. placed the cabooses in front of the helper...at least steel cabooses.

The main difference between the two areas was caboose type.  On the Wasatch Grade, the vast majority of cabooses assigned to this district were wooden CA and CA-1 cabooses with either steel reinforced frames or riveted steel frames.  For cabooses used on the helper district ending at Cajon Pass, the vast majority (or maybe all)  of cabooses after 1949 or so, were steel CA-3's, 4's or 5's while steam was still being used as helper power.

Could it be that U.P. changed its caboose helper positioning because of the distribution of types of cabooses and where they were assigned?

It would be interesting and informative for me if anybody has a photo or photos of a wooden CA or CA-1 being pushed in front of a helper engine anywhere on the U.P. in the transition era (1942 through 1958 sounds good), or documentation of what the U.P. rules say.

Thanks in advance.

[up1950s]

I have a shot of 3979 pushing over the Weber Canyon bridge with a CA-1 in tow . I think pushing a woody was verboten on a heavy train unless you were out of toothpicks . There was a famous incident on a class 1 out east that got everyone's attention . Super power steam just had too much traction and power .

[nkalanaga]

The body construction doesn't matter on most roads.  As long as the caboose has a steel underframe rated for pushing it can be used ahead of the helpers.  Most modern caboose underframes were as strong as any boxcar, but some of the early ones were less substantial. 

If the caboose has a wooden underframe it goes behind the helper, period.  As Richie said, the results otherwise are toothpicks, and likely dead or maimed crew. 

[robert3985]

Otto sent me several photos of U.P. helpers on Cajon Pass with cabooses in front of the helper.  One photo distinctly shows two steel CA-3/4's and a wooden CA-1 (modified in the LA Shops with a high cupola) being shoved along with them.

Of course, the CA-1's had steel underframes as opposed to the Common Standard CA's, which had steel reinforced wooden frames.

However, U.P. shopped a few CA-1's to specifically refit them with even stronger frames as indicated by Don Strack in his Utah Rails website.  The CA's were almost all shopped to refit them with stronger steel frames which is why the last wooden caboose on the U.P. lasted into the '70's.  Good cars.

That particular CA-1 with the extra high cupola is well documented as being rebuilt by the LA Shops from a slightly wrecked non-typical CA-1 (CA body on CA-1 steel underframe)...so it gets "more complicateder" as I get deeper into it.

I agree that as a general practice, wooden cabooses were not shoved.  The U.P., on the other hand, seemed to shove them on Cajon Pass, but never never shoved any cabooses on the Wasatch Grade, either wood or steel....and I don't see any rhyme nor reason to it, unless there was a formula for train tonnage and grade percentage that mandated cabooses be placed a certain way on different grades in differently trafficked areas of the road.  But, that is just conjecture on my part.

Maybe Don knows the answer.  If so, I'll post it here.