higher watt speaker vs. larger size which is better?

[DKS]

Funny, and I find running without sound like watching a silent Buster Keaton movie, to the point I don't even bother running non sound stuff...to each his own I guess. Or maybe you haven't been exposed to decent quality "tightly enclosured" sound from a good decoder like the Tsunami or Loksound? 
The other comment I'd make is that sound is IMHO much more believable in a home layout setting with low ambient sound levels then clubs or especially shows, where it just gets drowned out by the masses...

I've been exposed to some of the industry's "finest" sound, as in large-scale stuff. Trouble is, anything smaller than 1:1 sounds smaller than 1:1, and the smaller it is, the poorer the sound, until you reach N, at which point I'm in the "why bother?" camp. I simply find the buzzing drone of diesels or the fanciful hissing and "chiffing" (I would not call it "chuffing") of steam to be highly annoying, like a small swarm of mosquitoes that won't leave you alone. To me, model sound seems like the high-tech equivalent of wearing the engineer's cap and blowing the wooden whistle. But, as you say, to each his own. If it floats your boat, go for it!

As for operating in a "Buster Keaton movie," my preference actually is not complete silence. I enjoy playing very soft "nature" sounds in the background, like crickets or the rustle of leaves. Since they are non-focal sounds, they are more enveloping, and they can be enjoyed in full fidelity. I also find these sounds to be soothing and good for one's blood pressure--in contrast to the effect of grating noise model sound has on me. Besides... locomotives are not the only noisemakers on a train; when will someone address the rest of the rolling stock? All those clicking wheels and clanking couplers?

[LV LOU]

Since I have no way of actually testing this since I have no sound equipped locos,I still gotta wonder...The speaker and enclosure are extremely important to sound quality,so,why not the actual RAILROAD?? Most layouts are built with methods to quiet the trains down,homasote subroadbed,ETC,perhaps using stuff the amplifies sound like Styrofoam would actually help amplify and enhance the sound,perhaps even track height,C55 compared to say,C80,may even effect it..Just saying..

[wcfn100]

at which point I'm in the "why bother?" camp.

For the most part I think sound is a novelty (I have one CZ baggage car I did just for fun), but I will say that having a horn (and maybe the bell) does give a different and welcome dimension to the models regardless of how it sounds.

Aside from everything sound decoders do, blowing the horn at a crossing just feels right and it does seem like something's missing when it's not there.

Jason

[robert3985]

Funny, and I find running without sound like watching a silent Buster Keaton movie, to the point I don't even bother running non sound stuff...to each his own I guess. Or maybe you haven't been exposed to decent quality "tightly enclosured" sound from a good decoder like the Tsunami or Loksound? 
The other comment I'd make is that sound is IMHO much more believable in a home layout setting with low ambient sound levels then clubs or especially shows, where it just gets drowned out by the masses...
Just my admittedly subjective opinion,
Otto K.

I agree with you 100% Otto.  Prototype railroads used whistle signals (and continue to do so) all the time while running or switching.  An engine without at least a whistle or horn and bell is just missing something in my book nowadays, and like you, I find that my non-sound equipped engines are sitting a lot more than my ones with Loksound or Tsunamis installed.

I agree also that a carpeted train room with an acoustical ceiling makes a big difference in the sound quality coming out of my little speakers as opposed to cranking up the sound so it can be heard at the shows above the crowd noise.  However, I find it highly rewarding that good decoders and speakers will allow sound that loud when the speaker is only 13mm or so in diameter!

I have high hopes for my latest sound installation in my Kato E's with Digitrax sound decoders.  I'll test them sometime later today when I haul my butt out of bed!

I have a couple of buddies who feel a lot like DKS, that no sound is better than N-scale sound.  Each to his own, but I could not disagree more.  When I turn the knob on my DT402R throttle down quickly and the chuff goes quiet on my Tsunami-ized Athearn Big Boy, and I can hear the rods clanking and the brakes squeal as it slowly comes to a stop...then the bell starts up, I de-couple it from its train...two short whistle blasts and it starts up slowly towards the Echo coaling tower...I get a great big smile on my face almost every time! Sound adds a new dimension in what I'm expected to do as the engineer of that engine, and I love it.

Cheers!
Bob Gilmore

[Cajonpassfan]

Bob, nice to see someone as excited about this stuff as I am. I also think the quality is continuing to improve dramatically with new decoders and speakers. Please let us know what you think of the Digitraxx install. BTW, I'll send you a PM about our GBG visit in two weeks if that's okay.
Take care, Otto

[DKS]

Sound adds a new dimension in what I'm expected to do as the engineer of that engine, and I love it.

Ah, thus I believe we get to the crux of it, why sound is important to you and annoying to me. The difference is that I have no desire to be the engineer; I am strictly an observer. Yes, I operate the locomotives and such, but that is merely to put things in motion. For whatever reason, I have never wanted to pretend I'm the engineer--way to close to the hat-wearing, whistle-tooting crowd. Or to own/operate a railroad--too much like a job! I derive my enjoyment entirely from watching, and while it's always clear to me I'm looking at a model, sound (owing to its limitations) makes the model less realistic instead of more.

[robert3985]

Ah, thus I believe we get to the crux of it, why sound is important to you and annoying to me. The difference is that I have no desire to be the engineer; I am strictly an observer. Yes, I operate the locomotives and such, but that is merely to put things in motion. For whatever reason, I have never wanted to pretend I'm the engineer--way to close to the hat-wearing, whistle-tooting crowd. Or to own/operate a railroad--too much like a job! I derive my enjoyment entirely from watching, and while it's always clear to me I'm looking at a model, sound (owing to its limitations) makes the model less realistic instead of more.

Sooooo....no sound at all is more realistic than poor sound?...Especially when the prototype was very noisy indeed?  Hmmmm....that just doesn't make sense to me.  Sound is simply one more part of the animation of model trains and I find this way of looking at it ironic coming from who I consider to be the king of N and Z scale animation.

Following your logic train (pun intended), since model trains move poorly in comparison to the inertia induced smoothness of the prototypes, they should be more realistic if they were completely static.

The great difference between model railroading and almost all of the other model building hobbies is this:  In model railroading you get to not only just look at your work and admire it, you get to operate it...in an environment that you have created...which can be your fantasy, or a representation of a prototype time and place.  You can also just induce movement, or on the opposite end of the spectrum, you can operate your animated model world as close to prototypically as possible...including role-playing such roles as dispatcher, yard master, engineer, fireman, conductor or more. Model railroading is the most diverse hobby I am aware of that entails miniatures....and everybody eventually finds their niche.

I'm so into the sound that when I run an engine that is just straight DCC, I will actually voice the horn or whistle before I go forward or into reverse...or when I'm nearing a grade crossing!  Hahaha...My grown son is starting to do that too!

I plan on getting into costume at the shows...bib overalls, boots, red bandana, watch on a chain (my grandfather's)...and (horrors!!) an engineer's hat!

I am, after all, simply a grown man who loves to play with his toy trains....

Cheers!
Bob Gilmore

[DKS]

Following your logic train (pun intended), since model trains move poorly in comparison to the inertia induced smoothness of the prototypes, they should be more realistic if they were completely static.

Ahh, one who enjoys taking logic to the absurd extreme. No, for me it is merely a personal preference. When I see a realistically modeled scene, I don't care to hear some tinny, feeble attempt at recreating the actual sound, and you are in fact correct: for me, silence is better than the screeching, buzzing or snapping of "state of the art" N scale sound. It disturbs the sounds generated by my imagination (so few of us left that still use this any more, it seems), which is fueled by good visual effects, often enhanced by good animation. As illogical as it may seem, poor sound is to me a distraction from an attempt to create a convincing visual effect--as if the model is screaming, "Hey! I'm a model!" So, one could say, given a choice, I'd rather be deaf than blind.

Yet the hobby is more than diverse enough that role-players--who I am certain outnumber us mere bystanders many-fold--can play that role to whatever degree one may prefer. Go ahead, blow the whistle! That's your desire, then do so, and without reservation. Pay no heed to those very few of us who prefer to stand on the sidelines and just watch the show. And while I may snicker at the horn-tooters, it's done with a wink, so please don't take me seriously. For I too am a grown man who plays with toy trains. I just don't want to hear them, that is all.