Author Topic: Why not code 40 rail for Z scale track?  (Read 5631 times)

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Dave V

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Re: Why not code 40 rail for Z scale track?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2017, 10:52:09 AM »
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Maybe.  Maybe not.  Who knows?  You're just guessing.   Define "mainstream use" please.  How "robust" does track need to be?  How do we measure and quantify "robust"???

We're all just guessing, aren't we?

Mainstream use is exactly what it sounds like...the majority of model railroaders who just want to get something set up and running.  I don't usually consider the crew here at TRW to be the "mainstream."  Like for N scale I'd consider N-Trak to be "mainstream."

Track needs to be "robust" enough that you can put it together and pull it apart without the rail lifting out of the spikes.  Smaller profile rail usually means the spike heads on commercial track have to be lower to clear the wheel flanges which usually means the spike heads are thinner and have a less "robust" grip on the rail foot.  Compare Atlas code 80 and Atlas code 55...  The code 80 spike "feet" have a death grip on the rail whereas the code 55 spikes are much more "dainty" and it's much easier to accidentally lift a rail out of the tie bed.

^If this has never been a problem for you with any kind of track, count yourself lucky.  I'm using Atlas code 55 track on my Colorado Midland and doing so with some neurological damage so I do have trouble with the track coming apart sometimes.

At least these are the definitions I was using.  I don't have a dog in this fight.

EDIT:  You're comparing your handlaid track to commercial track...  I don't think that's a fair comparison.  Depending on how you do it, I should think soldered hand-laid track is vastly more robust than commercial track on a strip of plastic ties whose only connective link are hundreds of molded spikes each smaller than a fruit fly.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 11:07:19 AM by Dave Vollmer »

jdcolombo

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Re: Why not code 40 rail for Z scale track?
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2017, 11:47:55 AM »
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My test for "robustness" is how the track holds up on an N-trak module.  Over the 27 years I've been a member of an N-trak club, what I've found is that by far the most robust track in N scale is Peco Code 55.  And as Dave Vollmer points out, this has almost everything to do with how the rail is attached to the ties, not the size of the rail itself.  Peco Code 55 uses a code 80 rail that is embedded in the ties so that only the Code 55 portion shows.  The spike detail on this track is just for show; the real holding power for the rail is the embedded rail design.  And the result is that this stuff is nearly indestructible.  In the N-trak module environment, where the ends of modules get heavily abused on setup, teardown and storage, even Atlas Code 80 track is "fragile" in that the rail at the ends of the modules will come apart after about a dozen setup/teardown cycles.  The spikes holding the rail just aren't up to the abuse.  Ends get caught on clothing, banged against other modules, etc.  But not Peco Code 55.  That stuff hangs on forever.  The downside is that the ties are pretty thick, although this completely disappears upon ballasting.

So I agree with Dave's addendum - if you are hand laying Code 40 rail via soldering to PC board ties every third or fourth tie, this construction will be VERY robust and very reliable.  If, on the other hand, we're talking about commercial track that will have the rail held by molded spike heads that are close to "scale" for the Code 40 rail, then the track is going to be fragile, with many opportunities for it to come apart during track laying, ballasting, etc.  Too bad someone doesn't make a North American prototype Code 40 rail the way Peco makes its Code 55 - that would be very robust!

John C.


Chris333

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Re: Why not code 40 rail for Z scale track?
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2017, 01:56:06 PM »
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I don't know. I find handlaid track very fragile. I've never had a piece of flextrack kink one year after installing. I think using flextrack and hand laying turnouts is the way to go. Handlaying a whole layout is just asking for constant headaches. No matter how much prep I do a solder joint that is sitting for a year will just pop, and this is sitting in my basement never being moved around. Maybe my problems are how well I attach the track, it can't move so when it does it pops loose. But when I've glued down to cork that would let it move. It was worse.

Flextrack can move around a little without breaking, but handlaid track will destroy itself even if let alone.

This is why I want C40 flex so bad. I consider Z scale impossible without it.

My Main layout is ME C55 with handlaid turnouts and in 2 years nothing has gone wrong with the track.

CNscale

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Re: Why not code 40 rail for Z scale track?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2017, 12:07:56 PM »
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I have to disagree with the "handlaid track is very fragile" comment. My layout is 90% handlaid code40. (I have code 80 flextrack and Peco turnouts in a tunnel and staging yard). The code40 is just glued to the ties with Pliobond. I have had some problems due to benchwork swelling and shrinking (in spite of my attempts to control the basement humidity) - if I don't leave sufficient gaps in the rail it may kink and throw the track out of gauge. In that case I simply shorten the section of rail a millimetre or so and heat it up with a soldering iron to glue it down again. But a section of Atlas code 80 flextrack inside the tunnel popped a rail right out of the spikes and I had to rip the whole thing out, ties and all, to fix it.
I agree that Peco-style code 40 flextrack would be great, but I assume Peco has a patent on it, so they're the only ones who could offer it and then we'd still have the tie spacing ugliness.

Lemosteam

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Re: Why not code 40 rail for Z scale track?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2017, 07:39:31 AM »
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I knew there was something out there.

Roll your own:

Quote from Jimmo on another thread:

Roy Stevens sells tie strips for code 40 rail to make Nn3 (Nn40) flex track on Shapeways. He even has turnout tie strips in point and stub.
https://www.shapeways.com/product/BTX66NG4A/nn3-code-40-ties?li=shop-results&optionId=42996270

Here are the turnouts:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/VER73B2ZZ/nn3-no6-switch-4l-4r?optionId=43024594
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 07:41:35 AM by Lemosteam »

narrowminded

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Re: Why not code 40 rail for Z scale track?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2017, 05:06:21 PM »
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I knew there was something out there.

Roll your own:

Quote from Jimmo on another thread:

Here are the turnouts:
https://www.shapeways.com/product/VER73B2ZZ/nn3-no6-switch-4l-4r?optionId=43024594

I've looked at them and was very tempted to try the switches but just can't envision working with that in FUD.  I wonder if they would render OK in nylon?  Or maybe the material does work OK.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 05:09:06 PM by narrowminded »
Mark G.