Amateur needs Help/Advice to weather a covered hopper

[ednadolski]

Hi Everyone,

I'd like to ask for some help/advice/input.  I'm trying to weather a BN ribside covered hopper, to capture an effect like in the prototype photos below.  I've tried a variety of washes with acrylics/gouaches/powders, but more than anything I just seem to be making an ever-growing mess of it -- pretty clear evidence of my amateur status, and that I have no clue as to what I am doing here.

How would you guys approach this, to get the kind of effect in the photos?

One thing is, I cannot keep the washes from pooling around the ribs & raised areas, so it doesn't deposit the pigments on the flat surfaces where I want them.  Are my washes too wet?  Do I need multiple (5? 6? more?) really thin layers?  Am I too impatient if I try to move things around before they set/dry?  Do you work under a warm lamp to force things to dry more quickly?   How do you keep the washes from leaving that telltale water-mark 'edge'?

Another question: how critical is the windshield wash as a thinner?  I've had that leave some bluish tinting, so I've been playing with other glass cleaners, alcohol, etc. but they don't seem to work out all that well.

At this point I am not sure I can recover from the mess I've made of this one, but if not then hopefully I can at least learn enough to do better next time.

Thanks for your patience with me.

Ed

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=18425
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=19896
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=21529
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=21590

[tom mann]

Try thicker acrylic washes, let them dry, and then remove some with 70% alcohol.  You can work under a lamp, but acrylics dry so fast that I don't think it's necessary or even advantageous.

Maybe this video will help:  http://picasaweb.google.com/tmann1/TrainVideos/photo?authkey=wZXlq0LtnyA#5065900735512451842

WW fluid is just a cheap source of thinner, nothing special.  Ed K uses $5 Vodka. 

[Sokramiketes]

If you're having a lot of problems with pooling washes, then chances are your surface is too glossy.  Try dullcoat as step #1 and apply washes on top of that.  The little bit of tooth from a flat finish should keep your washes on the flat surfaces.

Not like you need more products to buy, as lots of folks here show great results with acrylics... but one reason I use oils is that they have much less surface tension, when mixed with mineral spirits, than any water based wash I've played with. They also dry a lot slower, so you can work unthinned pigment around for a long time without it drying in a tell-tale puddle.

 

[ryourstone]

Are you using the clear washer fluid or the cloudy winter stuff? I've never had the blue cause a color change in the paint 

One thing you can try is thicken the wash with some powdered chalk. This will also give it the ultra-flat grime texture and keep it from pooling. Blot it on with a paper towel, let it partially dry, then wipe down vertically with a damp brush and remove all wash from the rib surfaces.

Old photo, but this is probably the closest example I have of this technique:

http://www.ryourstone.com/rdg/rdg_lof_2.jpg

-Rich

[ednadolski]

Thanks everyone for the info, this is very helpful stuff.

It may sound cliche but it's true: Tom after seeing your video, if a picture is worth 1000 words than a video is worth about a million.   There's nothing like watching a demo, thanks for posting this.

Looks like my washes were definitely way too thin (must be a habit from some old art class), that became immediately clear from seeing at the video.  I've been playing with thicker mixes and it seems to work better.  There is definitely a skill to it: it takes a bit of practice to develop the right touch for getting the right amounts of fluids into the desired places with the right texture.

The chalk also makes a considerable difference (I'm actually using the AIM powders with that) as does the Dullcote.  With the Dullcote it's important to go easy on the alcohol to avoid that "Mike Rose fade" effect.

I have some oils but haven't tried them yet.  How long do they take to dry typically?  Do the mineral spirits affect the paint finish on the model?

I'm working on this a bit more but hope to have a pic or two in the near future.

Thanks again!
Ed