TheRailwire
General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: spookshow on February 26, 2025, 04:32:17 PM
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I got my new NW2 in the mail today, and feeling a bit perverse I decided to try an experiment that I wouldn't try with anything other than a Kato - out of the box, onto the (not recently cleaned) rails, tick up to speed step 1, and.... let's see how long it runs! :D
So far (after about 20 minutes) it's travelled 32 inches without a single hiccup. I tell ya, ya gotta love that Kato manufacturing and QC.
-Mark
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Did they knurl the shaft where the gears kept slipping?
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Hell if I know, all I did was take it out of the box and put it on the rails. Two+ hours into the torture test and we're approaching the double crossover in the yard. If it makes it through there it's home free for the full lap!
-Mark
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Four+ hours into the torture test and we are well into lap two. This thing is legendary!
-Mark
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Four+ hours into the torture test and we are well into lap two. This thing is legendary!
-Mark
I'm not surprised. Kato's wheels seem to stay much cleaner longer compared to other brands. I have been swapping the Atlas wheels for Katos with excellent results. And thanks for proving that the old reliable springy contact strips in the chassis are just as reliable as wired trucks.
What brand decoder is in it? Soundtraxx Tsunami?
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:) Up voted both Mark and Peteski. My Kato locomotives (like this NW-2) keep running. My Atlas locomotives (like this GP-7) get balky and I have to hose them down with QD Electronic Cleaner, dry them, and then give them a workout on the Trix brass wire brush wheel cleaner. There is a difference!
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/46/3801-260225225118.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=46478)
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I tell ya, ya gotta love that Kato manufacturing and QC.
Preach it! :lol:
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13+ hours later and it's still creeping along. Just amazing :o
So, what is the story on the driveshaft? A demonstrable problem or one of those urban legends where a couple of guys had an issue 20 years ago and have been harping on it so long that it's turned into conventional wisdom? Y'know, like that myth about Atlas SD60 trucks?
-Mark
P.S. Peteski, it's a Zimo decoder (of all things).
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Zimo?!
Was this a Kato factory install or someone did custom-install for you? Zimos are excellent Austrian decoders in the same league as ESU. Did Zimo start making a plug-n-play sound decoder for this model?
(http://spookshow.net/loco/files/katonw2gear.jpg)
The slipping gear is not an urban legend. This model has (as you know) uses an unconventional design. It uses that smaller Kato motor (which is also used in GS-4). As you describe in your NW2 review, the larger nylon spur gear mounted on a steel shaft which then drives the worms through universals. That gear was prone to slippage on the shaft as it was just press fit onto the round shaft (no knurling or any other means to prevent if from slipping). I guess the slippage did not happen to every model, but it was happening frequently enough for the model to gain bad rap.
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I should read my own encyclopedia more often, I'd completely forgotten that I'd already covered the driveshaft issue :facepalm:
According to an insert in the box it's a Zimo "NW2_A246" decoder. I don't know if it's a "factory" (Japan) install or if it was installed here in the USA, but it did come from Kato with that decoder installed. First time I've ever run into a Zimo decoder myself, and I can't say that I'm all that thrilled with their incomprehensible user manuals, yikes :|
-Mark
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I should read my own encyclopedia more often, I'd completely forgotten that I'd already covered the driveshaft issue :facepalm:
According to an insert in the box it's a Zimo "NW2_A246" decoder. I don't know if it's a "factory" (Japan) install or if it was installed here in the USA, but it did come from Kato with that decoder installed. First time I've ever run into a Zimo decoder myself, and I can't say that I'm all that thrilled with their incomprehensible user manuals, yikes :|
-Mark
Going by the decoder's name it appears that Zimo made a plug-n-play decoder for that model. Sweet! I wasn't aware of that. And yes, Zimo manuals and website (translated from Austrian) are even worse than ESUs. But the electronics are excellent!
Actually I don't see that decoder listed on Zimo website and the naming convention does not seem to follow Zimo nomenclature. I guess we'll have to wait until you take the shell off to see what the decoder looks like.
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(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/46/medium_1935-270225094141.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=46479)
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That sure looks like a new Zimo decoder made specifically for this model. Sweet!
I double shecked and it's not mentioned on Zimo website or in the latest MX and MS English manuals (I just looked at them both). It is also not available for sale on the Streamlined Backshop website. Interesting . . .
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The Zimo decoder also explains the good running on dirty tracks. I know Zimo puts quite big capacitors on their decoders. From experience these are bigger than for instance ESU.
Marc
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The Zimo decoder also explains the good running on dirty tracks. I know Zimo puts quite big capacitors on their decoders. From experience these are bigger than for instance ESU.
Marc
The 2 largest caps I see (marked 476) are 47µF tantalum caps. If they are in parallel that is 94µF which is not all that much. ESU uses multiple MLCC (Multi-Layer Ceramic Capacitors) and while I have never unsoldered one to check its capacitance (they have no markings on them), I suspect those are either 22 or 47µF each. SO that would be similar to what Zimo uses (at least on the very small size decoders). That is on the 12V side. Both companies also use capacitor on the internal lower voltage supplies which power the microcontroller. Maybe Zimo uses larger capacitors on the lower voltage side (so the microcontroller doesn't "reboot" on very short track power interruptions).
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Glad to see Zimo making a drop-in fit for this loco, but I can’t help but wonder if the shell seats all the way down. Unless the chassis (or shell) has been redesigned, there is very little vertical clearance between the chassis and the shell and I just can’t see those big components fitting in that space. As I recall, a drop in (non-sound) decoder didn’t quite fit either and cased the shell to ride high at the front. I installed a Zimo MX660 in a Kato NW2 and, IIRC, had to do a lot of really careful Dremel work on the inside of the shell to make room for the taller components.
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Pity the sound file is rather old. Based on info on the Kato site, it’s a more than 10 years old 8 bit file. The newer 16 bit files do have much better sound..
So it may still be a 16 bit MS decoder but it could also be an older 8 bit MX decoder. But it’s certainly an expensive option.$200 extra MRSP for sound? And $100 extra MRSP for DCC? That’s an hefty price tag.
Marc
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But it’s certainly an expensive option.$200 extra MRSP for sound? And $100 extra MRSP for DCC? That’s an hefty price tag.
Marc
That's how all the Kato releases have been last couple years. I'll gladly buy a DC model and put my own $30 DCC decoder in
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The 2 largest caps I see (marked 476) are 47µF tantalum caps. If they are in parallel that is 94µF which is not all that much. ESU uses multiple MLCC (Multi-Layer Ceramic Capacitors) and while I have never unsoldered one to check its capacitance (they have no markings on them), I suspect those are either 22 or 47µF each. SO that would be similar to what Zimo uses (at least on the very small size decoders). That is on the 12V side. Both companies also use capacitor on the internal lower voltage supplies which power the microcontroller. Maybe Zimo uses larger capacitors on the lower voltage side (so the microcontroller doesn't "reboot" on very short track power interruptions).
As I mentioned in another post, I’m not sure if the decoder is an MX decoder or an MS decoder. The positive experience I have is with the MS decoders and these decoders do indeed use larger capacitors on the low voltage side. Fact is I have a couple locomotives which normally come with factory installed Loksound decoders (no stay alive) and have generated lots of comments (including from a friend) on forums about the microcontroller rebooting. Because of these comments I installed Zimo MS581 decoders in my locos and no problems at all with any hiccups. Based on your remarks I get more and more the feeling that the Kato decoder is a MX decoder.
Marc
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Glad to see Zimo making a drop-in fit for this loco, but I can’t help but wonder if the shell seats all the way down.
The shell fits the chassis like a glove.
-Mark
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The shell fits the chassis like a glove.
-Mark
That’s good to know! Would still love to see a pic of the coupler height in relation to the MT height gauge.
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Based on your remarks I get more and more the feeling that the Kato decoder is a MX decoder.
Marc
Hopefully some info about this new decoder will end up on Zimo website and in the documentation. The model name of this decoder is nothing like what Zimo uses. Maybe it was made exclusive to Kato, but I doubt that.
One thing I'm not a fan of with Zimo decoders is that many sound projects require purchase and licensing, there are relatively few sound files for American prototype locomotives, and the ones which are available are usually rather old.
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I should read my own encyclopedia more often, I'd completely forgotten that I'd already covered the driveshaft issue :facepalm:
According to an insert in the box it's a Zimo "NW2_A246" decoder. I don't know if it's a "factory" (Japan) install or if it was installed here in the USA, but it did come from Kato with that decoder installed. First time I've ever run into a Zimo decoder myself, and I can't say that I'm all that thrilled with their incomprehensible user manuals, yikes :|
-Mark
Regular and sound decoders are installed stateside. That's why the cost is relatively steep to buy them installed.
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Hopefully some info about this new decoder will end up on Zimo website and in the documentation. The model name of this decoder is nothing like what Zimo uses. Maybe it was made exclusive to Kato, but I doubt that.
One thing I'm not a fan of with Zimo decoders is that many sound projects require purchase and licensing, there are relatively few sound files for American prototype locomotives, and the ones which are available are usually rather old.
The licensing of the sound file is not a big issue for me. It happens often in Europe and not only with Zimo but also with ESU. The quality and age of the US sound files is more an issue. The new European 16 bit sound files are much better and do show what is possible.
Marc
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I just happen to speak today at a train show in the Netherlands to the person who made the sound file for the NW2 and it looks like the documentation on the Kato website is wrong. The sound file is new and 16 bit. This does also mean that the decoder is a new MS decoder. He also mentioned there will be coming more IS sound files. Nice
Marc