TheRailwire
General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: Ntrainz1 on January 07, 2025, 05:22:39 PM
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Gulf, Mobile and Ohio Railroad (GM&O) E7s and Erie E8s
https://pioneertrains.com/
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I had hoped that kato would do the Erie units but you take what you get. I’ll be buying a pair of stealth.
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I had hoped that kato would do the Erie units but you take what you get. I’ll be buying a pair of stealth.
Maybe me too. Should there be "radio equipped" lettering below the cab side window (not shown in the graphic on the referenced page)? I have one of the Walthers edition upgraded Life Like units that has the lettering. Is it date/era/unit specific?
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Are these a special run for Pioneer Trains? I don’t see them listed elsewhere, but I haven’t looked at too many places.
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Are these a special run for Pioneer Trains? I don’t see them listed elsewhere, but I haven’t looked at too many places.
Yes
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Maybe me too. Should there be "radio equipped" lettering below the cab side window (not shown in the graphic on the referenced page)? I have one of the Walthers edition upgraded Life Like units that has the lettering. Is it date/era/unit specific?
I suggest that someone should reach out to Pioneer Trains.
According to this, Erie started deploying radios in 1948: https://books.google.com/books?id=m4szAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=erie+radio+equipped&source=bl&ots=GOOH4f0fJX&sig=VkXCSP_AxNBetdAZX6UcCRmlKPg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn47zc3_PYAhXkzIMKHXvOAmEQ6AEIWDAK#v=onepage&q=erie%20radio%20equipped&f=false
Here's a photo of #821 11/27/1960: https://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/erie0821lbC.jpg with "Radio Equiped" on the cab side.
Mark
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Gentlemen,
Thank you for your attention to detail! Looking back at the photos I have of 820 and 821, they all show the Radio Equipped on the side.
I started Pioneer Trains last year in an effort to bring more paint schemes and passenger trains to N scale. I just reached out to Broadway Limited to see if they can correct it.
Thanks,
Peter
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Yes
Are these for sale, or is this a pre-order situation and we might see them in a year if there are enough pre-orders?
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This is a pre-order situation. However they are not conditional. They are being delivered along with all the other BLI E7s and E8s in the spring. The tentative date is May 2025.
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Am I imagining things. I thought I saw a preorder discount yesterday, but it isn’t there now. The GM&O is very tempting.
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Am I imagining things. I thought I saw a preorder discount yesterday, but it isn’t there now. The GM&O is very tempting.
It' should be there when you add it to your cart.
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Just ordered mine, and yep, a discount in the cart. Not a big discount, but this is essentially a limited edition, so I'm thankful there wasn't a big upcharge for the Erie paint job.
And Peter, prepare yourself for all the emails starting about May 25th, asking "Are they here YET???"
Ok, now, I need to find a $300 gift for my wife to be delivered the day before these show up.
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I'm preparing for the onslaught of emails.
Back on topic, it looks like when they were originally delivered, they did not have the Radio Equipped on the side. Here's a photo from April 1951 without the slogan. I'm not sure when they were added.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=256333 (http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=256333)
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@Peter Amling
Thanks for the prompt response this week regarding the PayPal concern. I wish you the best in this venture with BLI, and ordered a set of Stealth GM&O E7s to replace the earlier set I sold in 2018 (before there was anything to run with them)
Justin
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Did a little research on the "Radio Equipped" slogan on the E8's. The first two "Erie Railroad" books by Morning Sun contain several photos, but most are from the late 1950's and the slogan was very prevalent by then. That said, a unit at Corning NY in November 1951 does not have it. Another photo from 1955 shows 824 does not have it. But, a John Long (Erie company photographer) photo dated "1952" shows 822 with the decal.
The book notes that the Erie did not have complete system-wide radio coverage until April 1951, shortly after the E units were delivered.
And oh, another potential "problem". :D When delivered, these units had much longer "wings" on the nose, and they were lower on the carbody. They were replaced with what became the standard "wings" in relatively short order. So an "as-delivered" paint scheme would have a very limited market...
If I were the one making the production decision (thank goodness I am not), I would release these without the slogan and provide decals for the modeler to add. I'm grateful Pioneer / BLI isn't duplicating the Walthers / Life Like road numbers.
Ron
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I get the sense that Mr Amling is into the great streamliner era of the mid 1950's into the 1960's. Similar to Lowell Smith's interests, but more Chicago focused.
Which is awesome. Hope he fills many gaps in passenger rosters over time.
What else is awesome? Radio Equipped lightning bolts. Glad to hear they may make it to production.
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Oh, and make sure they come with Freight pilots too. Looks like a flat passenger pilot on the renderings.
Isn't making trains fun?
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And on the GM&O side, eventually we need these later ones... large numberboards and later lettering.
:D
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-DeRouin-Collection/GMO/i-5NrR3kX/A
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-DeRouin-Collection/GMO/i-9Vhk8rX/A
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-DeRouin-Collection/GMO/i-nLRCFMQ/A
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-DeRouin-Collection/GMO/i-Rbsz6nL/A
GM&O is a tough railroad to model, at least on the passenger front. Lots of weird equipment.
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Oh, and make sure they come with Freight pilots too. Looks like a flat passenger pilot on the renderings.
Good call. Recently Kato really missed the boat and did a "Kobo" Wabash E8 1009 with the wrong pilot: https://store.katousa.com/product/n-emd-e8a-wabash-1009-with-esu-lok-sound (Kato has a shell with the correct pilot - don't know how they missed that! :facepalm:)
The real 1009 https://www.flickr.com/photos/joeross/49376351778
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Good call. Recently Kato really missed the boat and did a "Kobo" Wabash E8 1009 with the wrong pilot: https://store.katousa.com/product/n-emd-e8a-wabash-1009-with-esu-lok-sound (Kato has a shell with the correct pilot - don't know how they missed that! :facepalm:)
The real 1009 https://www.flickr.com/photos/joeross/49376351778
Yeah, I need to swap pilots and respray the blue (darker) on mine.
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It' should be there when you add it to your cart.
I refreshed my browser and it was there! Order placed for GM&O!
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Oh, and make sure they come with Freight pilots too. Looks like a flat passenger pilot on the renderings.
Isn't making trains fun?
Hahaha. It sure is. I appreciate everyone on this forum trying to correct mistakes before they happen. I'll contact BLI about having the Erie use freight pilots.
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I get the sense that Mr Amling is into the great streamliner era of the mid 1950's into the 1960's. Similar to Lowell Smith's interests, but more Chicago focused.
Which is awesome. Hope he fills many gaps in passenger rosters over time.
What else is awesome? Radio Equipped lightning bolts. Glad to hear they may make it to production.
You nailed it. Chicago focused passenger equipment of the 1940s and beyond. There are numerous gaps. If anyone has suggestions for future models, please post them here or PM me. I may put out a poll at some point. I have a roadmap but knowing where other folks interest lies will help steer future announcements.
Lowell definitely inspired me to start this process. And I appreciate all he's done to further the cause, especially tooling new models.
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Purely on a selfish level, I’d love to see more NKP and Wabash stuff. I do like what you’re doing so far, here’s to many successful ventures.
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This is a pre-order situation. However they are not conditional. They are being delivered along with all the other BLI E7s and E8s in the spring. The tentative date is May 2025.
BLI’s website is saying 2026 for the E units and several other models. It looks like a typo to me!
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So this is a case where trying to focus on a specific time and place just saved me several hundred dollars. Lightning bolts and freight pilots put the Erie units beyond the May 1952 cutoff date for my layout. :D
<Avoids looking in the box containing 1972-era EL locos, cars and caboose...> :facepalm:
Ron
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So this is a case where trying to focus on a specific time and place just saved me several hundred dollars. Lightning bolts and freight pilots put the Erie units beyond the May 1952 cutoff date for my layout. :D
<Avoids looking in the box containing 1972-era EL locos, cars and caboose...> :facepalm:
Ron
Ron, are the freight pilots a mid-50s alteration? If so, do you know when they were installed?
EDIT- I found the answer to the first part with a 1951 photo of 825- https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~tubbs/history/ErieLackawanna/173-07.JPG where the unit clearly has a passenger pilot. All the photos I found dated 1957 or later show freight pilots. But would be good to know (modeling 1955-56) the date(s) of the changeover. Thanks in advance.
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Tom,
Interesting. All the photos I can find have freight pilots - maybe 825 had a road crossing incident and had it replaced with the passenger pilot? (Erie experts chime in!).
Counter to that theory, there is a photo below of 825 from 1960 with freight pilot. :D
828 April 1960 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4766858
821 Nov 1960 https://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/erie0821lbC.jpg
825 Nov 1960 https://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/loco/erie0825bbb.jpg
823 Feb 1957 http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4664718
820 fairly fresh paint: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3098991
Looks like all Erie E8s were built between Jan'50 and Mar'51. So, were they all built with passenger pilots, then converted in mass to freight pilots?
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Interesting, mostly pilots stayed the same over the life of the unit... but Erie must have felt the need to change?
One possible solution... the two pilots seem to be molded at the same time on a sprue. Undec units used to come with both variants. And they snap right onto the Broadway units.
If BLI included both and color matched them? *chef kiss*
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So this is a case where trying to focus on a specific time and place just saved me several hundred dollars. Lightning bolts and freight pilots put the Erie units beyond the May 1952 cutoff date for my layout. :D
<Avoids looking in the box containing 1972-era EL locos, cars and caboose...> :facepalm:
Ron
It looks like they were all delivered with passenger pilots. So in the box they will have passenger pilots and no lightning bolt. TheLightning bolts will be a decal and we will include a freight pilot in the box. It looks like they were switched out in the late 1950s.
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As I continue to go through my Erie 'library', I have come across numerous 1951 photos - they must have been a big deal when delivered.
820 (one of the units that Peter is offering) has a freight pilot in July 1954 but no lightning bolts. Same for 828 dated 1956.
So, as Ann Landers would say, a mea culpa is in order. While I am aiming for 1952 as a cutoff date, a casual review of the rolling stock on my layout reveals a healthy percentage of mid-1950's build dates or repaint dates. (NH and B&M McGinnis anyone? How about some green and yellow Rutland PS-1's?) So I will be ordering the pair after all. Hopefully I can sell some other stuff by then to help pay for them!
Ron
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RE the Erie wreck photo: how did a tank wind up being hit by a train?
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RE the Erie wreck photo: how did a tank wind up being hit by a train?
Think I remember that happening in Kent Ohio. Parade maybe?
Edit: Barberton Ohio
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestroyedTanks/comments/e6g0gr/a_sherman_is_hit_by_an_express_train_in_barberton/?rdt=55764
Barberton’s Very Worst Train Accident
In 1951, Barberton suffered a horrendous train accident on the Erie tracks near the curve in the tracks at Fairview Avenue On April 30 at 5:50 p.m. A Sherman tank from the Ohio National Guard Company B, 137th Medium Tank Battalion, 57th Infantry, was crossing the tracks at Fairview Avenue and heading down Norton Avenue to the Armory. Erie Diesel Engine No. 6, an express train, was speeding north past the bend in the tracks when it hit the tank.
The crash tore the turret off the Sherman tank and crushed to death three out of the six National Guardsman inside the tank. The other three tank crewmen were seriously injured and numerous passengers on the Erie express train had to be hospitalized.
At the time there were no crossing gates at this very dangerous crossing. Many Barberton residents flocked to the crash site.
https://www.summitmemory.org/digital/collection/ABJarchives/id/9660/rec/6
https://www.summitmemory.org/digital/collection/ABJarchives/id/9657/rec/5
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And on the GM&O side, eventually we need these later ones... large numberboards and later lettering.
:D
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-DeRouin-Collection/GMO/i-5NrR3kX/A
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-DeRouin-Collection/GMO/i-9Vhk8rX/A
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-DeRouin-Collection/GMO/i-nLRCFMQ/A
https://www.lakestatesarchive.org/Ed-DeRouin-Collection/GMO/i-Rbsz6nL/A
GM&O is a tough railroad to model, at least on the passenger front. Lots of weird equipment.
Or the Later-Later ones that also made it to Amtrak.
https://csanders429.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/img20191224_10202662pkg-2.jpg