TheRailwire
General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: reinhardtjh on January 12, 2023, 07:49:42 AM
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BLI apparently rushed some SKU's of the BigBoy here ahead of the regular shipment. Factory Direct Hobbies (naturally) has 3 road numbers available in limited quantities right now and the rest are "in transit" with ETA unknown but probably a month out. I'm guessing none of the other outlets will have stock until the main shipment comes in.
https://www.broadway-limited.com/schedule.aspx
https://factorydirecthobbies.com/collections/broadway-limited-imports-n-scale-big-boy?_=pf&pf_t_stock_status=pfs-status%3AIn%20Stock
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Starting with a rare and unique N scale model (Rivarossi), it appears that we will now have glut of Big Boys. I should paint one for the Boston & Maine RR. :|
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Starting with a rare and unique N scale model (Rivarossi), it appears that we will now have glut of Big Boys. I should paint one for the Boston & Maine RR. :|
I’d have gone with Central Pacific and Florida East Coast myself, but the B&M is also a good choice :trollface:
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Hogtrainz shipped mine yesterday. Just what I need, another Big Boy :facepalm:
-Mark
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The amount of smoke that it's throwing out is crazy. It doesn't look like the fan is chuffing though, just a continuous stream. I guess that's about prototypical, but does it chuff when the engine is moving at creep speeds?
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Starting with a rare and unique N scale model (Rivarossi), it appears that we will now have glut of Big Boys. I should paint one for the Boston & Maine RR. :|
In the white & red speed lettering scheme!
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BLI apparently rushed some SKU's of the BigBoy here ahead of the regular shipment. Factory Direct Hobbies (naturally) has 3 road numbers available in limited quantities right now and the rest are "in transit" with ETA unknown but probably a month out. I'm guessing none of the other outlets will have stock until the main shipment comes in.
https://www.broadway-limited.com/schedule.aspx
https://factorydirecthobbies.com/collections/broadway-limited-imports-n-scale-big-boy?_=pf&pf_t_stock_status=pfs-status%3AIn%20Stock
They are also currently in stock at MB Klein (https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/search?search_query_adv=Broadway%20Limited%20Big%20Boy#/filter:inventory_level:1:*).
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If only Concor would have made Big Boys...we would HAVE a Boston and Maine version, along with a Pennsy, ATSF, Southern, Mo Pac, and (my personal favorite), Southern Pacific complete with skyline casing and daylight paint!
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Starting with a rare and unique N scale model (Rivarossi), it appears that we will now have glut of Big Boys.
Although BLI has released one of their own, I am holding out for one of the Kato 4014 excursion tour models (https://katousa.com/n-bigboy/), as all of the previous manufacturer releases were either as delivered or in service versions.
As opposed to BLI, in my humble opinion, Kato has superior parts availability and end user product service.
Kato has recently uploaded some new Exploded Parts Diagrams (https://katousa.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/N-parts-BigBoy.pdf) for their upcoming models, which are due to be shipped in May (126-4014 DCC ready) and July (126-4014-DCC with factory installed DCC decoder and 126-4014-S with factory installed Soundtrax DCC sound decoder) 2023.
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Conrail Big Boy! :trollface:
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Con-Cor would have certainly offered it in Amtrak.
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Be careful what you wish for. BLI has sold models in fantasy schemes. The Centipedes in UP, for instance. (Yeah, plausible fantasy with unique circumstances, but... still...)
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Be careful what you wish for. BLI has sold models in fantasy schemes. The Centipedes in UP, for instance. (Yeah, plausible fantasy with unique circumstances, but... still...)
A better example would be the BLI Pennsylvania P5a Boxcab Electrics (https://www.broadway-limited.com/prrp5aboxcab.aspx) which were released in Conrail, Great Northern, Milwaukee, New Haven, and New York Central fantasy paint schemes.
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I am waiting on the N&W Y6, which should be released in a few months. Is there a way to remove the smoke unit on these locos? Not interested in any of that.
I know Big Boys are cool and will sell well, but with Kato releasing theirs in the near future, we have a huge supply of them right now. I would have rather seen a good 2-10-x mechanism of some type, even if it is a USRA copy. Or heck, can we have a good new steam switcher?
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If only Concor would have made Big Boys...we would HAVE a Boston and Maine version, along with a Pennsy, ATSF, Southern, Mo Pac, and (my personal favorite), Southern Pacific complete with skyline casing and daylight paint!
Con-Cor originally did sell Rivarossi Big Boys. I own one. I don't have the box top anymore, but it did have a Con-Cor label on it. They just never got around to fantasy schemes I guess. Con-Cor also sold spare parts for them (that's where I purchased a spare engine assembly).
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I am waiting on the N&W Y6, which should be released in a few months. Is there a way to remove the smoke unit on these locos? Not interested in any of that.
I know Big Boys are cool and will sell well, but with Kato releasing theirs in the near future, we have a huge supply of them right now. I would have rather seen a good 2-10-x mechanism of some type, even if it is a USRA copy. Or heck, can we have a good new steam switcher?
I was wondering the same thing about removing all the smoke equipment.
Looks like the detailing is pretty good on the BLI model...with separate throttle linkage, no ashpans on the 4014 and an add on tool cabinet to make the tender a 3985 tender. Looks like double dynamos also, but no antenna details on top of the cab.
Cast on grabs on the sand domes and fugly cast on grabs on the front of the cab roof. Looks like the railings on the pilot are bit thick, and the railings/conduit on the sides of the boiler are a bit thin.
Is the perforated metal I see used for the running boards? Can't tell for sure.
I really wish that on the coal fired version, they'd just leave an open, empty coal bunker...or even half a coal bunker so coal loads would look different for each Big Boy.
Holy Krap!...excessive cab overhang on that Kato Unitrack curve!! That's ridiculous...
No innovation at the junction of the main side steam pipes like the Kato version which does a less obvious non-connection to the rear pistons.
I like the open window on the Engineer's side, but I don't like the thick red ash dump wheel, which is superfluous on the 4014 since it isn't producing any ashes. It's probably cast on.
The color of the smokebox is totally wrong, but hey, nobody ever gets it right, and the black paint isn't glossy.
Boiler details under the sand domes looks to be in-service detailing, not 4014 details, which is fine by me since I don't want or need an excursion 4014.
Yeah...that smoke stuff really turns me off.
I'm surprisingly not excited at all about it, but, I hope it sells well.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Con-Cor originally did sell Rivarossi Big Boys. I own one. I don't have the box top anymore, but it did have a Con-Cor label on it. They just never got around to fantasy schemes I guess. Con-Cor also sold spare parts for them (that's where I purchased a spare engine assembly).
The Con-Cor Rivarossi N-Scale Big Boys were initially shipped in Rivarossi plastic jewel-boxes with a self adhesive white Con-Cor label bearing red printing on the box lid and a blue colored injection molded plastic nest.
In their final years of production, the models were delivered in Con-Cor cardboard boxes with red or tan colored box tops and gray colored Styrofoam packaging inserts.
While some of the prototype railroad liveries that were chosen by the Italian firm my not have been prototypically accurate (e.g., Clinchfield, New York Central, Pennsylvania, Santa Fe, Southern Pacific, and Union Pacific Berkshires), confined to models that were decorated by Con-Cor, none of the factory delivered Rivarossi N-Scale products bore the colorful Amtrak, Chessie System, or Conrail fantasy paint schemes that were favored by Con-Cor.
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The Con-Cor Rivarossi N-Scale Big Boys were initially shipped in Rivarossi plastic jewel-boxes with blue colored injection molded plastic nests, then Con-Cor cardboard boxes with red or tan colored box tops and gray colored Styrofoam packaging inserts in their final years of production.
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Yes the one I own came in a fairly large cardboard box with gray foam nest. The top of the box was light brown. It looked like imitation woodgrain pattern.
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Yes the one I own came in a fairly large cardboard box with gray foam nest. The top of the box was light brown. It looked like imitation woodgrain pattern.
From a pre-1988 first run mechanism run which was the first of the Con-Cor Rivarossi cardboard box Big Boy releases, I completely forgot about the "Premiere Edition"wood grained box top version with the self adhesive gold foil Con-Cor label.
Manufactured from 1988 until around 1999, the models with revised mechanisms were shipped with red or tan cardboard box tops.
The 1979 first run models were shipped in the plastic jewel-box that was previously used to ship the Rivarossi N-Scale 2-8-8-2 Y6B Mallet steam locomotives.
Like the Big Boy models, the later run Y6B locomotives shipped in Con-Cor cardboard boxes with red or tan cardboard box tops.
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Peteski, if your Con Cor Rivarossi Big Boy came in the large brown imitation wood grain box it was from the very first run. I had two of those, and one that I obtained used that the previous owner had lettered and weathered for New York Central. I did a partial repaint leaving the weathering and re adding a front UP shield. I also owned two of the later runs which came in two different types of Con Cor Boxes, one a long red one, and one a short tan box with the locomotive and tender in a short foam insert. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
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Peteski, if your Con Cor Rivarossi Big Boy came in the large brown imitation wood grain box it was from the very first run. I had two of those, and one that I obtained used that the previous owner had lettered and weathered for New York Central. I did a partial repaint leaving the weathering and re adding a front UP shield. I also owned two of the later runs which came in two different types of Con Cor Boxes, one a long red one, and one a short tan box with the locomotive and tender in a short foam insert. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
The Con-Cor Big Boy plot thickens . . . :D
I wish I still had the box top. The box also had an embroidered UP shield patch and Con-Cor JMC break-in instructions which start off with "Thank you for purchasing the BIG BOY made in Italy by Rivarossi".
And in a typical TRW fashion we have totally derailed this thread. :D
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I was wondering the same thing about removing all the smoke equipment.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
Not sure about the BLI N scale decoders , but I do know that the HO decoders have a CV that turns off the smoke generator . Mike
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Wow! These come with meandering N scale smoke? I got to get me one of these! :D :trollface:
While back in the early '70s at least one of the early Arnold European locos came with factory installed smoke generator (which did have off switch), to my knowledge not many other locos were made that way in the last 45 years or so. If there were more, they were likely European prototype made by European manufacturers.
I've seen some impressive smoking locos in larger scales where there is a fan in the loco to simulate puffing, but the lazily meandering smoke in N scale models just looks cheesy.
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Starting with a rare and unique N scale model (Rivarossi), it appears that we will now have glut of Big Boys. I should paint one for the Boston & Maine RR. :|
There are a bunch of pictures of them on B&M rails. Well, one of them anyway.
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Wow! These come with meandering N scale smoke? I got to get me one of these! :D :trollface:
I seem to recall my first train, the Tyco “Chattanooga Choo Choo” had a clear bottle of oil that you’d pour down the stack to create smoke.
I could be wrong on that one, but I think that was the only Steam Loco I had while young.
There should be a study done on them, like Gas Ranges. ;)
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My first experience with smoke was when I was a teenager in Poland with a small TT-gauge layout. I bought one of the small Seuthe smoke generators, then cut off the smokestack in a steam loco I had, drilled a hole in the boiler, removed some lead ballast inside and installed the smoke generator in there. The smoke generator had a diameter close to the original stack, and it was covered by black plastic sleeve (shrink tubing?) so it actually didn't look bad.
I used it several times but the novelty wore out rather quickly. The smoke looked like smoke from a burning cigarette sitting in an ashtray. Not like a smoke coming out of a locomotive. Plus, it only smoked when the loco was going fairly fast (it needed high enough voltage for the internal heater to vaporize the oil). Then there was the mess. The oil would wick out of the generator onto the boiler making it all oily. Not something I would want to use in any of my N scale steam locos.
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As far as the BLI Big Boy is concerned...it's smokin' more, and I'm enjoying it less...
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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"We don't need no Stinking Smoke!" Nate Goodman (Nato).
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I was wondering the same thing about removing all the smoke equipment.
Looks like the detailing is pretty good on the BLI model...with separate throttle linkage, no ashpans on the 4014 and an add on tool cabinet to make the tender a 3985 tender. Looks like double dynamos also, but no antenna details on top of the cab.
Cast on grabs on the sand domes and fugly cast on grabs on the front of the cab roof. Looks like the railings on the pilot are bit thick, and the railings/conduit on the sides of the boiler are a bit thin.
Is the perforated metal I see used for the running boards? Can't tell for sure.
I really wish that on the coal fired version, they'd just leave an open, empty coal bunker...or even half a coal bunker so coal loads would look different for each Big Boy.
Holy Krap!...excessive cab overhang on that Kato Unitrack curve!! That's ridiculous...
No innovation at the junction of the main side steam pipes like the Kato version which does a less obvious non-connection to the rear pistons.
I like the open window on the Engineer's side, but I don't like the thick red ash dump wheel, which is superfluous on the 4014 since it isn't producing any ashes. It's probably cast on.
The color of the smokebox is totally wrong, but hey, nobody ever gets it right, and the black paint isn't glossy.
Boiler details under the sand domes looks to be in-service detailing, not 4014 details, which is fine by me since I don't want or need an excursion 4014.
Yeah...that smoke stuff really turns me off.
I'm surprisingly not excited at all about it, but, I hope it sells well.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
Just curious. Why does this post deserve a down-vote??
Anyway...did a horse-trade today for one of these...an in-service 4023 with the re-located after-coolers.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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I haven’t received mine, yet. I don’t mind the idea of smoke since I can turn it off.
However, I am a bit disturbed by the brass (?) smoke unit parts visible in the stacks. It’s distracting and turns a curiosity (smoke unit) into a visual negative.
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ConCor did output the BigBoy with Santa Fe markings. I had one that I picked up cheap.
Mark
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Just curious. Why does this post deserve a down-vote??
Looks like I and someone else took care of that. Still, being able to see who voted (either ups or down) would solve the problem of these "accidental" down-votes (which I think aren't accidental).
I'll be curious about your evaluation of the BLI model.
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Looks like I and someone else took care of that. Still, being able to see who voted (either ups or down) would solve the problem of these "accidental" down-votes (which I think aren't accidental).
I'll be curious about your evaluation of the BLI model.
Thanks Peter. Mine will be arriving later this week and I'll give it a thorough review and compare it to the Athearn Big Boy. I'm going to weather it up now that I've got my spray booth blower replaced. Might be worth a separate post.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Looks like I and someone else took care of that. Still, being able to see who voted (either ups or down) would solve the problem of these "accidental" down-votes (which I think aren't accidental).
I'll be curious about your evaluation of the BLI model.
Interested in a 4014 excursion variation, gave Bob's post an up vote because it was extremely relevant and useful to me.
Although it is my intention to purchase a Kato model, notwithstanding the factory installation of a smoke generation unit, I'll be looking forward to Bob's thorough evaluation of the BLI offering.
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Not very impressed with mine so far. It's been exhibiting the same periodic stopping behavior that I had with the RSD-15. Worse still, the tender has been derailing on a distressingly frequent basis. I think I'll go back to breaking in my Bachmann Charger as I've just about had it up to here with BLI at the moment.
-Mark
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Has anyone seen a hi-res photo of an actual BLI Big Boy model online? All I've seen is the 2-D side profile rendering.
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I am waiting on the N&W Y6, which should be released in a few months. Is there a way to remove the smoke unit on these locos? Not interested in any of that.
I would have rather seen a good 2-10-x mechanism of some type, even if it is a USRA copy. Or heck, can we have a good new steam switcher.
I do have a pre-order for a undec Y6 so I can see if it can be converted to a somewhat reasonable B&O EL-5. I have sent three different web-contacts asking if they were considering an EL-5 and have been ghosted.
HERE! HERE! ... an USRA 2-10-2 or B&O Big Six would be the ultimate death of Mr. Wallet.
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Boy, for 500 bones you'd think they could've included a little sample-sized container of smoke fluid :x
-Mark
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Boy, for 500 bones you'd think they could've included a little sample-sized container of smoke fluid :x
-Mark
I saw a video clip taken at a show where they had a prototype running. In the _background_ you could hear a rep saying they didn't include the smoke juice because it impacted how the models were imported/shipped and this had been their approach with HO for a while. Perhaps the juice has to be imported as a hazardous/flammable material and has to be packed/inspected differently.
Bob
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The "juice" is simply lightweight oil, like the stuff some use for track cleaning, but who knows what import regulations are in place. It is also possible they were worried about oil leaking out, creating a mess in the box.
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Yes, it is light oil. For n-scalers with no Lionel experience, you can usually find smoke juice scented in various ways at shows and perhaps at your LHS. While I grew up on the original unscented Lionel smoke, pine scented oil around the Christmas tree was nice and also made Mom happier. Now the question do you try using the old Lionel juice in your BLI BB, or do you order the stuff BLI sells?
Bob
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Yes, it is light oil. For n-scalers with no Lionel experience, you can usually find smoke juice scented in various ways at shows and perhaps at your LHS. While I grew up on the original unscented Lionel smoke, pine scented oil around the Christmas tree was nice and also made Mom happier. Now the question do you try using the old Lionel juice in your BLI BB, or do you order the stuff BLI sells?
Bob
While I have no personal experience with this particular smoke generator, I don't see why any "smoke fluid" would not be compatible with the BLI unit. They all are just miniature electric heaters which boil (evaporate) the oil.
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Wrong info.
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As for what "smoke fluid" to use in the new BLI N-scale Big Boy....go to their site and watch the "N-scale Big Boy Smoke Fluid Application" Video. It's fully explained, so all the guessing here is wasted time, and some of your guesses are wrong. Go to: https://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon4upbigboynscale.aspx
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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BLI's smoke units get damaged if you burn anything other than BLI smoke fluid in them. It has something to do with the chemical composition of the BLI fluid vs. the other smoke fluids on the market. Working at a shop which deals with H0 and N primarily, we have to tell the H0 guys this constantly.
Wrong. BLI's HO smoke fluid won't work in the N-scale Big Boy. BLI explains this in their YouTube video giving instructions on what kind of smoke fluid to use and how to put it in the model.
Sometimes it's good to read or view the instructions before giving advice.
Go here: https://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon4upbigboynscale.aspx
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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While I have no personal experience with this particular smoke generator, I don't see why any "smoke fluid" would not be compatible with the BLI unit. They all are just miniature electric heaters which boil (evaporate) the oil.
Peter, although your reasoning is good, it doesn't work for the BLI N-scale Big Boy.
BLI has specific instructions on what type of smoke fluid to use and gives a link in their instructional YouTube video to where to buy it since it isn't BLI smoke fluid.
Go here: https://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon4upbigboynscale.aspx
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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BLI Smoke Fluid Requirements and Instructions:
Since lots of advice and opinions are being given here about the N-scale BLI Big Boy's smoke fluid that are WRONG, I have posted several corrections to these erroneous opinions and assumptions just in case somebody reads them and doesn't actually go to BLI's site and view the instructional video, which makes it very clear that BLI's smoke fluid won't work in the N-scale Big Boy, and gives a link to where to get the smoke fluid they're using in the video.
I'd rather to do a little overkill here if it prevents somebody from screwing up an expensive model they've just purchased because of erroneous advice they've read here.
I'm not going to say what smoke fluid to use in this thread which forces you to use the provided link and watch BLI's instructional video, which should have been done before giving advice/opinions that were incorrect. At least until somebody posts what the video says... :facepalm:
This was easy to do...took me like three minutes to get the correct information from their website.
Go here: https://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon4upbigboynscale.aspx
Like I said in a previous post, sometimes it's better to read/view the instructions first before giving uninformed advice. :trollface:
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Well, BLI actually recommends to use Marklin/Trix smoke fluid in the N scale loco. That is a generic fluid which can also be used in other smoke generators. I don't feel my earlier statement about N scale smoke fluid was incorrect. I guess it depends on how you interpret it.
I suspect that other similar fluids would also work, like the one from Diverse: https://www.dm-toys.de/en/product-details/Diverse_SR24-120.html (https://www.dm-toys.de/en/product-details/Diverse_SR24-120.html)
The description states SR24 can also be used as steam oil in all smoke generators.
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Well, BLI actually recommends to use Marklin/Trix smoke fluid in the N scale loco. That is a generic fluid which can also be used in other smoke generators. I don't feel my earlier statement about N scale smoke fluid was incorrect. I guess it depends on how you interpret it.
I suspect that other similar fluids would also work, like the one from Diverse: https://www.dm-toys.de/en/product-details/Diverse_SR24-120.html (https://www.dm-toys.de/en/product-details/Diverse_SR24-120.html)
The description states SR24 can also be used as steam oil in all smoke generators.
Your opinion was only incorrect in that you didn't specify that the smoke fluid has to be "light" oil. Heavier smoke fluids, including BLI's own HO scale fluid won't work.
The logical line of reasoning, which you used, would assume that all model smoke generators, being nothing but simple heaters, wouldn't require a specific type of smoke fluid to work. In this case, logic gives way to the reality that BLI chose to use a smoke generator that requires "light" smoke fluid for whatever reason.
I agree with your line of reasoning, but BLI threw us a left hook. ;)
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Your opinion was only incorrect in that you didn't specify that the smoke fluid has to be "light" oil. Heavier smoke fluids, including BLI's own HO scale fluid won't work.
. . .
Bob Gilmore
But I did Bob, in https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=55322.msg760427#msg760427 (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=55322.msg760427#msg760427) . Lightweight and light are the same thing to me. :)
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Got my 4022 today .
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The question is , should you buy a BLI Big Boy with smoke, or an Athearn Big Boy with sound, the Athearn locomotives are getting harder to find as they have been out (current release) for a while, or do you wait and go for the KATO Sound equipped Big Boy which is only the Excursion Locomotive with Oil Tender. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
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Your opinion was only incorrect in that you didn't specify that the smoke fluid has to be "light" oil. Heavier smoke fluids, including BLI's own HO scale fluid won't work.
The logical line of reasoning, which you used, would assume that all model smoke generators, being nothing but simple heaters, wouldn't require a specific type of smoke fluid to work. In this case, logic gives way to the reality that BLI chose to use a smoke generator that requires "light" smoke fluid for whatever reason.
I agree with your line of reasoning, but BLI threw us a left hook. ;)
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
Thanks . This is a screen shot from the video
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/medium_53-210123173327.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=32075)
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I run DC. Does the smoke work? What happens if you don’t put smoke fluid in? Can you burn the unit up?
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You activate the smoke unit with F7, and presumably you wouldn't want to do that if there's no fluid in there. There's also an on/off switch if you want to disable the smoke unit entirely.
-Mark
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Boy, this brings me back to my early teens when I was fascinated by smoking models.
Smoke generator is basically a reservoir of oil and a heater partially immersed in the oil.
(https://trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips3/lgb_smoke_unit.gif)
The heater is basically a resistive wire coiled like a spring,. Looks like a filament in a light bulb. When hot it boils the oil generating "smoke".
If you run it when unit is dry that will eventually burn out the heater.
When I played with these I ran DC and the smoke generator was connected to the rail pickups. How much smoke it generated was dependent on the track voltage (and speed of the loco of course). BlI does not sell DC locos, so it will need rather high DC track voltage to power the decoder. If the smoke unit is enabled then it will likely work. But as it has been said, in a long run, this is a messy proposition. Even if not running, the oil will eventually creep out of the stack and spread onto the boiler. Plus the smoke is actually oil vapors.
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Any of you old enough to remember the old 'Lionel SP Smoke Pellets". They came in a bottle with orange and blue (Lionel Colors) labels and a black screw on top. They could easily be confused with aspirin tablets, if your 0 or 027 locomotive had smoke you put one pill/tablet in the stack and the heating coil unit caused it to smoke. You got a wooden clean out plug of sorts to clean the white residue powder left in your stack after use. I do not recall what American Flyer first used, I believe some kind of oil in the stack? Arnold Rapido of Germany was going to offer their US 2-8-2 with smoke. It would have been the same drivetrain and Seuth Smoke Generator as their DB German 2-8-2, but this never happened. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.
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Thanks . This is a screen shot from the video
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/medium_53-210123173327.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=32075)
Lol!...Yup. In English it says "Lightweight", but in German, the correct interpretation is "Steam Oil, Light"
So..."lightweight" and "light"...the same!
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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That makes me wonder what BLI used in H0 steam generators? Bunker C oil? :D
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To me, it's seems like a whole lot of fan fair to get 4 minutes of smoke out of a full reservoir. I know they can only get so much in an n scale boiler but stopping every 4 minutes to get more smoke just seems :|
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To me, it's seems like a whole lot of fan fair to get 4 minutes of smoke out of a full reservoir. I know they can only get so much in an n scale boiler but stopping every 4 minutes to get more smoke just seems :|
I agree.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Spotted one in the wild today!
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/2646-250123194446.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=32102)
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IMHO,, the smoke makes this a toyish Lionel type loco from the '50's - 60s'. But my real question is for all you UP experts, and I'll admit I have not gone through this entire thread, but did the UP ever paint a Big Boy in the Two Tone Grey scheme ? ? Or has BLI done a ConCor deal ?
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I'm still trying to figure out why my tender keeps derailing and I'm starting to think it has something to do with this rather byzantine drawbar situation -
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/medium_1935-260123170525.jpeg)
What I'm seeing is that the cab will swing way out when the loco enters a curve (and note that my tightest curve is 19" radius). Then, when it re-enters a straight and the cab swings back over the rails, there is an audible click accompanied by a noticeable jump in the tender. At this point the tender will more often than not run crooked with one of its wheels derailed until it hits my double x-over and then rerails itself. So, it seems like that drawbar is getting a bit hung up in the curve-to-straight transition, building up pressure, and then breaking loose with excessive force.
Anybody else seeing this? Anybody else actually running one of these things?
Thanks,
-Mark
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That looks like a typical "Kinematic" design for drawbars or coupler mounts. It is designed for close coupling on tangent track but extend the coupler spacing when on curves. To work properly it needs to have smooth action. Sounds like it is binding.
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I'm seeing noticeable wear in the edges of that "^" shaped slot that the drawbar pin moves around in. Maybe if I run this beast around in circles on my layout for another couple of decades that'll all smooth out? :P
-Mark
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That injector pin mark (round circle) might be raised around the edge and causing problems. Just an idea.
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That injector pin mark (round circle) might be raised around the edge and causing problems. Just an idea.
Beat me to it, but worth leveling out.
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Put some dry lube in the "V"?
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IMHO,, the smoke makes this a toyish Lionel type loco from the '50's - 60s'. But my real question is for all you UP experts, and I'll admit I have not gone through this entire thread, but did the UP ever paint a Big Boy in the Two Tone Grey scheme ? ? Or has BLI done a ConCor deal ?
UP only used the "Greyhound" scheme on steam locos that pulled non-Streamliner passenger trains. The Big Boy, as designed, operated as a freight loco and did not pull any revenue passenger trains. So this is a certified foobie livery.
The question is , should you buy a BLI Big Boy with smoke, or an Athearn Big Boy with sound, the Athearn locomotives are getting harder to find as they have been out (current release) for a while, or do you wait and go for the KATO Sound equipped Big Boy which is only the Excursion Locomotive with Oil Tender. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
Well here's the thing: If you want a highly detailed model, go for the Athearn. If you want smoke, go for BLI. And (judging on their reputation only), if you want a smooth runner, go for Kato.
Some N scalers are complaining, "Do we really need another Big Boy?"
I disagree! Being a former HO scaler, having competing models of the same prototype is not only common, but expected, and I feel like N scalers have long been conditioned to just settle for what's offered. NOT ANYMORE! N scalers once had to settle for Con Cor's crappy toylike autoracks. Now there's 4 or 5 different manufacturers putting out those models. The N scale market is more resembling the HO market now. We have this thing called choice now, and it's not only great for N scale, but great for the hobby in general. You don't have a dying hobby when there's more choices.
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The N scale market is more resembling the HO market now. We have this thing called choice now, and it's not only great for N scale, but great for the hobby in general. You don't have a dying hobby when there's more choices.
While that may be true, nowadays every model is "limited run" and often sold be reservations. So I doubt we will actually have 4 different Big Boys available for sale at the same time. You might have to wait several years to get the one you want (assuming that it will be produced again).
EDIT: I should have said 3, as the chances of the Rivarossi/Con-Cor one ever being produced again are non-existent. Plus I don't compare product availability of N scale to H0 (they are totally different markets), and I would much rather have larger variety of models from all the manufacturers than multiple of the same model; at least when locomotives are concerned.
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Ay yi yi, it's just one problem after another with this thing. I finally had to pull out my Athearn Big Boy just to remind myself what a good running loco looks like :facepalm:
-Mark
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Ay yi yi, it's just one problem after another with this thing. I finally had to pull out my Athearn Big Boy just to remind myself what a good running loco looks like :facepalm:
-Mark
. . . but wait til you get the Kato. :D
Yeah, I don't recall any operational problems with my Athearn Bog Boys or Challengers.
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I don't think anyone would be complaining about the numerous Big Boys being produced, if manufacturers were also making multiple versions of other steam locomotives. My problem is that it seems like right now, everyone is all in on Big Boys, which have a limited road appeal. Give me some USRA Santa Fes (2-10-2s), which virtually every road had some version, and I would be happy as a clam.
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I disagree! Being a former HO scaler, having competing models of the same prototype is not only common, but expected, and I feel like N scalers have long been conditioned to just settle for what's offered. NOT ANYMORE! N scalers once had to settle for Con Cor's crappy toylike autoracks. Now there's 4 or 5 different manufacturers putting out those models. The N scale market is more resembling the HO market now. We have this thing called choice now, and it's not only great for N scale, but great for the hobby in general. You don't have a dying hobby when there's more choices.
I don't know that the hobby is dying. Manufacturers are, I think, shooting themselves in the foot by (a) only making products "to order" and thereby not having products on the shelves and available and (b) by frequently piling on and producing their personal variation of the same prototypes, thereby competing with each other for a small segment of the market, and ignoring other segments.
Note that the various autoracks available are NOT all the same prototype. This allows those interested to run a variety of prototypes, and/or more accurately model their preferred roads.
The loco I give BLI credit for- in terms of expanding the hobby and giving us more choices, is the Reading T1. A small drivered 4-8-4 that has a lot of possibilities for detailing/kitbashing into other road's locomotives. Out of my price range, for the moment anyway, but at least something that was not previously available.
IF you are a UP modeler modeling a freight main line in the early 1950s, having 4 companies making Big Boys may seem great. But for the rest of us? No choice at all- just 2 years worth of new product development from several companies that we can't use. I think the N scale portion of the hobby would be much healthier if we actually had choice, like the choice between buying a UP 4-8-8-4 or a couple ATSF 2-10-2s. If we had good running steam switchers. If we had manufacturers bold enough to make a steam loco that wasn't USRA, PRR or UP. And the ability to buy one when we want one, instead of having them available for pre-order for a couple months every 5 years (followed by a year or more of waiting for the actual manufacture, and often suffering disappointment for one reason or another upon delivery).
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I don't think anyone would be complaining about the numerous Big Boys being produced, if manufacturers were also making multiple versions of other steam locomotives. My problem is that it seems like right now, everyone is all in on Big Boys, which have a limited road appeal. Give me some USRA Santa Fes (2-10-2s), which virtually every road had some version, and I would be happy as a clam.
It is sad when you compare US market with European market. There, not only they have much, much larger variety of steam engines produced in the past, the manufacturers usually come out with few new models every year. Or re-run some older model, usually making some improvements. Yes, there is some duplication between manufacturers, but the variety is still much larger than what is available in American steam.
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I'm still trying to figure out why my tender keeps derailing and I'm starting to think it has something to do with this rather byzantine drawbar situation -
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/medium_1935-260123170525.jpeg)
What I'm seeing is that the cab will swing way out when the loco enters a curve (and note that my tightest curve is 19" radius). Then, when it re-enters a straight and the cab swings back over the rails, there is an audible click accompanied by a noticeable jump in the tender. At this point the tender will more often than not run crooked with one of its wheels derailed until it hits my double x-over and then rerails itself. So, it seems like that drawbar is getting a bit hung up in the curve-to-straight transition, building up pressure, and then breaking loose with excessive force.
Anybody else seeing this? Anybody else actually running one of these things?
Thanks,
-Mark
This is indeed a kinematic drawbar, very common on European rolling stock. But the way this one is done, doesn’t look very good. Having this kind of mechanism in the cab area of the loco is most likely causing the problems due to the big overhang in curves and vertical motion of the cab.
Marc
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This is indeed a kinematic drawbar, very common on European rolling stock. But the way this one is done, doesn’t look very good. Having this kind of mechanism in the cab area of the loco is most likely causing the problems due to the big overhang in curves and vertical motion of the cab.
Marc
But it's a "smoker"!!
Sorry, couldn't resist . . . :facepalm:
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UP only used the "Greyhound" scheme on steam locos that pulled non-Streamliner passenger trains. The Big Boy, as designed, operated as a freight loco and did not pull any revenue passenger trains. So this is a certified foobie livery.
Well here's the thing: If you want a highly detailed model, go for the Athearn. If you want smoke, go for BLI. And (judging on their reputation only), if you want a smooth runner, go for Kato.
Some N scalers are complaining, "Do we really need another Big Boy?"
I disagree! Being a former HO scaler, having competing models of the same prototype is not only common, but expected, and I feel like N scalers have long been conditioned to just settle for what's offered. NOT ANYMORE! N scalers once had to settle for Con Cor's crappy toylike autoracks. Now there's 4 or 5 different manufacturers putting out those models. The N scale market is more resembling the HO market now. We have this thing called choice now, and it's not only great for N scale, but great for the hobby in general. You don't have a dying hobby when there's more choices.
Yeah, but unlike ho, we haven't had every model of every locomotive and car produced in plastic and brass multiple times. It's kinda hard to attract more modelers to N when all you can buy are the same damned big boys, gg1s, f-units, or anything modern.
The amount of steam models produced since 2005ish is dismal. Why limit what we can buy with four manufactures making the same model. That's what makes people switch to ho.....
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But it's a "smoker"!!
Sorry, couldn't resist . . . :facepalm:
I don’t smoke and don’t want to start smoking, not even in N scale. :D
Just serious, burning oil doesn’t look very convincing. Maybe the system shown in this video becomes available for N. Looks more convincing and it’s only water.
(https://youtu.be/2loD0i5n-qo) />
Marc
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I applaud BLI for doing a smoker in N scale . It was a something here before not done in N . It is not their fault that smoke generators don't last for as long as we want given the size restraints . The fact that we have one to capture in a photo or a video now is cool IMO . Maybe in the future , one of your favorite locos will feature a longer lasting SG . BLI was the company that did it first . Would I buy another smoker ? It would have to be in a model not yet produced for the Union Pacific .
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I applaud BLI for doing a smoker in N scale . It was a something here before not done in N . It is not their fault that smoke generators don't last for as long as we want given the size restraints . The fact that we have one to capture in a photo or a video now is cool IMO . Maybe in the future , one of your favorite locos will feature a longer lasting SG . BLI was the company that did it first . Would I buy another smoker ? It would have to be in a model not yet produced for the Union Pacific .
Smoking steam engines were done in N scale in the 1970s. Even at least on US prototype (a Y6B, if memory serves).
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Smoking steam engines were done in N scale in the 1970s. Even at least on US prototype (a Y6B, if memory serves).
You are correct Sir
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=14920.0
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I broke down and ordered a BLI No. 4023 after having a long phone conversation with Robert 3985 (Bob Gilmore) who has just received two of these locomotives and hopefully will do a review soon. Mine has shipped from Hog Trainz and will arrive next week. This is to run on the Wasatch N Scale layout at shows. Yes I still have a KATO Sound Equipped 4014 on order to pull excursion cars. Nate Goodman. (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.
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Arnold's 4-6-2 and 4-6-4 were both available with smoke generators back in the late 60's -
(http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/arnoldsmoke2.jpg)
-Mark
P.S. My apologies if you can't see the picture, my website is not https and some browsers don't like that.
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I sent mine back for a refund before it was too late (and before even trying to take it apart). Gave it a well earned "F" rating, what a piece of junk.
-Mark
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I sent mine back for a refund before it was too late (and before even trying to take it apart). Gave it a well earned "F" rating, what a piece of junk.
-Mark
I'm really curious if others have experienced this as well? So far, the reviews on it have seemed to be good. Maybe you got a lemon, which isn't good for BLI considering the work you've put into your database review system.
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I don’t smoke and don’t want to start smoking, not even in N scale. :D
Just serious, burning oil doesn’t look very convincing. Maybe the system shown in this video becomes available for N. Looks more convincing and it’s only water.
Marc
I didn't realize that those larger scale locos with realistic "smoke" do not use standard boiling oil smoke generators, but actual water. Probably something similar to cool-mist humidifiers. Now it makes sense why the imitation steam/smoke looks realistic - that is because it is the same stuff as what comes out in 1:1 locos.
Here is another excellent example of excellent smoke simulation in a larger scale train.
Unfortunately from what I see, realistic "smoke" doesn't scale well. Then there is a problem with finding space in a N scale loco for the mechanism, decoder, smoke generator with fans, while still having some weight - enough to make the loco pull a decent size train. Even just the smoke generator (with a reservoir) and fans would be pretty much impossible to fit in N scale. I don't know, maybe some day there will be nano-fans small enough to make this viable, but I still think that it will not look very realistic because like I mentioned, smoke (or water vapor) doesn't scale well.
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I sent mine back for a refund before it was too late (and before even trying to take it apart). Gave it a well earned "F" rating, what a piece of junk.
-Mark
For the price tag on these, the Loco should be flawless. I bet Kato's Big Boy will run like a Swiss watch.
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I applaud BLI for doing a smoker in N scale . It was a something here before not done in N . It is not their fault that smoke generators don't last for as long as we want given the size restraints . The fact that we have one to capture in a photo or a video now is cool IMO . Maybe in the future , one of your favorite locos will feature a longer lasting SG . BLI was the company that did it first . Would I buy another smoker ? It would have to be in a model not yet produced for the Union Pacific .
Yeah...like a TTT or a real UP MacArthur. :D
And, I agree about the smoke possibly adding to the ambiance in a photo or close-in video.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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And, I agree about the smoke possibly adding to the ambiance in a photo or close-in video.
IMO, Photoshoping smoke after taking the photo of a smoke-free model would look more realistic than the "real" N scale smoke.
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IMO, Photoshoping smoke after taking the photo of a smoke-free model would look more realistic than the "real" N scale smoke.
Yeah...you're probably right about that, but I thought a slow exposure would blur the "real" smoke some, and maybe make it more realistic.
However, after disassembling one of these and seeing how nice the stacks look without the bright brass smoke generators making themselves so very obvious....and also looking at how easy removing the smoke generator unit looks to be...I'm pretty sure mine will be removed and any "smoke" in future photos will be shopped.
Compared to the shallow stacks on the Athearn Big Boy with that fugly screw in the rear stack, the BLI Big Boy's stack, and included folded and unfolded stack "smoke hood", really look great without the brassy smoke generators.
Photo (1) - BLI Big Boy Smoke Hood:
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/1200-300123001041.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=32186)
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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FYI, if anyone is interested, MBK has 10% off locomotives right now and these apply:
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/trains/locomotives/#/filter:custom_scale:N
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The first thing that jumps out at me is that circular mold mark right at the center "V". It looks like it is raised above the surrounding surfaces.
And the surfaces themselves look slightly rough, almost like a 3D print surface. That drawbar/slot system has to be smooth like a mirror - smooth like the glossy surfaces on a Microtrains truck bolster - for it to work. And I wouldn't bother with any kind of lube, graphite or otherwise. This problem has to be solved mechanically. The surfaces have to be so smooth that the pin cannot possibly hang up in there no matter what angle, no matter what forces are on it.
Perhaps somebody with a BLI engine that is NOT exhibiting this problem would post a super-close-up of that same drawbar area, so we can compare them? This might be a manufacturing tolerance or QA problem. Maybe that raised circular area isn't that pronounced on all of them.
I'm still trying to figure out why my tender keeps derailing and I'm starting to think it has something to do with this rather byzantine drawbar situation -
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/medium_1935-260123170525.jpeg)
What I'm seeing is that the cab will swing way out when the loco enters a curve (and note that my tightest curve is 19" radius). Then, when it re-enters a straight and the cab swings back over the rails, there is an audible click accompanied by a noticeable jump in the tender. At this point the tender will more often than not run crooked with one of its wheels derailed until it hits my double x-over and then rerails itself. So, it seems like that drawbar is getting a bit hung up in the curve-to-straight transition, building up pressure, and then breaking loose with excessive force.
Anybody else seeing this? Anybody else actually running one of these things?
Thanks,
-Mark
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FYI, if anyone is interested, MBK has 10% off locomotives right now and these apply:
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/trains/locomotives/#/filter:custom_scale:N
I think the sale ended yesterday, 1/29.
But I think the 10% off Train World sale is ending today. But 10% does not apply to new release or pre-order.
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I think the sale ended yesterday, 1/29.
But I think the 10% off Train World sale is ending today. But 10% does not apply to new release or pre-order.
Lol. Would you believe the banner was still up when I posted that?
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Yes, I would. Sometimes companies don't get around to it until the next day unless they have automatic scripts that remove it a stroke after midnight. But I'm sure if you try to order the 10% off code won't work.
Go to Amherst. If you look carefully you can get real bargains like Atlas ESU Loksound diesels for $125-$130 or Bachmann SC-44 for $225 or 50% off BLI list prices. So many stuff, so little cash! :facepalm:
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"WOO KA CHOO" my BLI No. 4023 Big Boy arrived today, fast shipping from Hog Trainz. It is painted and numbered for the locomotive that is on the locomotive in Keneflick Park in Omaha, Nebraska. Like all these models it has "Paragon Sound" which can be broadcast through speakers under a layout (who needs this feature) has a pipet in the packaging for applying Fleishman Light Oil if I had any and wanted a smoker. I will not be able to operate/run mine until the March Ogden Train Show on the Wasatch N Scale Layout. Yes I still have a KATO 4014 with LOC Sound on order to pull excursion trains . Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.
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The first thing that jumps out at me is that circular mold mark right at the center "V". It looks like it is raised above the surrounding surfaces.
And the surfaces themselves look slightly rough, almost like a 3D print surface. That drawbar/slot system has to be smooth like a mirror - smooth like the glossy surfaces on a Microtrains truck bolster - for it to work. And I wouldn't bother with any kind of lube, graphite or otherwise. This problem has to be solved mechanically. The surfaces have to be so smooth that the pin cannot possibly hang up in there no matter what angle, no matter what forces are on it.
Perhaps somebody with a BLI engine that is NOT exhibiting this problem would post a super-close-up of that same drawbar area, so we can compare them? This might be a manufacturing tolerance or QA problem. Maybe that raised circular area isn't that pronounced on all of them.
The "circular mold mark" on mine is actually slightly indented. I don't have any problems on my test trackage which consists of two 6' Code55 tracks, a programming track, a hand-laid #6 dead-frog turnout made to "tight" NMRA standards, and an old ME #6 that's also a dead frog. Both my customer's 4014 and my own 4012 roll through this crossover smooth as silk.
By the way, I checked the gauge on every wheelset on both BLI Big Boys, and every wheelset was spot-on...the second N-scale engine I've ever had that was correctly gauged straight out of the box like all of my Kato FEF-3's.
Photo (1) - BLI #4014's trailing truck & drawbar configuration:
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/1200-010223030015.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=32215)
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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The "circular mold mark" on mine is actually slightly indented. I don't have any problems on my test trackage which consists of two 6' Code55 tracks, a programming track, a hand-laid #6 dead-frog turnout made to "tight" NMRA standards, and an old ME #6 that's also a dead frog. Both my customer's 4014 and my own 4012 roll through this crossover smooth as silk.
By the way, I checked the gauge on every wheelset on both BLI Big Boys, and every wheelset was spot-on...the second N-scale engine I've ever had that was correctly gauged straight out of the box like all of my Kato FEF-3's.
Photo (1) - BLI #4014's trailing truck & drawbar configuration:
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/1200-010223030015.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=32215)
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
As I'm looking at this photo, I noticed that the lead truck on the tender doesn't pivot on the mounting screw but slides back and forth. I wonder if Mark's issue was something to do with that screw being over tightened or if there was some flashing on the post.
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The "circular mold mark" on mine is actually slightly indented. I don't have any problems on my test trackage which consists of two 6' Code55 tracks, a programming track, a hand-laid #6 dead-frog turnout made to "tight" NMRA standards, and an old ME #6 that's also a dead frog. Both my customer's 4014 and my own 4012 roll through this crossover smooth as silk.
By the way, I checked the gauge on every wheelset on both BLI Big Boys, and every wheelset was spot-on...the second N-scale engine I've ever had that was correctly gauged straight out of the box like all of my Kato FEF-3's.
Photo (1) - BLI #4014's trailing truck & drawbar configuration:
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/1200-010223030015.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=32215)
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
I don't own one of these, but that design is the same as Bachmann used on the Acela set. Mold mark and flash caused the same thing.
Unscrew those screws and pull the drawbar cover off and look at what you find. I'd be willing to bet there is one or more of the following:
flash
mold line
mold dimple
Also check the drawbar itself.
Any imperfection could cause this hangup.
I just saw Spookshow's scathing review (ouch!!! :scared: )- which caused me to look at this thread again.
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... I just saw Spookshow's scathing review (ouch!!! :scared: ) ...
You made me look - "ouch!!!" is right! Wow. Mark was apparently so bummed by his RSD-15 experience that he was armed for bear with the Big Boy, and he found it.
Mechanical design issues with the Big Boy aside, BLI really needs to get off their custom sound decoder jag. ~$500 for something you can't run seriously? They're not helping their own cause.
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That looks like a typical "Kinematic" design for drawbars or coupler mounts.
What's 'typical' about it. I only know of the Kato ones, and this isn't designed like that.
I wish I could see with the cover plate removed to show the pivot that is forcing the drawbar to straighten out when pulled? There could also be some binding under that plate.
Jason
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A well thought out, engineered, and problem free design.
It can be done.
[attachimg=1]
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What's 'typical' about it. I only know of the Kato ones, and this isn't designed like that.
Jason
YEs, it is atypical for US prototype models, but used on most currently produced European prototypes. Even on their short 2-axle freigth cars. I buy quite a bit of those so I'm familiar with the design.
Generically "Kinematic" means that the coupler (or a drawbar) is mounted in such a way that allows it to extend as it swings to the sides (so the close coupled models can safely traverse tight curves). This is accomplished by having the coupler arm (or drawbar) follow a gull-wing shape oping in the floor (just like it is clearly visible in the BLI Big Boy model).
In US prototype models, as Ron mentioned, I think the first use of the kinematic coupling system one was Bachmann Acela couplers. Then Kato used it on some of their passenger cars. The FVM Hiawatha passenger cars are another example, as is the BLI Pennsy heavyweight car. I dont' recall any more, but here might be others too.
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A well thought out, engineered, and problem free design.
It can be done.
Ah another example of Kato's clever, simple, and reliable design.
Yes, that is true, but for some reason many model designers in China think they can design a "better mouse trap" instead of simply using proven working designs. I see examples of that in many recently produced models.
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Boy, this brings me back to my early teens when I was fascinated by smoking models.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/9-020223144956.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=32232)
I had to chuckle when I read that...
You can go back to discussing locomotives now...
Lee
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(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/9-020223144956.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=32232)
I had to chuckle when I read that...
You can go back to discussing locomotives now...
Lee
You made me laugh out loud Lee - thanks!
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IMO, Photoshoping smoke after taking the photo of a smoke-free model would look more realistic than the "real" N scale smoke.
Like this Pete??
(http://www.traincat2.com/images/photos/bno2.jpg)
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I'm going to guess a smoker Big Boy will impress the heck out of young boys and girls who just might be inspired into the hobby, either now or later in life. I can't count the number of times I've run a Bachmann EM-1 at a show or other public event to have some young people rush up and say "Big Boy." I suspect the same kiddos will be even more impressed by an actual BB with smoke. There _is_ a reason a for profit corporation has spent millions restoring and operating the real thing.
When I was perhaps five, Dad let me operate a few of his Lionel locomotives (A bell ringing 622 NW1 comes to mind), but the real deal was when he pulled out the 726 Berkshire and fired up the smoke. In 1946, that 726 had run an entire Christmas season in a Department Store display and was and purchased by Grandpa post season (he worked at the store). A few years ago, I replaced the motor, e-unit, rewired it, rebuilt the smoke unit, had to shim the driver axles with pieces of teflon on one side (perhaps from all those trips around the display layout) and taught my kids to run it. This weekend, my youngest will be running N-scale at the Great Scale show on two FreemoN modules he has just finished.
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Generically "Kinematic" means that the coupler (or a drawbar) is mounted in such a way that allows it to extend as it swings to the sides (so the close coupled models can safely traverse tight curves). This is accomplished by having the coupler arm (or drawbar) follow a gull-wing shape oping in the floor (just like it is clearly visible in the BLI Big Boy model).
Okay, if you over simplify it, then sure, it's 'typical'. I would assert that the 'gull-wing' shape is not only a small part of the design, but the also simplest part basically requiring no thought . The real engineering is getting the coupler back to center, especially under a load.
Jason
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Okay, if you over simplify it, then sure, it's 'typical'. I would assert that the 'gull-wing' shape is not only a small part of the design, but the also simplest part basically requiring no thought . The real engineering is getting the coupler back to center, especially under a load.
Jason
In my experience with the Kinematic design the centering of rolling stock couplers is done by a spring (either a coil spring or just a thin flexible steel wire). With drawbars there usually isn't any spring - the drawbar will center itself when the loco and tender return to tangent track. The wheels (and flanges) of the "drawbared" vehicles generate enough lateral force for that to happen. Like I mentioned this is nothing new and has been utilized on many models.
EDIT: Just to give more accurate picture, the (weak) centering springs for the Kinematic mechanism in individual pieces of the rolling stock are only needed to center the coupler when it is not coupled (so the centered coupler can actually couple to other cars). While cars are coupled in a train the springs are too weak to provide centering action. Coupled cars behave the same way as the drawbar Kinematic setup. They will self center when the cars exit the curve and get to tangent track
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KATO No. 4014 Big Boy on its way to me. Got the notice my sound equipped KATO 4014 Big Boy has been shipped to me from Hog Trainz. I know the BLI locomotive I received represents an in service locomotive not the excursion loco. The the cost the fully featured BLI locomotive is about half as much as the KATO with sound. It will be interesting to see if the KATO locomotive is worth the extra money, since I could have bought an excursion version 4014 from BLI. The KATO is available three ways, DC , DCC, and DCC Sound. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
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KATO No. 4014 Big Boy on its way to me. Got the notice my sound equipped KATO 4014 Big Boy has been shipped to me from Hog Trainz. I know the BLI locomotive I received represents an in service locomotive not the excursion loco. The the cost the fully featured BLI locomotive is about half as much as the KATO with sound. It will be interesting to see if the KATO locomotive is worth the extra money, since I could have bought an excursion version 4014 from BLI. The KATO is available three ways, DC , DCC, and DCC Sound. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
How much did HOG charge you? The DCC sound Kato and BLI Paragon 4 have the same msrp of 599 so it seems a little weird that the BLI would be half as expensive of the Kato
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My BLI 4023 Big Boy through Hog Trainz was $449.00 the KATO Just around eight hundred some. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
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Stock #
126-4014-S
Taking Pre-Orders through 12/28/2022
July 2023 Delivery
Description
N Union Pacific Big Boy Steam Locomotive w/ Soundtraxx DCC + Sound
Road #
4014
MSRP
$599
From Kato website today
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Well, i got mine this weekend. First, I need to say I run DC. This engine is a complete disappointment. It does not run well on DC. It has trouble crossing my PECO turnouts. I have a new KATO steeple cab that will cross these turnouts without any trouble at all. I think the problem is there can be a quick momentary loss of power when a loco crosses these turnouts. Most of my diesel lights will flicker when going across them, but never stall. When BLI's big boy goes across and gets this momentary loss, it has to stop and reset itself. None of my Bachmann locos do this. In fact, my best steam loco is a Bachmann 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone with it's dual mode decoder. I really have gotten to like Bachmann's steam. This is one nice loco. it also out pulls the BLI big boy pulling 19 passenger cars up a 2 percent grade around a 180 degrees turn.
One more thing, you can't add a diesel loco as UP is doing right now with there excursion model, at least not using DC.
I also have 3 Athearn Big Boys. The first one I got requires a special control to run on DC, which is unacceptable. It has been redecorated to my own logo. Any one want to make an offer on this, I would make someone a great deal. The next 2 versions of the Athearn model are much better but don't pull as good as the Bachmann or BLI.
My BLI is an undecorated one. I'm holding off decaling it because I don't think I will keep it. Waiting on a KATO version. If anyone wants this loco, and can't find it at a retail store anywhere, make me an offer. I will probably sell it. Might even send it back, but don't like doing that to the retailer.
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My BLI 4023 Big Boy through Hog Trainz was $449.00 the KATO Just around eight hundred some. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
If you bought 2 of the Katos from it would be $900 plus shipping
If you only bought one something could be amiss
This is from the Hog Trainz site
UP BIG BOY RD# 4014 – DCC/LOKSOUND ($449.00 RESERVATION)
KATO 126-4014LS
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I Believe I have purchased two KATO Big Boys not one like I originally thought I had. I will see when my shipment from Hog Trainz. gets here this week. Nate Goodman . (Nato).
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Kato's website says May 2023 for the 4014...
What kind of sorcery is this???
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I pre-ordered a Kato Big Boy from hogtrainz and haven't heard a peep about it. Are you sure you aren't getting another BLI (or two)?
-Mark
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I was going to buy a Big Boy, but I made a car payment instead.
Lee
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Good Idea. Since I do not drive anymore, car payments are not my worry. Nate Goodman. (Nato).
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I heard last week that 16% of new car payments are over $1,000 a month. I'd rather buy a handful of locos.
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I heard last week that 16% of new car payments are over $1,000 a month. I'd rather buy a handful of locos.
That's why I'm still driving the 2006 Toyota Sienna I bought used in 2013 and had paid off in 2 years.
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I heard last week that 16% of new car payments are over $1,000 a month. I'd rather buy a handful of locos.
I've priced out a few trucks that hit 1500 bucks a month, that's too rich for my blood. I seriously don't know how some people can afford a mortgage payment as a car payment.
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The 2017 car I bought 3 years ago in 2020, but with way more miles and 3 years older now costs $4-5K more. :scared:
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Here's my ride. Been in the family since it was new. '94 Honda Accord EX... Took this shot whilst researching local UP grade crossings...
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/32/1200-140223143303.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=32389)
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore