TheRailwire
General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: Lemosteam on February 06, 2021, 12:09:57 PM
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Keystone Details is now offering a snap on magnetic turnout actuator specifically for Atlas Custom Line Code 80 manual turnouts. The kit includes enough parts to up-fit four turnouts, and includes eight snap on PRR style pneumatic switch machines (4 LH, 4RH) to act as grips to move the points. These can be left off and actuated by simply moving the points if they .
A small pocket 19mm across rails x 12mm along rails and 8mm deep under the throw bar is all that is required.
In case you might be wondering, the magnets are far enough below the turnout to prevent attracting coupler trip pins or steel wheels.
Magnets are not included. See the Keystone Details listings for links to the 0.125” diameter X 0,625” thick magnets and installation instructions.
They can be purchased here (http://www.keystonedetails.com/keystone-customs/2021/2/6/4-pk-n-scale-atlas-custom-line-magnetic-turnout-actuator-4me5z).
I will be investigating a simillar adaptation for Code 55 turnouts that do not require frog powering.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57b4ec6829687f9e19a9a279/1612614083872-MQGI3008GBULZOCRRV93/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kDHPSfPanjkWqhH6pl6g5ph7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z4YTzHvnKhyp6Da-NYroOW3ZGjoBKy3azqku80C789l0mwONMR1ELp49Lyc52iWr5dNb1QJw9casjKdtTg1_-y4jz4ptJBmI9gQmbjSQnNGng/image5.jpeg?format=2500w)
Here is a video of the switch being actuated:
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Wow, very impressive! Atlas should step up and purchase this product and the planned Code 55 throw from you for mass-production. If I was still in N scale, I would redo every turnout on my layout.
Kudzos,
DFF
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WOW John, I like it. Really creative idea
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Nice implementation. Micro-trains Z scale turnouts also use magnets.
Jason
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John,
Very slick! I look forward to seeing the Code 55 version.
Scott
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Keystone Details is now offering a snap on magnetic turnout actuator specifically for Atlas Custom Line Code 80 manual turnouts. The kit includes enough parts to upfit four turnouts, and includes eight snap on PRR style pneumatic swithch machines (4 LH, 4RH) to act as grips to move the points. These can be left off and actuated by simply moving the points if they .
A small pocket under the throw bar is all that is required.
In case you might be wondering, the magnets are far enough below the turnout to prevent attracting coupler trip pins or steel wheels.
Magnets are not included. See the Keystone Details listings for links to the 0.125” diameter X 0,625” thick magnets and installation instructions.
They can be purchased here (http://www.keystonedetails.com/keystone-customs/2021/2/6/4-pk-n-scale-atlas-custom-line-magnetic-turnout-actuator).
I will be investigating a simillar adaptation for Code 55 turnouts that do not require frog powering.
Here is a video of the switch being actuated:
Would probably use a few of those if I do another project with code 80. That said, on the front of frog powering, would it be possible to add a notch to the motor casting that would accept a Miniatronics or equivalent microswitch slider? Or would that compromise the integrity of the 3d printed part? and or be too difficult for most people to accurately mount?
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Do magnets conduct electricity?..
Attach one rail to 1 magnet, attach the other rail to the other magnet..attach the frog to the center actuator..?
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Just frog juice it.
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Very nice!
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Eager for the code 55 version
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Eager for the code 55 version
Having decided to move my focus from east of Columbus to west of Columbus in the design stage and needing more code 55 turnouts I am as well.
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Do magnets conduct electricity?..
Attach one rail to 1 magnet, attach the other rail to the other magnet..attach the frog to the center actuator..?
Note that in this design, the magnets ever touch.
Yes, they are nickel plated, but you cannot solder to them or the magnetic properties will ruin.
I tried this once with a design on the guides outside the switch, and it was not robust enough unfortunately.
The design snapped the magnet in plaxpce against a PB wire that you the soldered flex wire to.
So in this case each outer magnet would have to carry the reds and black, and a green would go from the center two magnets to the frog..
Snce FUD can print very fine holes like 0.010”, I may be able to pull this off under the switch. Of course it would require clearance under the switch for the wires.
On the C55 side, I’m hoping there will be enough room between the throw bar and the guide ties, so fingers crossed.
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My other idea was to design it to accept a micro switch instead of magnets.. but the frog juicer idea is a good idea.
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My other idea was to design it to accept a micro switch instead of magnets.. but the frog juicer idea is a good idea.
But without magnets, what would keep the points pressed against the stock rail?
Since Atlas switches do not have throwbar spring, the magnets are used to generate the force needed for keeping the points against the stock rail.
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But without magnets, what would keep the points pressed against the stock rail?
Since Atlas switches do not have throwbar spring, the magnets are used to generate the force needed for keeping the points against the stock rail.
Well, in theory, the micro switch would keep the points against the rail, in concert with piano wire or something similar.
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Well, in theory, the micro switch would keep the points against the rail, in concert with piano wire or something similar.
I guess I was misunderstanding. To me "micro switch" is one of those switches with a plunger (and sometimes a lever attached) that has a spring-loaded plunger. Like the switches inside a computer mouse. I guess then nkalanga meant a "miniture SPST or DPDT slide switch". That makes sense now.
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I can tell you without a doubt that the wired solution will work. the lack of robustness was from the common post approach I took: A steel 00-90 screw threaded into the (very thin) throwbar that requred a brass sleeve and a soldered wire. The screw and throwbar became loose and was very flexible leading to reliability issues. BUT, the PB wire delivered perfect continuity to the frog every time, when the screw stayed properly secured. The design also required initial shimming to center the screw on the magnets.
The C80 design above self centers based on the design of the turnout parts limiting tolerance accumulation issues.
Here is an old image of my original C55 concept that I plan to revise similar to the C80 design above when @Ed Kapuscinski threw the idea at me. Red and black wires carry track power and the green wire goes to the frog. Flex wire will make this very robust the only wire that actually moves is the green wire and this could be looped and secured to the bottom of the switch a few ties away to allow for the wire to flex within the pocket that would need to be provided. The red and black wires will never move.
The simplicity is quite remarkable, if I do say so myself.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-080221080744.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22616)
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All I ask is my own cabana when you buy your island with the proceeds. :D
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What about ballasting? It's not hard to imagine glue or ballast messing with the sliding mechanism.
Jason
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That issue exists with or without this, no?
Most folks try hard to prevent paint and ballast in this area don’t they? This kinda fills the gaps in between the throwbar and guide ties, so that may even help.
@Ed Kapuscinski all I can offer is a 3D printed N Scale cabana...
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You MAY :o want to coreect the thread title... :facepalm:
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You MAY :o want to coreect the thread title... :facepalm:
If I meant Kadee, I would have used Kadee. Many folks refer to Keystone Details as KD, and it leaves more characters for the title!
:trollface: :trollface: :D
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If I meant Kadee, I would have used Kadee. Many folks refer to Keystone Details as KD, and it leaves more characters for the title!
:trollface: :trollface: :D
No John, it is the other word. Try again. :)
But KD also confuses me because first thing that comes to my mind is Kadee.
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On the other hand, although it might be a typo of "turnout", it would also make a dandy trademark name for this device.
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On the other hand, although it might be a typo of "turnout", it would also make a dandy trademark name for this device.
Wait, is Magne-matic still taken? Lol
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Wait, is Magne-matic still taken? Lol
JOhn, I know it is hard to believe, but we were being serious. Reread the subject line.
"KD now offersing a magnetic trurout throw" I make typos all the time, so I can relate. Or are you shooting for another banner image like "piling grapes"? :)
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@Ed Kapuscinski all I can offer is a 3D printed N Scale cabana...
You know what, I'll take an H3 kit.
I just won one of the Athearn engines on eBay so I can do one for myself now too.
Now to find "NCR" decals (in the PRR style).
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waiting to find the H3 kits on the website?
been checking each day...
hoping they will be available soon or if there's a different route to follow
in order to get them?
sincerely
Gary
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Atlas C55 almost complete:
Design is shown in centered (pseudo) position. center mag travels until contact with outer mag carrying polarity through the mag to the frog in either position. PB wire is fed through the holders and bent. Magnets snap into the holders and interfere with the PB wires and traps them in place and maintains continuity. +, - and frog wires are then soldered to the P, for continuity.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-100221145713.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22637)
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I am really looking forward to these.
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John, this is really such a good piece of work on so many levels. The design is simple and adaptable to many turnout types,
and this is something that the model train world really needs. Big klunky ground throws are awful looking, slide switches, no matter how tiny, look like slide switches and have to be disguised. Dependence on steel spring wires requires the user to fine-tune them so there is correct pressure in both directions.
This gets rid of ALL that. Compact, simple, and cosmetically good looking. In good engineering, there is always a strong element of "inventor", I believe. You have really hit the nail on the head here.
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I am really looking forward to these.
I just received test prints today, and the results are excellent. I must make some very minor design tweaks and may incorporate an assembly aid for the magnets into the holders, and to install the pieces onto the throwbar and guide blocks.
I have tested the electrical continuity of this iteration and that works great.
Here are some pics:
Continuity check on the throwbar slide. All of the magnets snap into their respective holders.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-010321175321.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22947)
This is the fixed magnet holder as I thread the PB wire through the wormholes in the print.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-010321175346.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22948)
This is the wire that the magnets trap.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-010321175409.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22949)
These are the continuity checks, last one I must have slipped.
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-010321175430.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22950)
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-010321175449.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22951)
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-010321175537.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22952)
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/22/2711-010321175614.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=22953)
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Thanks Max!
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What is "1216"? :?
Would be helpful to see what range the multimeter was set to.
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It’s just a value that deviates from 1 when I check continuity, it jumps all over as I am trying to hold the camera and the probe at the same time. Any value other than 1 means continuity right?
I will further test it after I have added the frog, + and - wires.
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I am really looking forward to these.
@jargonlet , which ones are you waiting for? The custom line version;or the code 55 version? The images below are the C55 version.
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@jargonlet , which ones are you waiting for? The custom line version;or the code 55 version? The images below are the C55 version.
The code 55 version.
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It’s just a value that deviates from 1 when I check continuity, it jumps all over as I am trying to hold the camera and the probe at the same time. Any value other than 1 means continuity right?
I will further test it after I have added the frog, + and - wires.
Ah, ok. "1" on multimeteter resistance or continuity range meand "higher than maximum reading on the selected range". Yes, on continuity range it shows open circuit. But on my multimeter I would look for zero reading in the continuity range, as when there is a valid non-1 reading, it is in ohms. Zero (ohms) would be continuity. But in this case you jiggling the leads likely cause bogus resistance readings.
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Ah, ok. "1" on multimeteter resistance or continuity range meand "higher than maximum reading on the selected range". Yes, on continuity range it shows open circuit. But on my multimeter I would look for zero reading in the continuity range, as when there is a valid non-1 reading, it is in ohms. Zero (ohms) would be continuity. But in this case you jiggling the leads likely cause bogus resistance readings.
Yes, it is difficult with these tiny parts to hold the leads steady enough to reach "0". I am not looking for a value per se, I am just watching for a value other than 1.
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The code 55 version.
That is what I thought, these will be available very soon, and I will make a similar video and announcement for the C55 version here in the Product discussion page. I am working through the assembly process currently. I want to try to be able to assemble this without any special tools or fixtures.
Stay tuned.
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Will these be thin enough that simply removing the cork roadbed under the point area will allow your mechanism enough room to rest without vertically pushing the track up?
Love the idea. I hate nothing more in our hobby than turnout mechanisms. Never found one I was any good at installing, especially not our under the table Tortoise style machines, even the Blue Point or Bull Frog manual ones.
Keeping everything above the benchwork would be a godsend.
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Will these be thin enough that simply removing the cork roadbed under the point area will allow your mechanism enough room to rest without vertically pushing the track up?
Love the idea. I hate nothing more in our hobby than turnout mechanisms. Never found one I was any good at installing, especially not our under the table Tortoise style machines, even the Blue Point or Bull Frog manual ones.
Keeping everything above the benchwork would be a godsend.
@basementcalling See this thread (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=51588.0) for the Code 55 version. a relatively small cavity is needed under the ties for this. It is as small as i can package it for the most part.
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The other thread says it requires a 10mm deep cutout under the ties. That is 5'-3" pit in N scale, so not something that would be created just by removing the ballast in a scale
roadbed cork ballast. N scale roadbed is usually ~ 1/8" thick, and 10 mm is about 3 times that.
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@Maletrain , The term roadbed cab be used to describe any material; Track on wood, track on tape, track on foam, track on cork, track on cork on foam, track on cork on wood, you name it.
Any version of roadbed will need some form of pocket under the throwbar area which may or may not be all the way through your roadbed of choice.
I will add pocket dimensions for this version above like I did for the Atlas C55 version.
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@Maletrain , The term roadbed cab be used to describe any material; Track on wood, track on tape, track on foam, track on cork, track on cork on foam, track on cork on wood, you name it.
Any version of roadbed will need some form of pocket under the throwbar area which may or may not be all the way through your roadbed of choice.
I will add pocket dimensions for this version above like I did for the Atlas C55 version.
You're right, I said "roadbed" where I meant to say "cork ballast". I picked up the term while checking MBK's site to see thickness dimensions to make the post. Fixed it with a cross-out in the post above.