TheRailwire

General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: rapidomike on June 03, 2019, 12:09:03 PM

Title: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 03, 2019, 12:09:03 PM
[Merged two threads. -gfh]

"When are you guys doing the Horizons?" - every American customer on the phone

"When are you guys doing the Comets?" - also Every American Customer

"When are you guys doing the Denver Ski Train?" - same as above

Well - YOU CAN FINALLY STOP ASKING! (and think of some new ideas for us!)

(https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/05/rapido-horizon-3drender1.jpg)
Horizon 3D Render by our very own John Sheridan

(https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/05/rapido-horizon-3drender2.jpg)
Horizon 3D Underbody Render

(https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/05/septa-cab.png)
Sexy SEPTA Comet Cab Car

(https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/06/SKITRAIN_3.jpg)
D&RG Ski Train F40PH!!! We're doing the coaches too!

https://www.rapidotrains.com

While this is a multi scale release, I'm tagging this post as N, because Comets and Horizons coming to N is huge.
Title: Rapido Trains Announcements 6/03/19 Horizon and Comet passenger cars
Post by: wcfn100 on June 03, 2019, 12:11:03 PM
Amtrak Horizon cars
https://www.rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/passenger-cars/n-scale-horizon-coaches (https://www.rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/passenger-cars/n-scale-horizon-coaches)

Comet Cars

https://www.rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/passenger-cars/n-scale-comet-cabs-and-coaches (https://www.rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/passenger-cars/n-scale-comet-cabs-and-coaches)

Jason
Title: Re: Rapido Trains Announcements 6/03/19 Horizon and Comet passenger cars
Post by: bbussey on June 03, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
Video announcement at 12:15 ET today.
Title: Re: Rapido Trains Announcements 6/03/19 Horizon and Comet passenger cars
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on June 03, 2019, 12:16:58 PM
OMG OMG OMG


OMG OMG OMG



(I'm a little excited)
Title: Re: Rapido Trains Announcements 6/03/19 Horizon and Comet passenger cars
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on June 03, 2019, 12:30:58 PM
[attachimg=1]

First order. I'll pick up more when they hit MBK.

Looking to build about 5 trains worth. This order will cover  3.
Title: Re: Rapido Trains Announcements 6/03/19 Horizon and Comet passenger cars
Post by: Point353 on June 03, 2019, 12:36:58 PM
Video announcement at 12:15 ET today.
https://www.rapidotrains.com/content/june-3rd-facebook-live-event (https://www.rapidotrains.com/content/june-3rd-facebook-live-event)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Jbub on June 03, 2019, 12:37:42 PM
 :drool: :drool: :drool: on that ski train  :D
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on June 03, 2019, 12:49:56 PM
Mike, did you get my  - $900 - pre-order?

I was serious about buying entire trains of these.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: GhengisKong on June 03, 2019, 12:55:22 PM
Wew my wallet is safe again.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Mr Z on June 03, 2019, 12:56:49 PM
This is really going to hurt.
I'd like F40's and FL9's in HO
Comets in HO
Horizons in N

By the way will the cab cars have sound, i.e. horns and bells?

Martin Z
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: learmoia on June 03, 2019, 01:02:27 PM
Cool, we can model the first season of the Hawkeye Express train!

(Future seasons used Chicago Metra coaches and a Rock Island theme F40)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Englewood on June 03, 2019, 01:20:59 PM
"When are you guys doing the Denver Ski Train IN N????"  :D

Good news on the Comet cars!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 03, 2019, 01:23:41 PM
Mike, did you get my  - $900 - pre-order?

I was serious about buying entire trains of these.

Sure did!! I'm seeing $929.25
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on June 03, 2019, 01:31:08 PM
Sure did!! I'm seeing $929.25

My wife is going to love me. I guess I can sleep on the couch with arms full of Comets.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 03, 2019, 01:41:49 PM
This is really going to hurt.
I'd like F40's and FL9's in HO
Comets in HO
Horizons in N

By the way will the cab cars have sound, i.e. horns and bells?

Martin Z

@Mr Z , No sound included in the Comet Cab Cars, but our current intention is to make it easy to install a decoder. Whether that is done by a 21-pin/6-pin adapter or easily accessible solder pads hasn't been decided yet. We'll post some updates to the Comet page in a month or so when we have some more information!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: thomasjmdavis on June 03, 2019, 01:55:52 PM
Well, no complaints about this month's newsletter.  Even though these don't fit my layout timeline, good to see more passenger cars in N scale, and this should make a lot of folks happy.  And the method of the announcement is a HUGE improvement over hinting that in the next newsletter there will be a pre-announcement of a coming announcement of an announcement that will set the date of the announcement of......

Do I understand correctly from the newsletter that these are NOT included among the several preannounced announcements of the coming announcement of the greatest announcement of N scale Canadian railroad models ever announced? (Due on June 24)  The photo of the sprue at the end of the newsletter sure looks like underbody parts that I am hopeful will find their way under a model of a black and green car that does fit my timeframe.

Keep up the good work. 

Tom D

Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: pilpro on June 03, 2019, 02:24:59 PM
As an Amtrak California modeler I almost went bezerk with this announcement as I saw this!

https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/05/amtrak-calif-half.png

But I see no listing for a California model on the bottom.

Mike prove i’m wrong!

Paul
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: pilpro on June 03, 2019, 03:16:24 PM
Ok it looks like the Cal cars are in HO.  Why not N?

Paul
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 03, 2019, 03:23:00 PM
Well, no complaints about this month's newsletter.  Even though these don't fit my layout timeline, good to see more passenger cars in N scale, and this should make a lot of folks happy.  And the method of the announcement is a HUGE improvement over hinting that in the next newsletter there will be a pre-announcement of a coming announcement of an announcement that will set the date of the announcement of......

Do I understand correctly from the newsletter that these are NOT included among the several preannounced announcements of the coming announcement of the greatest announcement of N scale Canadian railroad models ever announced? (Due on June 24)  The photo of the sprue at the end of the newsletter sure looks like underbody parts that I am hopeful will find their way under a model of a black and green car that does fit my timeframe.

Keep up the good work. 

Tom D

@thomasjmdavis , correct. The June 24th announcement will be all-Canadian, and it's a big one :D Unfortunately, I can't go into specifics about the era of the products being announced.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 03, 2019, 03:30:15 PM
As an Amtrak California modeler I almost went bezerk with this announcement as I saw this!

https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/05/amtrak-calif-half.png

But I see no listing for a California model on the bottom.

Mike prove i’m wrong!

Paul
@pilpro

Ah crap! I made a big mistake there.......I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no Amtrak California in N scale.

Copy and paste is one heck of a drug I tell ya......

We decided to not go ahead with the Amtrak California dinettes because we don't anticipate much demand for them, but that could change if we get enough people asking for them.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: thomasjmdavis on June 03, 2019, 03:45:40 PM
Quote from: rapidomike
.... The June 24th announcement will be all-Canadian, and it's a big one :D Unfortunately, I can't go into specifics about the era of the products being announced.

@rapidomike -  I cannot imagine what dire fate would await you if you spoiled the big surprise that Jason has been hinting at for a year.  At the very least your Tardis privileges would be revoked and you would not be allowed to play with the Turbo or drive the bus for quite a while....

If I don't get what I want on June 24, you guys will still make a sale, since I will need another bottle of CN#11 Green Proto-Paint to paint whatever I kitbash together in its place.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: pilpro on June 03, 2019, 03:48:43 PM
@pilpro

Ah crap! I made a big mistake there.......I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no Amtrak California in N scale.

Copy and paste is one heck of a drug I tell ya......

We decided to not go ahead with the Amtrak California dinettes because we don't anticipate much demand for them, but that could change if we get enough people asking for them.


No!!!!!!!

Well I hope somehow we can get enough interest for a future release in N

Paul
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ljudice on June 03, 2019, 04:25:42 PM
No EL/NJDOT cars???  Blasphemy!!    :D
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 03, 2019, 05:51:10 PM
Ho-li-fuk!  :D

I wont' even have to custom-paint them for MBTA.    :facepalm: Geez, you guys take all the fun out of modeling!  :D :trollface:

So, the Kawasaki Bi-level cars are next in line, rigth?  :trollface:
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: conrail1973 on June 03, 2019, 07:01:06 PM
This is probably they greatest announcement in N Scale that I've enjoyed since I made the switch from HO Scale in 2007!  I had to preorder 2 NJ Transit coaches and 1 cab car.  In theory, I can run them with my Metro North FL9 and B23-7, but I sure would like to see the NJ Transit F40PH in N Scale.  One can hope  :D  Thank you Rapido Trains!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: garethashenden on June 03, 2019, 08:06:26 PM
Ho-li-fuk!  :D

I wont' even have to custom-paint them for MBTA.    :facepalm: Geez, you guys take all the fun out of modeling!  :D :trollface:

So, the Kawasaki Bi-level cars are next in line, rigth?  :trollface:

You’ll still need to model the Easter egg F10s...
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: EL3632 on June 03, 2019, 08:11:38 PM
This has made my year! NJT uses the rebuilt Comet IIM as a mainstay on my local rail line and I am excited for these models! Will be pre-ordering quite a few from my LHS when I next get there.
This may make me pull the trigger on making a model of my local rail station in some form, most likely in the mid 90s, but the scene changed so little in 20 years I could in theory use it as modern.
Heck, my first ever railfan outing was to specifically catch a Comet IIM when they were rare on my line, now they are on every train...
Any chance we could see a NJT Comet II with the thicker stripe for the M version? Not sure what the exterior differences are between an unrebuilt coach and an M coach, cabcars had cab windows plated over and got converted to coaches.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 03, 2019, 08:19:44 PM
You’ll still need to model the Easter egg F10s...

Don't think that I haven't contemplated it, and the F40PHs too.  :)

(https://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/7/6/5676.1209873883.jpg)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: nuno81291 on June 03, 2019, 08:51:12 PM
be still my beating heart.Yup this one will hurt the wallet for sure. Never thought I’d live to see the day we’d have MBTA flats and screamers.  :ashat:  :ashat:  :ashat:
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Brian M on June 03, 2019, 10:19:01 PM
And here I thought I was being restrained by not ordering any Metro-North FL9's when they were released, as there weren't any proper passenger cars for them to pull (or push, depending on which direction one is traveling).  :facepalm: Oh well, I'll happily make up for that error.

Also, while it's an HO announcement, I am happy to see the modernized FL9's make a comeback. Maybe they'll filter down to N at some point.

-Brian.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: EspeeGoldenState on June 03, 2019, 10:21:30 PM
"When are you guys doing the Denver Ski Train IN N????"  :D

I second this! Though the wife would kill me, but you only live once!

Chris
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: James Costello on June 03, 2019, 10:41:09 PM
@pilpro

Ah crap! I made a big mistake there.......I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but no Amtrak California in N scale.

Copy and paste is one heck of a drug I tell ya......

We decided to not go ahead with the Amtrak California dinettes because we don't anticipate much demand for them, but that could change if we get enough people asking for them.

@rapidomike what's the best email address to use to register our vote for the Am Cal cars and also the Ski Train coaches?

Thanks
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 04, 2019, 12:43:09 AM
@rapidomike what's the best email address to use to register our vote for the Am Cal cars and also the Ski Train coaches?

Thanks
@James Costello , the best way to go about this is the contact form at https://www.rapidotrains.com/contact-us - select "Idea for products" as your reason for emailing. Lots of eyes see those messages, and Roslyn keeps a tally in an excel file about product suggestions!

Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Wolf N Works on June 04, 2019, 07:38:39 AM
Triple... quadruple... oh heck infinity

I second this! Though the wife would kill me, but you only live once!

Chris
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on June 04, 2019, 01:24:28 PM
Though the wife would kill me, but you only live once!
That puts a new twist on the old wish about hoping to live to see a particular model produced.

Reminds me of some lines from the movie The Hunt for Red October:
"Your Russian's going to make it to America, Mr. Ryan. He's going to die within sight of it."
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: nickelplate759 on June 04, 2019, 01:52:48 PM
The web site isn't clear - can we pre-order through our local hobby shop as well?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 04, 2019, 04:22:32 PM
The web site isn't clear - can we pre-order through our local hobby shop as well?

@nickelplate759 of course! As long as your local hobby shop carries our products, you can order there.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: EspeeGoldenState on June 04, 2019, 08:39:36 PM
@rapidomike Any chance the NPCU and/or Cabbage will ever be run in N scale. The Pacific Surfliner that ran the Horizon/Amfleet consist sometimes used them on one end.

Chris
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: mcjaco on June 05, 2019, 11:41:48 AM
@rapidomike Any chance the NPCU and/or Cabbage will ever be run in N scale. The Pacific Surfliner that ran the Horizon/Amfleet consist sometimes used them on one end.

Chris

As well as the Chicago/Milwaukee Hiawatha.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: garethashenden on June 05, 2019, 11:55:55 AM
I may have missed this, but when are these expected?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: basementcalling on June 05, 2019, 02:57:50 PM
Not seeing a link for the N scale version of the Ski Train, loco or cars. Am I just blind?

Congrats on what looks to be a much anticipated set of releases. @rapidomike
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Mark5 on June 05, 2019, 03:15:31 PM
Not seeing a link for the N scale version of the Ski Train, loco or cars. Am I just blind?

The Ski Train is HO only (alas)

https://www.rapidotrains.com/products/ho-scale/passenger-cars/ho-scale-denver-rio-grande-ski-train
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 05, 2019, 04:27:58 PM
Not seeing a link for the N scale version of the Ski Train, loco or cars. Am I just blind?

Congrats on what looks to be a much anticipated set of releases.

@basementcalling , just HO unfortunately. There is a chance that we will do it in the future, but we don't have any concrete plans at the moment.

Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: basementcalling on June 05, 2019, 04:49:20 PM
@basementcalling , just HO unfortunately. There is a chance that we will do it in the future, but we don't have any concrete plans at the moment.

Why I asked. I was confused by the pictures in the lead post as everything else is HO and N. Damn HO guys get all the hot ski bunnies. :)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Ngineer on June 05, 2019, 06:19:25 PM
Can you PLEASE make the Northern Pacific 10000-series Wood Boxcar in N-Scale?

 :)

Can you please explain the difference between NARROW and WIDE? Is it a door thing?

   Javier
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidotrains on June 05, 2019, 06:24:55 PM
@basementcalling , just HO unfortunately. There is a chance that we will do it in the future, but we don't have any concrete plans at the moment.

Slim chance, unfortunately... The Ski Train is based on the Tempo, and it is such a region-specific train that I doubt we would sell enough in N to cover the costs. We have a lot of other low-hanging N scale fruit to pick.

I'm glad that the announcements are good news for many of you, and I'm also glad that Mike is participating on the forum! I've been offline for the last few days with this big product launch and my email inbox has exploded.

-Jason
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: OldEastRR on June 05, 2019, 07:02:15 PM
I guess this means there'll be no more NH streamlined cars   --- well, it was great while it lasted!!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: brill27mcb on June 05, 2019, 07:13:37 PM
I am really glad to see these! I was the project manager for the NJDOT/NJT Comet II fleet purchase. The name "Comet" was not a nickname, it was an official NJT name initiated by a co-worker and me. We were tired of referring to "the E-L push-pulls" and wanted a class name comparable to the "Arrow" MU's -- with a different first letter (so we could use shorthand A-III, C-II, etc. internally and in computer systems) and preferably about 5 letters long. "Comet" was a natural choice, since the original purchase was for the former CNJ main line (Raritan Valley Line), home of the famed "Jersey Comet." We agreed on it and started a deliberate campaign of using the name in memos, phone conversations and so on, and it stuck.

To model the earlier Pullman-built E-L push-pulls, you would need lower control cab end windows and lower passenger doors, that on the models would fortunately obscure the fact that the later designs have an added step in the stairwells to make the riser heights more manageable.

Rich K.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on June 05, 2019, 08:12:19 PM
I am really glad to see these! I was the project manager for the NJDOT/NJT Comet II fleet purchase. The name "Comet" was not a nickname, it was an official NJT name initiated by a co-worker and me. We were tired of referring to "the E-L push-pulls" and wanted a class name comparable to the "Arrow" MU's -- with a different first letter (so we could use shorthand A-III, C-II, etc. internally and in computer systems) and preferably about 5 letters long. "Comet" was a natural choice, since the original purchase was for the former CNJ main line (Raritan Valley Line), home of the famed "Jersey Comet." We agreed on it and started a deliberate campaign of using the name in memos, phone conversations and so on, and it stuck.

To model the earlier Pullman-built E-L push-pulls, you would need lower control cab end windows and lower passenger doors, that on the models would fortunately obscure the fact that the later designs have an added step in the stairwells to make the riser heights more manageable.

Rich K.

Thanks for the history Rich. I have been campaigning to get these for years.

To Rapido: which MBTA cars are you doing? The original PS batch or the Bombardier clones? I hope these will be in the thin yellow end stripe scheme.... This covers a lot longer era than the fat end stripes (they were repainted in the early 80's to the current scheme).

If you need any close up details, I can take photos for you.

BTW, the only difference between the PS and Bombardier versions is the B's had jack rings on the roof ends. A very easy detail to add. I think the original PS had slightly different seat material as well.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Wolf N Works on June 06, 2019, 05:15:28 AM
Here we go again. It will sell in HO but not N.  Every time something in DRGW or SP has been done in N it is almost sold out overnight but sure it will not have enough in N to be produced. Oh well I can only hope these will be done in N scale by someone.

Slim chance, unfortunately... The Ski Train is based on the Tempo, and it is such a region-specific train that I doubt we would sell enough in N to cover the costs. We have a lot of other low-hanging N scale fruit to pick.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidotrains on June 06, 2019, 01:03:18 PM
I guess this means there'll be no more NH streamlined cars   --- well, it was great while it lasted!!

Unless you know something that I don't, this is not our last-ever product announcement.  ;)

-Jason


Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 06, 2019, 01:08:02 PM
Thanks for the history Rich. I have been campaigning to get these for years.

To Rapido: which MBTA cars are you doing? The original PS batch or the Bombardier clones? I hope these will be in the thin yellow end stripe scheme.... This covers a lot longer era than the fat end stripes (they were repainted in the early 80's to the current scheme).

If you need any close up details, I can take photos for you.

BTW, the only difference between the PS and Bombardier versions is the B's had jack rings on the roof ends. A very easy detail to add. I think the original PS had slightly different seat material as well.

@daniel_leavitt2000 Yes - We're doing the Bombardier with the thin yellow end stripe. As for photos, if you have some, please send them! Email them to rapido3@rapidotrains.com
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Ed Kapuscinski on June 06, 2019, 02:21:42 PM
I am really glad to see these! I was the project manager for the NJDOT/NJT Comet II fleet purchase. The name "Comet" was not a nickname, it was an official NJT name initiated by a co-worker and me. We were tired of referring to "the E-L push-pulls" and wanted a class name comparable to the "Arrow" MU's -- with a different first letter (so we could use shorthand A-III, C-II, etc. internally and in computer systems) and preferably about 5 letters long. "Comet" was a natural choice, since the original purchase was for the former CNJ main line (Raritan Valley Line), home of the famed "Jersey Comet." We agreed on it and started a deliberate campaign of using the name in memos, phone conversations and so on, and it stuck.

To model the earlier Pullman-built E-L push-pulls, you would need lower control cab end windows and lower passenger doors, that on the models would fortunately obscure the fact that the later designs have an added step in the stairwells to make the riser heights more manageable.

Rich K.

Whoa! No way! I love the people you meet here.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 06, 2019, 02:21:54 PM
I COME BEARING GOOD NEWS!!  :D

N Scale Amtrak California Horizon Dinettes are now a go!!!

Website should be updated by end of day friday.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 06, 2019, 03:23:32 PM
Can you PLEASE make the Northern Pacific 10000-series Wood Boxcar in N-Scale?

 :)

Can you please explain the difference between NARROW and WIDE? Is it a door thing?

   Javier

@Ngineer , narrow and wide refers to the blue and red stripes. We originally called them Phase 3 Early and Phase 3 late but Amtrak asked us to change our wording.

Narrow was the early Phase 3 scheme
(https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/06/Horizon-Amtk3-Dinette_1.jpg?width=2018&height=434&slideshow=true&slideshowAuto=false&slideshowSpeed=2000&transition=elastic&speed=350)

And wide is the later phase 3 scheme
(https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/06/Horizon-Amtk3L-Coach_4.jpg?width=2018&height=434&slideshow=true&slideshowAuto=false&slideshowSpeed=2000&transition=elastic&speed=350)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Jbub on June 06, 2019, 04:02:47 PM
I COME BEARING GOOD NEWS!!  :D

N Scale Amtrak California Horizon Dinettes are now a go!!!

Website should be updated by end of day friday.
Better news would be the ski train in n but that would mean an f40ph in n scale also. I would take an fl9 as a foob though. Just sayin'
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: pilpro on June 06, 2019, 04:13:08 PM
I COME BEARING GOOD NEWS!!  :D

N Scale Amtrak California Horizon Dinettes are now a go!!!

Website should be updated by end of day friday.

Wow that is so fantastic Mike!  I love that Rapido engages and reacts!


Paul
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: pilpro on June 06, 2019, 04:22:10 PM
Now maybe some Am Cal Comet coaches?

Paul
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on June 06, 2019, 05:24:28 PM
Better news would be the ski train in n but that would mean an f40ph in n scale also.
Kato can supply the F40PH:
http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1510 (http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1510)
http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1511 (http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1511)

(http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/images/F40PH-Ski-283.jpg)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Jbub on June 06, 2019, 05:28:31 PM
Kato can supply the F40PH:
http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1510 (http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1510)
http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1511 (http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1511)

(http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/images/F40PH-Ski-283.jpg)
Would rather have a rapido with sound for an extra 60 bucks.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on June 06, 2019, 09:30:16 PM
I'm starting to think we should revisit out trepidation on Rapido making the F40PH... Kato seems uninterested in anything not Amtrak and Metra. Nor do they seem motivated to make a non dynamic brake version.

If Rapido made the F40, they could easily have commuter and Amtrak train sets.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: wcfn100 on June 06, 2019, 11:15:17 PM
I'm starting to think we should revisit out trepidation on Rapido making the F40PH... Kato seems uninterested in anything not Amtrak and Metra.

And Kato won't make a phase 1 body style.

Jason
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 07, 2019, 01:58:17 PM
@Ngineer , narrow and wide refers to the blue and red stripes. We originally called them Phase 3 Early and Phase 3 late but Amtrak asked us to change our wording.

Narrow was the early Phase 3 scheme
(https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/06/Horizon-Amtk3-Dinette_1.jpg?width=200)

And wide is the later phase 3 scheme
(https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/2019/06/Horizon-Amtk3L-Coach_4.jpg?width=200)

So Amtrak is not on-board with the "Phase" naming modelers came up with for the various paint scheme versions?  They dislike it enough to complain about it?  :|

What is the official Amtrak paint scheme naming scheme (from the broken arrow to the today's scheme)?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Ed Kapuscinski on June 07, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
What is the official Amtrak paint scheme naming scheme (from the broken arrow to the today's scheme)?

I thought it was "pointless arrow".
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 07, 2019, 02:22:22 PM
The subject discussion here made me dig up some older photos of these cars I had in my collection.  This in turn reminded me of the more care-free times we had back before 9-11.  So, allow me a little OT diversion.

Back in the '80s, when I just got into photographing trains, things were much more relaxed and photographer-friendly.  Too bad that these freedoms were curtailed due to the changes brought on by radicalized countries and individulals.  :RUEffinKiddingMe:

In the late '80s I lived just couple of miles from (and passed by almost every day) the Boston Southampton Street Amtrak Maintenance Facility.  Accessing it  for photography was easy those days. I would simply drive up there, park in the employee parking lot, take my trusty Nikon SLR and find the nearest Amtrak employee.  I would explain that I like to take some  photos of the trains, that I know how to properly behave on active railroad facilities, and they would simply let me loose on the property. IIRC, they even gave me a hardhat to wear (the rules).   This is unimaginable nowadays.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/11/2700-070619013148-111632484.jpeg)
So this is the start of my journey at the facility in 1989.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/11/2700-070619013147-111622211.jpeg)
Without any clue that 30 years later I would be able to buy a model of them in N scale, I just happened to spot a rake of freshly delivered Horizon cars!  Diaphragms are still wrapped.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/11/2700-070619013146-11161488.jpeg)
It is a DO NOT HUMP placard pasted in the center of the car.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/11/2700-070619013300-11164568.jpeg)
And of course some Comet cars were also spotted in the yard.

Can't  believe that it was 30 years ago!

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/11/2700-070619013146-111601828.jpeg)
Also, on another occasion, I was lucky enough to participate in a tour of the facility. I was able to take lots of photos of things that are not normally photographed (like the Amfleet truck details viewed from below, or a wheel turning lathe.  This is the overall view of the facility.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 07, 2019, 02:23:06 PM
I thought it was "pointless arrow".

I know that, but it is pointless to argue this  point.   :D
Just having some fun . . .
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on June 07, 2019, 03:17:56 PM
Every reference to "Comet" cars has me thinking of this:

(https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal.s3.amazonaws.com/public/E5GQDZNSTNC65PLQTFZG67QFK4.jpg)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Ed Kapuscinski on June 07, 2019, 03:20:54 PM
Every reference to "Comet" cars has me thinking of this:

(https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal.s3.amazonaws.com/public/E5GQDZNSTNC65PLQTFZG67QFK4.jpg)

You know, I'm actually kinda amazed that Micro-Trains hasn't done that yet.

If BLI does a heavy pacific it'd be a no-brainer money maker.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: basementcalling on June 07, 2019, 03:27:11 PM
>>>>

Can't  believe that it was 30 years ago!

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/11/2700-070619013146-111601828.jpeg)



Damn, how did you get the camera inside @mark dance 's engine house on the C & R?

 :ashat:
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 07, 2019, 04:43:42 PM
Damn, how did you get the camera inside @mark dance 's engine house on the C & R?

 :ashat:

LOL!  You know, I like to mess around with nanoelectronic devices.   :)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Ngineer on June 07, 2019, 04:59:49 PM
@Ngineer , narrow and wide refers to the blue and red stripes. We originally called them Phase 3 Early and Phase 3 late but Amtrak asked us to change our wording.

@rapidomike

Thank you for your explanation.

Were the dinettes used together with Amfleet cars? That would give me a reason to buy them.

   Javier
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: nickelplate759 on June 07, 2019, 06:02:26 PM
@rapidomike

Thank you for your explanation.

Were the dinettes used together with Amfleet cars? That would give me a reason to buy them.

   Javier

Yes, and they still are. 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Mark5 on June 08, 2019, 10:32:48 AM
You know, I'm actually kinda amazed that Micro-Trains hasn't done that yet.

At a minimum, will need a standard length combine (coaches are single window or double?)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 11, 2019, 03:01:58 PM
So Amtrak is not on-board with the "Phase" naming modelers came up with for the various paint scheme versions?  They dislike it enough to complain about it?  :|

What is the official Amtrak paint scheme naming scheme (from the broken arrow to the today's scheme)?

@peteski , The big one was actually Phase 4b, which Amtrak calls phase 6.

Information below is to the best of my knowledge - keep in mind that I'm a Canuck, so I might have made an error here!

California and Cascades stand on their own and are not grouped in with any of the phases.


Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 11, 2019, 03:31:47 PM
@peteski , The big one was actually Phase 4b, which Amtrak calls phase 6.

Information below is to the best of my knowledge - keep in mind that I'm a Canuck, so I might have made an error here!
  • Phase I would be the broken arrow, blue and red stripe. Metroliners and RDCs (and others) had a thin white stripe outside of the blue and red stripe, while the F units had no white stripe.
  • Phase II is basically the same but without the arrow. Slight changes to the red colour (I think? Might just be how it appears in various photos).
  • Phase III is the three stripe variant. On later Phase IIIs, the blue and red stripes are wider than the middle white stripe.
  • Phase IV is very similar to what we have now, Phase VI. Phase IV the Amtrak wordmark on sides. Dark purple-ish blue with two red and two white stripes.
  • Phase V was initially introduced with the Acela Express, and was also used on the P42, Sprinters and Chargers. The Chargers have a red stripe between the blue and grey colours. The P42, Acela, etc only have the red stripe along the bottom of the locomotive body. The sprinters are grouped in with phase V but had a modified promotional scheme. The Acela trainsets fall into Phase V, but have no blue stripe. I think the "Capstone" scheme used on the Amfleet Is are also included in Phase V, but I might be wrong on that one. I'm guessing that the Amtrak Midwest scheme on the Chargers also fall into Phase V, but not totally sure.
  • Phase VI - very similar to Phase IV, but the Amtrak wordmark was replaced with the current day logo. The blue is also a bit more blue and less purple-y than the Phase IV.

California and Cascades stand on their own and are not grouped in with any of the phases.

Mike, thanks for taking the time for wiring down this info - I appreciate it. I was already familiar with the Amtrak livery  Phases. Similar info is accessible on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_paint_schemes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_paint_schemes) (good reference).

Now I understand  why Amtrak was not thrilled with your "early/late" nomenclature (and not upset with using Phases nomenclature in general). But Phase III scheme does have couple of variations, so  that should be called out.
In majority of examples of Phase III all 3 stripes are even width. One exception are the Amfleet cars where the white stripe appears to be the same width as in all the other Phase III cars and locos, but the red and blue stripes are extra wide, making the 3-stripe set wider than the standard Phase III stripe set.  So I think you were correct to call that fact out.  While I have no first hand knowledge about the reason for wide Phase III stripes, I suspect that the Horizon cars were originally painted with the narrow Phase III stripes, but then the wide Phase III stripes were used to match the stripes on Amfleets.  Then there is an oddball Phase III variation on the Early P42 locos. They seem to be in between Phase II and Phase III "wide".

Here is a good example of even and wide Phase III.  The loco in the foreground has even Phase III stripes and the Afleet in the background has wide red/blue stripes.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/AMTK_P30CH_700_built_Aug._1975_at_Autotrain_facility_Lorton%2C_VA_on_November_13%2C_1987_%2822849741311%29.jpg/800px-AMTK_P30CH_700_built_Aug._1975_at_Autotrain_facility_Lorton%2C_VA_on_November_13%2C_1987_%2822849741311%29.jpg)

BTW, the "broken arrow" was a joke.  It is called "pointless arrow".  :)


Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: rapidomike on June 11, 2019, 05:26:09 PM
While I have no first hand knowledge about the reason for wide Phase III stripes, I suspect that the Horizon cars were originally painted with the narrow Phase III stripes, but then the wide Phase III stripes were used to match the stripes on Amfleets.

That makes sense, making them match the Amfleets. I was just chatting with my co-worker across the hall, and he heard from a source that the change was made mid-production after a number of cars had already been delivered. I had assumed that the change happened sometime after they all entered service, but I was wrong (assuming the friend of a friend is correct)!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Ngineer on June 13, 2019, 11:19:05 AM
That makes sense, making them match the Amfleets. I was just chatting with my co-worker across the hall, and he heard from a source that the change was made mid-production after a number of cars had already been delivered. I had assumed that the change happened sometime after they all entered service,

Did Amtrak repaint them quickly? Or did Amtrak keep both versions, the one with the broader and the one with the narrower stripes?

   Javier
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on June 14, 2019, 07:36:24 PM
Both the Ski Train and the Amtrak California would sell in N.  So far as I've noticed, everything Rapido does in N sells out.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 14, 2019, 07:48:20 PM
Both the Ski Train and the Amtrak California would sell in N.  So far as I've noticed, everything Rapido does in N sells out.

Maybe because Rapido does careful  market research, and they only produce models they think will sell well.  :trollface:  :D
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on June 14, 2019, 08:28:00 PM
So far as I've noticed, everything Rapido does in N sells out.
That usually happens when you closely match production quantities to pre-order quantities.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on June 14, 2019, 09:31:19 PM
Wait...
These are ... these? (https://www.railpictures.net/photo/681802/) 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: nickelplate759 on June 14, 2019, 10:41:37 PM
Yes!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on June 14, 2019, 11:11:05 PM
Yeah, I'll be in for some phase III then, I guess.  Note that the train in the photo has a mix of the narrow and wide Phase III scheme.  Now to also land one of the OOP atlas Pepsi-Can B32-8s on eBay... :facepalm:

But now to the Amtrak California scheme...
@rapidomike
While these may be too new for me (although on the other hand I need something to run with my Athearn Amtrak California F59PHI), I'm not seeing how it makes sense to offer all three Horizon dinettes and none of the ex-NJT Comet coaches.  A trainset would have one dinette and a bunch of coaches.  Are the coaches just, er, still in the works?   :D
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: EL3632 on June 16, 2019, 08:16:17 PM
But now to the Amtrak California scheme...
...I'm not seeing how it makes sense to offer all three Horizon dinettes and none of the ex-NJT Comet coaches.  A trainset would have one dinette and a bunch of coaches.  Are the coaches just, er, still in the works?   :D

The Amtrak California Comets are not Comet II's, they are called the Comet IB (1B) on NJT, and were rebuilt from Arrow I & II EMU units. The big difference on the Comet IB is the stainless steel ribbed side, typical of the Arrows, but not any other NJT Comet.
The NJT Comets were all styled after the original version, called the EL Push-Pulls before the Comet II arrived, they later got renamed to Comet I when the Comet II's entered service. The Comet I differs from the Comet II by having a different door height, different cabcar cab window location, and later after ditch lights were installed, having them installed under the carbody, versus the Comet II which had them mounted around midway up the carbody.
The Comet II's were also later rebuilt, cabcars as trailer coaches as well as existing trailer coach upgrades, and are currently called Comet IIM.
Here are examples (trailers only):
Comet I: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=304357
Comet IB: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=213347
Comet II: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4590027
Comet IIM: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086181
Rapido's NJT Comet II's are the originals and good for the 80s to the early 2000s.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on June 17, 2019, 11:54:04 PM
The Amtrak California Comets are not Comet II's, they are called the Comet IB (1B) on NJT, and were rebuilt from Arrow I & II EMU units. The big difference on the Comet IB is the stainless steel ribbed side, typical of the Arrows, but not any other NJT Comet.
The NJT Comets were all styled after the original version, called the EL Push-Pulls before the Comet II arrived, they later got renamed to Comet I when the Comet II's entered service. The Comet I differs from the Comet II by having a different door height, different cabcar cab window location, and later after ditch lights were installed, having them installed under the carbody, versus the Comet II which had them mounted around midway up the carbody.
The Comet II's were also later rebuilt, cabcars as trailer coaches as well as existing trailer coach upgrades, and are currently called Comet IIM.
Here are examples (trailers only):
Comet I: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=304357
Comet IB: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=213347
Comet II: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4590027
Comet IIM: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086181
Rapido's NJT Comet II's are the originals and good for the 80s to the early 2000s.

I see.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 18, 2019, 12:30:28 AM
The Amtrak California Comets are not Comet II's, they are called the Comet IB (1B) on NJT, and were rebuilt from Arrow I & II EMU units. The big difference on the Comet IB is the stainless steel ribbed side, typical of the Arrows, but not any other NJT Comet.
The NJT Comets were all styled after the original version, called the EL Push-Pulls before the Comet II arrived, they later got renamed to Comet I when the Comet II's entered service. The Comet I differs from the Comet II by having a different door height, different cabcar cab window location, and later after ditch lights were installed, having them installed under the carbody, versus the Comet II which had them mounted around midway up the carbody.
The Comet II's were also later rebuilt, cabcars as trailer coaches as well as existing trailer coach upgrades, and are currently called Comet IIM.
Here are examples (trailers only):
Comet I: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=304357
Comet IB: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=213347
Comet II: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4590027
Comet IIM: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1086181
Rapido's NJT Comet II's are the originals and good for the 80s to the early 2000s.

So you are saying that the car in both photos is the same car?

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on June 18, 2019, 09:07:50 AM
So you are saying that the car in both photos is the same car?

No, he isn't saying that at all.

The first pic shows Horizon cars.  Some Horizon dinettes (like rear car of train) are now in Amtrak California colors.  Rapido has decided to do those cars since they were already doing them in other schemes.

The second pic is a type of Comet coach that Rapido is not doing, some of which were owned by NJT and are now owned by California.   A plausible present day California trainset would include a bunch of these cars plus a Horizon dinette,  but I did not realize that these aren't the Comets that Rapido is tooling.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 18, 2019, 03:30:30 PM
No, he isn't saying that at all.

The first pic shows Horizon cars.  Some Horizon dinettes (like rear car of train) are now in Amtrak California colors.  Rapido has decided to do those cars since they were already doing them in other schemes.

The second pic is a type of Comet coach that Rapido is not doing, some of which were owned by NJT and are now owned by California.   A plausible present day California trainset would include a bunch of these cars plus a Horizon dinette,  but I did not realize that these aren't the Comets that Rapido is tooling.

You got excited that the Comets Rapido is producing look like they could be used as the Amtrak Californai cars.   He disagreed, and stated: "The Amtrak California Comets are not Comet II's, they are called the Comet IB (1B) on NJT, and were rebuilt from Arrow I & II EMU units. The big difference on the Comet IB is the stainless steel ribbed side, typical of the Arrows, but not any other NJT Comet. "

He then provided photo links to all various "flavors" of Comets.  So  I took your photo of the Amtrak California Comets and compared to the Comet IB photo he linked to.  That is why I'm confused.  If you click on the Comet IB in his post, it loins ot that fluted stainless steel car with oval windows.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: EL3632 on June 18, 2019, 05:18:36 PM
The Amtrak California Dining car is a Horizon Dinette, as is prototypical for what Rapido is making. The coaches are all Comet IB, which Rapido is not making. Rapido is only making the Horizon Dinette car and not the Comet IB coaches.
The first photo @peteski posted has Amtrak Phase III Horizons in it. At the time that photo was taken, the Comet IB cars were still in service with NJT and were not retired for some time (want to say the early to mid 2000's if memory serves). At that time most Horizon cars were repainted to either Amtrak Phase IV or IVb (V).
Here is a side by side photo of the Horizon Dinette with the Comet IB coaches (in AmCal livery): http://subwaynut.com/california/amtrak/oaklandjlq/oaklandjlq153.jpg
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 18, 2019, 05:41:34 PM
The Amtrak California Dining car is a Horizon Dinette, as is prototypical for what Rapido is making. The coaches are all Comet IB, which Rapido is not making. Rapido is only making the Horizon Dinette car and not the Comet IB coaches.
The first photo @peteski posted has Amtrak Phase III Horizons in it. At the time that photo was taken, the Comet IB cars were still in service with NJT and were not retired for some time (want to say the early to mid 2000's if memory serves). At that time most Horizon cars were repainted to either Amtrak Phase IV or IVb (V).
Here is a side by side photo of the Horizon Dinette with the Comet IB coaches (in AmCal livery): http://subwaynut.com/california/amtrak/oaklandjlq/oaklandjlq153.jpg

OK, thanks. I was confused because it seemed that your original reply was to jagged ben posting this photo (and to the commentary that followed):
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47243.0;attach=28838;image)

So, Which cars are in the above photo (in Amtrak Ph III paint)?  Is is even Amtrak California, or some other train?  It seems that I might have misunderstood the entire discussion.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: EL3632 on June 18, 2019, 06:37:33 PM
@peteski
Those are Horizon Coaches.
The Amtrak California Dinettes were a relatively recent thing, being done to match the Comet IB delivery in 2013.
Before the F59PHi & the California Cars were delivered in 1994 there was no equipment specifically lettered for Amtrak California. The equipment you see in the photo is simply Amtrak lettered equipment being used on a Amtrak California service.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on June 18, 2019, 10:32:23 PM
OK, thanks. I was confused because it seemed that your original reply was to jagged ben posting this photo (and to the commentary that followed):
(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47243.0;attach=28838;image)

So, Which cars are in the above photo (in Amtrak Ph III paint)?  Is is even Amtrak California, or some other train?  It seems that I might have misunderstood the entire discussion.  :facepalm:

Yes, you misunderstood everything.   :lol:  The photo above has (almost) no relevance to the Amtrak California paint scheme and none to the discussion of Comets.

To be fair, I both completely switched gears mid post ("But now to the Amtrak California scheme...")  and also let my own lack of knowledge about the Comets muddy the waters.  Also, although I was talking about the same/similar prototype train service throughout (Capitols and San Joaquins), it is more or less a total coincidence that the equipment represented by Rapido's new offerings has relevance to that service in two completely separate eras (pre 1996 and post 2013). 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 18, 2019, 10:34:48 PM
Phew - thanks guys!
I should have just stayed out of the conversation, but I was curious as to why things didn't add up (to me).
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Ed Kapuscinski on June 19, 2019, 09:48:22 AM
To be fair,

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InfatuatedDetailedIvorygull-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 21, 2019, 01:30:20 AM
I looked at the Rapido ad in the N-Scale Magazine and while they mentioned Boston MBTA as one of the roadnames, they only mentioned the GSI G70 (outside bearing) trucks.  But MBTA Comet cars have inside-bearing trucks.  Does that mean that Rapido did not tool up those trucks?  :x

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/11/2700-210619012706-113522297.jpeg)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on June 21, 2019, 02:29:46 AM
I looked at the Rapido ad in the N-Scale Magazine and while they mentioned Boston MBTA as one of the roadnames, they only mentioned the GSI G70 (outside bearing) trucks.  But MBTA Comet cars have inside-bearing trucks.  Does that mean that Rapido did not tool up those trucks?  :x

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/11/2700-210619012706-113522297.jpeg)

As per announcement:
https://www.rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/passenger-cars/n-scale-comet-cabs-and-coaches

I hope they make them available separately so I can change out the ones on my Bachmann Amfleet cars. Also for the MBB cars.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on June 21, 2019, 02:04:22 PM
As per announcement:
https://www.rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/passenger-cars/n-scale-comet-cabs-and-coaches

I hope they make them available separately so I can change out the ones on my Bachmann Amfleet cars. Also for the MBB cars.

Oh good! The ad on the back cover of N-Scale Magazine does not mention those trucks. I guess it is mainly for the Horizon cars.

Daniel, wouldn't the Kato's Amfleet trucks be better for retrofitting the Bachmann Amfleet cars?  The trucks used on Comets seem slightly different.  Kato sells the Amfleet trucks on their parts website, and I don't  think anybody (including home-brewed trucks) will come out with inside-bearing truck which rolls much better than Kato.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on November 09, 2019, 12:56:13 PM
When do pre-orders close for these (N Scale) and when is the ETA for delivery??? I looked through the thread...sorry if I missed it being mentioned...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: nscalbitz on November 09, 2019, 03:52:36 PM
hi
if these from their recent email:

Remember the order deadline - October 31st! We will keep the online order desk open until we start production, which will be as soon as the final tooling revisions are completed.

Click here for more information on the original VIA F40PH-2D (1986-2012)
Click here for the Rebuilt VIA F40PH-2D (2010-present)
https://rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/  for the LRC coaches and business class cars.

Get their info direct - Not sure any more of their 'register' addy, but sign up via rapido3@rapidotrains.com may help.
regards davew
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on August 06, 2020, 02:39:32 PM
Any updates on those?  I looked at Rapido's website and several recent newsletters posted there - I found no current info.  Are we still few years away from these?

I'm really curious to see their internal-bearing truck design.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: thomasjmdavis on August 06, 2020, 08:25:36 PM
Looks like you can still pre-order, if you are so inclined....
https://rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/passenger-cars/n-scale-comet-cabs-and-coaches
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on August 06, 2020, 08:48:00 PM
Looks like you can still pre-order, if you are so inclined....
https://rapidotrains.com/products/n-scale/passenger-cars/n-scale-comet-cabs-and-coaches

I have already done that (months ago). I was just wondering if their release is on the horizon.  :D
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on August 07, 2020, 06:36:36 AM
I think they have the hard tooling done. But would like official confirmation from Rapido.

I certainly have a stake in this as I ordered 4 complete 5 car trains.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 01, 2021, 04:56:50 PM
For those with these on pre-order, just thought I'd point out I got my pre-order billing notification from Rapido today, so they're soon to arrive.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 01, 2021, 06:57:57 PM
God help me.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 01, 2021, 07:19:30 PM
God help me.

(Attachment Link)

I spent that on The Canadian (and I don't even model Canada...). I probably should have picked up more than I did though, for Amtrak Midwest and whatnot.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: dem34 on October 01, 2021, 07:35:21 PM
Ah you got the good new too.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: learmoia on October 01, 2021, 07:55:54 PM
I wonder if the wheels will be in gauge?

:)

~Ian
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: sirenwerks on October 02, 2021, 05:07:16 AM
Now all I need is for Amtrak to put a Cascades paint scheme on its Horizon cars in the Paciific NW and for the matching Bachmann SC44 to come down to a reasonable price.


As for new ideas from US modelers?  A late EB and late NCL (heck, I'd settle for a late International, or even a Seattle to Portland pool train, at this point); an SDP40; a better SD45; a 6K and 8K ACF type 27 insulated tank (see BLI's HO car); a Gunderson 7466; a PS1 combination door 40-footer; an early non-whale belly, large capacity LPG tank car (like Athearn's car, but earlier); or Great Northern 30' Plywood-side caboose (and the tongue-and-groove version too).  More PC&F box car varieties (but that fit pre-1975 era) are always welcome too.  Or how about all of those?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: dem34 on October 02, 2021, 10:27:25 AM
I wonder if the wheels will be in gauge?

:)

~Ian

F*ck I hope.


As for new ideas from US modelers?  A late EB and late NCL (heck, I'd settle for a late International, or even a Seattle to Portland pool train, at this point); an SDP40; a better SD45; a 6K and 8K ACF type 27 insulated tank (see BLI's HO car); a Gunderson 7466; a PS1 combination door 40-footer; or an early non-whale belly, large capacity LPG tank car (like Athearn's car, but earlier).  More PC&F box car varieties (but that fit pre-1975 era) are always welcome too.  Or how about all of those?

Tagging onto this, I would really, really like a good modern model of a Gunderson Twinstack. The deluxe ones are okay but are unobtanioum on top of being featherweights.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 04, 2021, 06:39:05 AM
Hm... Well the price of the Comets shot up a bit. The total for my trains is now $1037. So the price isn't set when I pre-ordered it?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on October 04, 2021, 06:21:37 PM
Hm... Well the price of the Comets shot up a bit. The total for my trains is now $1037. So the price isn't set when I pre-ordered it?

Exchange rate maybe?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 04, 2021, 07:12:54 PM
Exchange rate maybe?

Probably the insantly high container shipping charges.

I reserved mine at Trainworld. I wonder if they will honor the pre-order prices?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 04, 2021, 07:37:10 PM
I got an email back and the price increase was due to licensing feeds associated with MBTA. I'm unsure if this is the same with other schemes. Because I reserved the cars at the original announcement, they adjusted it back to $944.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: learmoia on October 04, 2021, 09:48:16 PM
$7.50/car for licensing fees?.. that seems excessive..

~Ian
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on October 05, 2021, 11:56:48 PM
Anybody got their hands on these yet?  How concerned should I be about whether HogTrainz has kept track of my pre-order?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 06, 2021, 12:04:18 AM
Anybody got their hands on these yet?  How concerned should I be about whether HogTrainz has kept track of my pre-order?

They have kept and fulfilled my reservations for several items (like MTL TBOX sets).  Did you reserved through their online ordering system?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 06, 2021, 02:20:04 AM
Mine are going out from Rapido Monday. I don't think they hit distributers yet.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ncbqguy on October 07, 2021, 05:52:21 PM
$7.50/car for licensing fees?.. that seems excessive..

~Ian

Brilliant people running public transport agencies....
....pay advertising/marketing/design firms for coming up with logos and paint schemes and allow them to retain the licensing!
Remember “back in the day” when railroads would pay part of the cost of tooling for Lionel and American Flyer to make models of their equipment?
Charlie Vlk
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on October 07, 2021, 06:12:33 PM
Brilliant people running public transport agencies....
....pay advertising/marketing/design firms for coming up with logos and paint schemes and allow them to retain the licensing!
Remember “back in the day” when railroads would pay part of the cost of tooling for Lionel and American Flyer to make models of their equipment?
Charlie Vlk
That was before the day that every department had to be a "profit center".
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 07, 2021, 07:15:38 PM
MBTA (the "T") is not in very good financial shape.  According to what  I hear in the local news, they are also one of the most neglected commuter systems in the country.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 13, 2021, 03:13:05 PM
Anyone get their Horizons or Comets yet?  Supposedly they are out in the wild.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on October 13, 2021, 06:05:13 PM
I actually wonder if any have made it across the border from Canada yet.  A Canadian seller posted some to ebay but I've not seen any US sellers announce arrival or availability.   I'm trying to atay patient.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 13, 2021, 06:28:42 PM
I ordered some directly from Rapido and some from a retailer, haven't seen any yet. No shipping info from Rapido yet, order says it's being packed (but that isn't unusual for orders direct from them in my experience). The order from a retailer hasn't been billed yet, so they're probably a ways out yet.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 18, 2021, 11:33:21 AM
MBTA Cab Cars seem to be unobtainium. I should have pre-ordered sooner...
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: conrail1973 on October 18, 2021, 12:30:24 PM
I was checking usps.com, and it indicated that I have a package coming from Toronto which is assume is from Rapido.  It's already cleared the Chicago Intl. Distribution Center and now is in the Chicago Distribution Center.  Hopefully my Comet Cars will be coming this week!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 18, 2021, 12:47:53 PM
Mine has been in "Packing Order" mode for two weeks. The wait is killing me.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 18, 2021, 12:49:25 PM
I was checking usps.com, and it indicated that I have a package coming from Toronto which is assume is from Rapido.  It's already cleared the Chicago Intl. Distribution Center and now is in the Chicago Distribution Center.  Hopefully my Comet Cars will be coming this week!

Likewise, mine are actually at the local post office at my PO Box, but I don't get home from vacation until tomorrow. I'll try to grab them ASAP and see how they look.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on October 18, 2021, 03:13:24 PM
MBTA Cab Cars seem to be unobtainium. I should have pre-ordered sooner...
Some dealers still seem to be taking pre-orders.
For example: https://www.hogtrainz.com/NRAPIDOCOMET.htm (https://www.hogtrainz.com/NRAPIDOCOMET.htm)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 18, 2021, 05:00:17 PM
I was checking usps.com, and it indicated that I have a package coming from Toronto which is assume is from Rapido.  It's already cleared the Chicago Intl. Distribution Center and now is in the Chicago Distribution Center.  Hopefully my Comet Cars will be coming this week!

How are you able to see what is coming to you without a tracking number? I ordered direct from Rapido as well...they charged me...but no word since then.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 18, 2021, 06:25:57 PM
Some dealers still seem to be taking pre-orders.
For example: https://www.hogtrainz.com/NRAPIDOCOMET.htm (https://www.hogtrainz.com/NRAPIDOCOMET.htm)

Checked with them already…no dice. All sold out.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: conrail1973 on October 18, 2021, 07:10:07 PM
How are you able to see what is coming to you without a tracking number? I ordered direct from Rapido as well...they charged me...but no word since then.

I’ve been keeping an eye on Informed Delivery on usps.com, and that’s when I noticed a package coming from Toronto.  I haven’t received any notification from Rapido, so I’m assuming it’s my Comet Cars unless one of my kids just happened to order something from Canada  :lol:
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 18, 2021, 07:18:07 PM
USPS Informed Delivery always only shows me what I am getting the morning of the day it is delivered…and it never shows that packages are being delivered, only flat mail. I wonder if there is some kind of setting or option that I have missed.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on October 18, 2021, 09:47:00 PM
Checked with them already…no dice. All sold out.
What about here: https://www.nscalesupply.com/rap/rap-passenger-comet.html (https://www.nscalesupply.com/rap/rap-passenger-comet.html)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 18, 2021, 10:03:42 PM
USPS Informed Delivery always only shows me what I am getting the morning of the day it is delivered…and it never shows that packages are being delivered, only flat mail. I wonder if there is some kind of setting or option that I have missed.

I believe that only flat mail included because only those pieces go through the automatic OCR machine that takes a photo of the mail piece to read the address.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 18, 2021, 10:04:22 PM
What about here: https://www.nscalesupply.com/rap/rap-passenger-comet.html (https://www.nscalesupply.com/rap/rap-passenger-comet.html)

I appreciate you looking for other sellers. I had already emailed N Scale Supply and they said they were tapped out as well. Most places have apparently not updated their websites since these have been released.  I hope this all means that Rapido is having success with the Comets (and Horizons) and will continue to introduce more products in N scale.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on October 18, 2021, 10:47:23 PM
I appreciate you looking for other sellers. I had already emailed N Scale Supply and they said they were tapped out as well. Most places have apparently not updated their websites since these have been released.  I hope this all means that Rapido is having success with the Comets (and Horizons) and will continue to introduce more products in N scale.
One last possibility: http://www.toytrainheaven.com/.sc/ms/dd/N%20Passenger%20Cars--Rapido/103830430/Rapido%20Trains%20Inc%20N%20Comet%20Cab%20Car%20Boston%20MBTA%2C%20DUE%207%5E2F30%5E2F2020%2C%20LIST%20PRICE%20%2469.95 (http://www.toytrainheaven.com/.sc/ms/dd/N%20Passenger%20Cars--Rapido/103830430/Rapido%20Trains%20Inc%20N%20Comet%20Cab%20Car%20Boston%20MBTA%2C%20DUE%207%5E2F30%5E2F2020%2C%20LIST%20PRICE%20%2469.95)

Then, if that fails, there's always the brute force method of contacting every dealer listed on the Rapido website:
https://rapidotrains.com/dealers/dealer-listing (https://rapidotrains.com/dealers/dealer-listing)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 19, 2021, 09:29:52 AM
One last possibility: http://www.toytrainheaven.com/.sc/ms/dd/N%20Passenger%20Cars--Rapido/103830430/Rapido%20Trains%20Inc%20N%20Comet%20Cab%20Car%20Boston%20MBTA%2C%20DUE%207%5E2F30%5E2F2020%2C%20LIST%20PRICE%20%2469.95 (http://www.toytrainheaven.com/.sc/ms/dd/N%20Passenger%20Cars--Rapido/103830430/Rapido%20Trains%20Inc%20N%20Comet%20Cab%20Car%20Boston%20MBTA%2C%20DUE%207%5E2F30%5E2F2020%2C%20LIST%20PRICE%20%2469.95)

Then, if that fails, there's always the brute force method of contacting every dealer listed on the Rapido website:
https://rapidotrains.com/dealers/dealer-listing (https://rapidotrains.com/dealers/dealer-listing)

That’s one I was not aware of…thanks! I ordered and it took my money, we will see what happens. I have never heard of that store before so I hope they are legit.

Thanks again for finding this!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on October 19, 2021, 12:11:56 PM
That’s one I was not aware of…thanks! I ordered and it took my money, we will see what happens. I have never heard of that store before so I hope they are legit.

Thanks again for finding this!
Good luck with your order.  Hopefully their website info is up to date, unlike that for some other dealers as you noted above.
As far as being a "legit" dealer, I've ordered from them multiple times without any issues, so that shouldn't be a concern for you.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 19, 2021, 04:05:02 PM
The two I ordered directly from Rapido arrived. I'm very impressed with them out of the box, they roll very very well. So well in fact, I could use them to find slight grades in my layout that I may not have previously known about. The lighting looks good. I just hope the other place that claimed to have "preorders" available actually is able to fill the order I put in, otherwise I'm only going to have a Phase 6 Amtrak coach and a California Dinette.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 19, 2021, 04:52:11 PM
Good luck with your order.  Hopefully their website info is up to date, unlike that for some other dealers as you noted above.
As far as being a "legit" dealer, I've ordered from them multiple times without any issues, so that shouldn't be a concern for you.

Just got an email saying they won’t be filling my order...they don’t have any. The search continues!!!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on October 19, 2021, 08:39:25 PM
Just got an email saying they won’t be filling my order...they don’t have any. The search continues!!!
That's unfortunate.

If these cars are only now being shipped to dealers and direct customers, then I'd check the MB Klein site every day looking for them to become available.
While they don't accept pre-orders, they used to have an option to request a notification via email when a particular item was added to their website so that it could be ordered.
It wasn't a reservation or pre-order, so you still had to place an order after being notified - and act promptly before the item sold out.
I'd inquire if that can still be done.
 
Also, I'd contact all of the dealers on the Rapido list that are located in MA.
Maybe, at least one of them has ordered some extra cab cars beyond just those that customers might have pre-ordered.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 19, 2021, 09:11:48 PM
I contacted MB Klein earlier...they put me on their list for in stock notification.

I will try the MA hobby shop route as well.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 19, 2021, 09:18:14 PM
I contacted MB Klein earlier...they put me on their list for in stock notification.

I will try the MA hobby shop route as well.

If you don't get them that way, as much as it pains me to say it, start checking the big auction site in about a month. I'm sure there's sellers who bought them to flip them, the price will be the tough pill to swallow there.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: learmoia on October 19, 2021, 09:52:31 PM
The two I ordered directly from Rapido arrived. I'm very impressed with them out of the box, they roll very very well. So well in fact, I could use them to find slight grades in my layout that I may not have previously known about.

(https://www.nscaledivision.com/images/NMRA%20Images/NMRA_Standards_Gauge.jpg)

 :?

Didn't they use actual roller berrings in these?
:) ~Ian
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on October 19, 2021, 10:04:03 PM
How does an NMRA gauge help you find grades?

 (Hint: it doesn't.)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 19, 2021, 10:56:56 PM
Didn't they use actual roller berrings in these?
:) ~Ian

No.
Photos coming shortly (well, hopefully tomorrow).
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 20, 2021, 12:41:30 AM
No.
Photos coming shortly (well, hopefully tomorrow).

Where did you get yours from? If it was from Rapido, did you get any shipping notification?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 20, 2021, 12:54:09 AM
Where did you get yours from? If it was from Rapido, did you get any shipping notification?

No. I reserved them at the Trainworld, and they arrived on Monday.  Paid the price I reserved them for:  $49.99 for coach, and $59.99 for the cab car.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: learmoia on October 20, 2021, 11:02:32 AM
How does an NMRA gauge help you find grades?

 (Hint: it doesn't.)

No it helps you check if the wheels are in gauge.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 20, 2021, 12:39:46 PM
(https://www.nscaledivision.com/images/NMRA%20Images/NMRA_Standards_Gauge.jpg)

 :?

Didn't they use actual roller berrings in these?
:) ~Ian

Sorry, I didn't think about putting a wheel gauge on them. I put them on the track and they worked out of the box, I'm not one to go looking for problems if I don't find one.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 20, 2021, 12:46:20 PM
Mine just arrived. Can confirm some sort of roller bearing mechanism. Weels look a bit small and have larger flanges then I expected but haven't had a good chance to look yet.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: learmoia on October 20, 2021, 01:57:37 PM
Sorry, I didn't think about putting a wheel gauge on them. I put them on the track and they worked out of the box, I'm not one to go looking for problems if I don't find one.

The initial post was a callback to the gauge issues discussed on the F units a few weeks ago....
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 20, 2021, 03:46:54 PM
The initial post was a callback to the gauge issues discussed on the F units a few weeks ago....

Yup, I picked up on that. I had a bunch of other boxes I got all at once with various rolling stock. Had it crossed my mind, I'd have checked for sure. I'm out of town again, but I'll check when I get home, and when my 2nd order comes in.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 20, 2021, 04:59:06 PM
I received my cars 2 days ago.  I'm both very happy, and somewhat disappointed.
I'm very happy that these models were produced, but disappointed in execution of some of their features.


(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-201021160411-261782061.jpeg)

First the trucks.  They feature an unusual design (not a bad thing in itself).  They snap onto the kingpin.  Notice on the lower left bearing that the contact strip is not located properly. While it still contacts the brass I'm going to fix it.  This is not the only car with that misalignment - other cars I bought also have the same problem.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-201021160410-26177659.jpeg)

Top view of the truck with one wheelset removed.  The electric contacts are a sandwich of a thinner piece (which contacts the bearings) and thicker part (which goes up into the contact strips in the floor.  Interesting how Rapido chose to have the contacts close to the center of the truck, where Kato and some other manufactures have the contacts closer to the outside of the cars.  I do like the open see-through design of the frame.

The wheelset/bearing assembly simply snaps in and out of the truck frame.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-201021160420-26180522.jpeg)

The details of the wheelset.  The stepped half-axle design assures that the wheels do not get tight in gauge.  The end part of the axle is 1mm in diameter, the thicker part (which rides in the bearing) is and oddball 1.28mm (1.3mm ?) in diameter.  The bearing is just standard "friction" bearing machined from brass. I'm actually glad they did not use tiny ball bearings - I predicts lots of problems with those once some debris get inside.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-201021160421-261811920.jpeg)

The fit between the axle and the bearing is very loose.  Here you see how much empty space exists between the axle and the hole in the bearing.
While I haven't done any testing, the trucks are in fact quite free-rolling.  But (and a big "but") is that the bearings are dry - no lubrication whatsoever.  Any lubricant added there would negatively affect the rolling quality.  Is it ok to run a metal-on-metal bearings unlubricated?  Only time will tell.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-201021160421-261822044.jpeg)

Next, the wheels.  Here is a photo comparing Rapido (bottom) and Kato Amfleet wheelset.  This is one of the disappointments.  Kato has upgraded their wheels to be narrower and have lower flanges.  This brand new model has a thread that is quite wide, and the flanges that are high and also quite "fat" or thick.  Very surprising that a new model has wheels which look like that, especially considering that Rapido's Osgood Bradley cars have much better looking wheels.

Also, with the oddball 1.28mm diameter axle, retrofitting better looking wheels would be difficult.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-201021160420-261791155.jpeg)

Another comparison of Kato and Rapido wheels. This shows the difference in flange depth.  I'm also not too impressed with the wheel face profile.  It is ok, but it could be better.  But I'm also not a fan of the Kato's wheel face.  The best inside-bearing truck wheels were IMO Bachmann Amfleets (the most recent release).

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-201021160359-261701414.jpeg)
The other disappointment is the paint.  As soon as I took the car out of the box I noticed that the very bright silver paint was shimmering like it had lots of sparkles in it.   I first thought that this was due to very fine crazing of the model's surface (as if they used paint that is too "hot" for plastic), but after giving it a closer look, it might just be the rough texture of the paint itself (large metallic particles?). Either way, the surface is not smooth. 

Paint on the real Comet cars is a dull silver color.  Sure, you can say that I can spray some Dullcote over the silver.  Well, with masking involved it is a pain, and I should not have to do this to a brand new $50 model!

The fancy light features I feel are also not very well done.  There is a 220uF cap on the circuit board, but it doesn't really offer any keep-alive for the lights.  If one turned on the EOT lights in the car or turns off the interior lights, even short interruption will reset the circuit to the default setting.

Also, the couplers are copy of MTL couplers with stiffer spring.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: brill27mcb on October 20, 2021, 08:28:40 PM
There is no paint on real Comet cars. The surface is brushed aluminum.

Rich K.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 20, 2021, 08:48:09 PM
There is no paint on real Comet cars. The surface is brushed aluminum.

Rich K.

Sure, but the model is plastic. There are plenty of dull-silver paints available out there.  My point was that the model's body is not decorated accurately.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 21, 2021, 02:02:43 AM
I will post photos when I have a chance. My mom entered the ICU today for blood clots in her lungs and a stroke. It's been - a day.

The cars look pretty close to the prototype and roll better than any other inside bearing truck I am aware of. I just wish the wheels looked a little prettier. Still the detail and electrical qualities make me think these would be good under the Bachmann Amfleet cars and I hope they make them available separately.

Looking at the cab car, I can't quite figure out what era it represents. The mini snow plow (included under the clam shell) and lack of roof lift rings make me think they modeled the original Comet II and not any of the subsequent orders placed with Bombardier. BUT the cars have ditch lights. By the time the ditch lights rolled around, these cars had been rebuilt with lift rings and diaphragms on the cab end to allow them to be used as mid-train cars. Also of note is the lack of a vandal cage on the cab window or wide yellow end stripes which would be correct for the original order into the 80's.

More annoyingly, the decal sheet does not supply me enough car numbers for all the ones I bought. Admittedly, I doubt many bought three entire trains worth. And there are no extra large car numbers for the roof. Luckily these are available from Microscale.

My planned upgrades will include a modified Atlas B23-7 low profile snow plow and vandal screens, new rubber diaphragms on the cabs, as well as lift rings.

As for the paint, Pete is right. It does come off as a bit grainy when looked at up close. Since none of the cars I have ever painted in MBTA were any better, I'm going to give them a pass for this. I'll need to hit them with matte finish anyway after applying the decals. The purple paint is dead on.

Overall, I'd give these cars a solid B+ or A-. The things they got wrong are minor details only an MBTA nerd would find. I'm OK with that. The wheels are a bit clunky, but not so bad they ruin the model. And man do these things roll well. That means I can run a realistic 5 car set with one Kato F40PH. That was my biggest worry before receiving them.

If you can find them in stock, get them.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: MK on October 21, 2021, 07:23:29 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your mom Daniel.  My best wishes to her to pull through this and for a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Dwight in Toronto on October 21, 2021, 04:02:11 PM
Sheesh … if it’s true that misery loves company, those of us who had a lot of disappointments with Rapido’s The Canadian should be feeling more content, knowing that expectations seem to not have been met in this camp as well.  Pity.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: brill27mcb on October 21, 2021, 09:58:34 PM
I received my cars 2 days ago.  I'm both very happy, and somewhat disappointed.
I'm very happy that these models were produced, but disappointed in execution of some of their features.
[...]
Paint on the real Comet cars is a dull silver color. 
[...]

I rest my case, and agree with you that the paint on the model does not look correct, based on your detailed photo.

Rich K.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 21, 2021, 10:06:25 PM
Daniel, I am praying for your mom to get better soon!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: spookshow on October 23, 2021, 06:34:28 AM
How about some pictures? As usual, RT hasn't updated their website with pictures of the finished product.

Thanks!
-Mark
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 24, 2021, 03:54:40 PM
One more annoyance - the wheels are 32-33" wide, not 36". I thought they looked a little small.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: wcfn100 on October 24, 2021, 06:46:46 PM
One more annoyance - the wheels are 32-33" wide, not 36". I thought they looked a little small.

Probably scanned the wheels.  :ashat:

Jason
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on October 24, 2021, 07:34:22 PM
Looks like way back in 2010, a youngster called peteski pondered this very wheel question in this thread on another forum:

https://railroad.net/viewtopic.php?t=69327

According to a poster in that thread, the wheels are 33" in real life...I have no idea if that person is right.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: MK on October 24, 2021, 09:00:58 PM
Looks like way back in 2010, a youngster called peteski pondered this very wheel question in this thread on another forum:

https://railroad.net/viewtopic.php?t=69327

According to a poster in that thread, the wheels are 33" in real life...I have no idea if that person is right.

And back then it was only his Post #3.  Who would have thought that a decade later he would surpass 20,000 posts, fast approaching 30,000!   :D
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 25, 2021, 08:58:37 AM
I never realized the prototype had small wheels.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 25, 2021, 05:51:36 PM
I should go back and further my comment. My free rolling cars are Horizons. The Comets I got do not roll anywhere near as well as the Horizon cars. Probably similar to the Athearn Bombardier Bi-Levels I've got in the past. either way, I'm reasonably happy with them all in all, wish I could find a few more Amtrak Phase VI un-numbered Horizons.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: conrail1973 on October 25, 2021, 06:32:00 PM
I have to say that I'm impressed with the Comet Cars as they fill a need for those of us who model the Northeast.  On my small switching layout, I haven't had any issues with how they operate.  I'm glad that Rapido took the opportunity to manufacture these for N Scale, and I only hope they consider the F40PH for the commuter roads and Turboliner in N Scale  :)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 25, 2021, 06:52:14 PM
I should go back and further my comment. My free rolling cars are Horizons. The Comets I got do not roll anywhere near as well as the Horizon cars. Probably similar to the Athearn Bombardier Bi-Levels I've got in the past. either way, I'm reasonably happy with them all in all, wish I could find a few more Amtrak Phase VI un-numbered Horizons.

I been playing around with the cars I have and I think the Kato F40PH may just be able to pull a full 5 car train. Luckily, there is plenty of room in the Kato engine for more weight and the F40PH-2C I built is loaded with lead and should pull about a dozen cars.

I think they may be just a bit more free-rolling than the Kato Amfleets but I have no Athearn Bombardiers to compare them with. They are much more free-rolling than either version of the Bachmann Amfleet (which is a very low bar to clear). I wonder if MTL graphite powder would help them any?

Besides the silver paint and the wide wheels, these are fantastic models and I highly recommend them.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 25, 2021, 07:17:31 PM
I never realized the prototype had small wheels.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-251021191106-262181288.jpeg)

Those wheels look awfully small.

Yes, it looks like Rapido got it right. To me the wheels  on Comet cars (and Messerschmidt?) cars always looked smaller than 36".  That was why, back a decade ago I asked the question on railroad.net.  While that answer is not official, it agrees with what I suspected.  I wish I still had contacts in management at MBTA, but they all retired or passed away, and now it is ran by Keolis anyway.

I also manged to break one of those super-fragile suspension details on one of the trucks.  I hope Rapido can sell  me a replacement.

Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 25, 2021, 07:29:50 PM
I been playing around with the cars I have and I think the Kato F40PH may just be able to pull a full 5 car train. Luckily, there is plenty of room in the Kato engine for more weight and the F40PH-2C I built is loaded with lead and should pull about a dozen cars.

I think they may be just a bit more free-rolling than the Kato Amfleets but I have no Athearn Bombardiers to compare them with. They are much more free-rolling than either version of the Bachmann Amfleet (which is a very low bar to clear). I wonder if MTL graphite powder would help them any?

Besides the silver paint and the wide wheels, these are fantastic models and I highly recommend them.

I agree. For kicks I got some Kato Amfleet cars out, and yes, they (the Comet cars) do appear to roll slightly better than a Kato Amfleet. After playing with a couple of each, I'd say the Athearn Bi-Levels actually roll slightly better than the Rapido Comet cars. All very unscientific testing, of course.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 25, 2021, 08:37:33 PM
I agree. For kicks I got some Kato Amfleet cars out, and yes, they (the Comet cars) do appear to roll slightly better than a Kato Amfleet. After playing with a couple of each, I'd say the Athearn Bi-Levels actually roll slightly better than the Rapido Comet cars. All very unscientific testing, of course.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I believe that axle lubrication makes a (negative) difference in rolling ability.  Kato Amfleet trucks have lubricant (yellow grease) in the axle bearings and I think that dampens their rolling ability.  Rapido Comet cars have bone-dry bearings, so the roll a bit better than Kato. 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 25, 2021, 08:51:08 PM
One other thing I forgot to mention is that it looks like there is no glue used in the cars. Everything snaps in like a Kato. This week really help when weathering the cars as the windows pop right out.

BTW I contacted Rapido about the lack of roof number decals. They stated the roof numbers would make a decal sheet far too large for the case and they are partnering with Highball Graphics to produce additional number sheets including the large roof numbers. These will also include a lot more numbers than included in the box.

Now I just need to fabricate some lift rings to update these to the newer Bombardier cars which were far more prevalent  on the MBTA. I may also try and remove the marker lights on the coaches. Anyone thought about replacing the capacitor with something that lasts longer?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 25, 2021, 09:26:52 PM
One other thing I forgot to mention is that it looks like there is no glue used in the cars. Everything snaps in like a Kato. This week really help when weathering the cars as the windows pop right out.
My cars have the door windows glued in and also the ends of window strips are glued in. I have not trued to pry them out but if they come out easily then maybe because there is paint under the glue?
 
Quote
Now I just need to fabricate some lift rings to update these to the newer Bombardier cars which were far more prevalent  on the MBTA. I may also try and remove the marker lights on the coaches. Anyone thought about replacing the capacitor with something that lasts longer?

Sounds like a job for 3D printer.

As for the lightboards, they are IMO needlessly complex.  I'm planning on "reverse engineering" them.  From what I see so far, they have internal voltage regulator, and probably most of the capacitor's charge is wasted as heat by the voltage regulator.  You can likely just replace it with a larger value cap, but you would likely have to change the 220uF cap to at least 1000uF or more to see any de-flicker effect.  As it is now, when the car hits some dirty track, the circuit will reset to default state.

I also wish the light boards were mounted higher up in the roof. As is, they are almost at the top edge of the windows.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: sixpakpop on October 25, 2021, 09:34:55 PM
Uh oh. Got a few from Train World and as I was running them, one derailed..... in a tunnel..... that's almost inaccessible.... Fished it out, and discovered this:
A couple of the other cars are missing one or two. Only found the one for this car. Wondering what to use to reattach it? And how do I get the picture turned around?


(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/1689-251021212805.jpeg) (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=26228)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 25, 2021, 09:44:00 PM
Those strange looking silver parts are representation of the dual inner brake disks and calipers.  I only  figured that out after one fall off and I took a closer look at it. Not sure why they painted them silver as the only bare metal surface would be faces of the disks (relatively small area on those part).  These are strictly cosmetic parts.

Anyway, they appear to be attached using CA glue (using a bit of CA accelerator would probably be a good idea). I haven't' glued mine back on yet.

Also, my Horizon cars have wheels that are tight in gauge. Fortunately it is an easy fix.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 26, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
For those who are interested and might find them for sale at a retailer still, Rapido put up their video with production models of both the Horizon and Comet today. My question for anyone with experience is, has anyone had luck in getting road numbers to come off to be replaced on Rapido products in the past? I'm going to end up with a couple duplicates, so I'll plan to eventually renumber a few of the coaches.

Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on October 27, 2021, 12:13:43 AM
I also wish the light boards were mounted higher up in the roof. As is, they are almost at the top edge of the windows.
If you were to replace the large electrolytic capacitor with a lower profile (surface mount) part - perhaps mounted on an extra piece of PCB material installed in the cutout - would it then be possible to mount the lighting board somewhat closer to the roof?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Wutter on October 27, 2021, 12:19:10 AM
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but do the ditch lights work on the cab cars? And is there a provision for DCC in the cabs? (Next18 or 6pin/8pin connector)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 27, 2021, 01:50:08 AM
If you were to replace the large electrolytic capacitor with a lower profile (surface mount) part - perhaps mounted on an extra piece of PCB material installed in the cutout - would it then be possible to mount the lighting board somewhat closer to the roof?

Not really, because the EOT/headlight light pipes and their shields keep the PC board from being able to be moved up into the roof.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 27, 2021, 01:52:03 AM
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but do the ditch lights work on the cab cars? And is there a provision for DCC in the cabs? (Next18 or 6pin/8pin connector)

The ditch lights work along with the headlight. All the lights are controlled by the magnetic wand (Hall effect sensors and custom-made IC).  No provisions for DCC, which I found surprising in a brand new model of a cab car.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045553-26246369.jpeg)

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045554-262481861.jpeg)

And the light pipes:

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045531-262391318.jpeg)

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045531-262401759.jpeg)

Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 27, 2021, 05:12:25 AM
So, I cracked open the box of my Amtrak Dinette car for the first time, removed the top part of the nest, and then peeled up the clear film, and the first thing I noticed was . . .

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045719-262522071.jpeg)

At first I thought "Damn!  If this was a Micro-Trains car, I would have a rare collectible misprint!", but this is just a lowly Rapido Trains model.  Oh well . . .
Then I thought "How could they have messed that up!?"  I took the car out of its nest, and looked at the other side. No errors.  Just one "Dinatte" on the entire car.  That means they have different Tampo set for each side.  Interesting.  Well, this error easily passes the 3-foot rule, so I give them a pass.  But still . . .  :D

@rapidomike
Now I fully expect Rapido to tell us that they actually duplicated the misspelling on the prototype car, and provide photographic proof!  If that is the case, I'll eat my NCE hammerhead throttle! 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 27, 2021, 05:28:49 AM
How about some pictures? As usual, RT hasn't updated their website with pictures of the finished product.

Thanks!
-Mark

Here are few shots @spookshow

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045719-262531611.jpeg)

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045720-262541496.jpeg)

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045530-262352383.jpeg)

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045531-262381248.jpeg)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: RSWController on October 27, 2021, 08:59:19 AM
Information purposes they have appeared this morning on MBK. Didn’t look at others but all the Amtrak had 20+ in stock this morning…
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: MK on October 27, 2021, 09:38:25 AM
Is Dinatte the French Canadian spelling of Dinette?   :trollface:
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: spookshow on October 27, 2021, 10:37:31 AM
Thanks, Pete! Got a cab car?

-Mark
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on October 27, 2021, 12:02:15 PM
Information purposes they have appeared this morning on MBK. Didn’t look at others but all the Amtrak had 20+ in stock this morning…

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't need more, but what's one more train...
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on October 27, 2021, 12:34:08 PM
I ordered 2 coaches and a dinette from MBK this morning. Phase III wide stripes. It is what I rode in Illinois to and from college back in the day. Should work in nicely with my Kato amfleets and heritage units.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 27, 2021, 03:04:52 PM
Thanks, Pete! Got a cab car?

-Mark

I do. Actually all the interior photos I posted earlier were of the cab car.  It is still disassembled. I'll take a photo of the cab when I put it back together.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on October 27, 2021, 09:01:54 PM
Pete, have you tried adjusting the position of the brake calipers on your Comets yet? It looks like some may have been glued in crooked. I carefully adjusted mine with tweezers and trimmed some material back from the brake pad. I have not had a chance to compare it with unmodified cars yet but it appears to be more free-rolling on my desk. We might be able to get away with just this and polishing the bearing surfaces.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on October 27, 2021, 09:47:53 PM
Pete, have you tried adjusting the position of the brake calipers on your Comets yet? It looks like some may have been glued in crooked. I carefully adjusted mine with tweezers and trimmed some material back from the brake pad. I have not had a chance to compare it with unmodified cars yet but it appears to be more free-rolling on my desk. We might be able to get away with just this and polishing the bearing surfaces.

I have 3 Comets and mine also have crooked brake shoe assemblies.  Some are even loose.  They appear to be just glued in with CA glue.  My plan is to re-glue them and make sure they are not touching the wheels.
It will be interesting to see how much difference polishing the metal surfaces will make.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: brill27mcb on November 01, 2021, 04:34:55 PM
So, for people actually running their new Rapido push-pull trains, here are some pointers:

1. On New Jersey Transit, at least. the minimum train size for Comet II trains was set at 3 coaches. This was because the coaches were needed to help bring the heavy F40PH-2  loco to a halt under braking, and 3 coaches were enough to do that quickly enough.

2. All of the NJT Comet I and II coaches have to be oriented the same way in a train, so that the smaller "single" window on the sides is located toward the locomotive. (You can just go by the cab car and match it with the other trailer cars.) This is because the 27-point jumper cabling on one side of the cars handles different functions than the 27-point cabling on the other side.

As a side note, on the NJT Raritan Valley and North Jersey Coast Lines, the trains were generally oriented with the locomotive on the "outbound" end leaving Newark Penn Station. The exceptions were the consists used for the first morning "inbound" train on each line which were reversed, with the loco leading inbound to give more head-end protection from possible obstructions left on the tracks overnight.

Rich K.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on November 01, 2021, 06:34:17 PM
So, for people actually running their new Rapido push-pull trains, here are some pointers:

1. On New Jersey Transit, at least. the minimum train size for Comet II trains was set at 3 coaches. This was because the coaches were needed to help bring the heavy F40PH-2  loco to a halt under braking, and 3 coaches were enough to do that quickly enough.

2. All of the NJT Comet I and II coaches have to be oriented the same way in a train, so that the smaller "single" window on the sides is located toward the locomotive. (You can just go by the cab car and match it with the other trailer cars.) This is because the 27-point jumper cabling on one side of the cars handles different functions than the 27-point cabling on the other side.

As a side note, on the NJT Raritan Valley and North Jersey Coast Lines, the trains were generally oriented with the locomotive on the "outbound" end leaving Newark Penn Station. The exceptions were the consists used for the first morning "inbound" train on each line which were reversed, with the loco leading inbound to give more head-end protection from possible obstructions left on the tracks overnight.

Rich K.

So 3 trailers and a cab car, or 2 trailers + 1 cab? What power would be common in the recent era? I'm thinking about running them with an ALP-45DP, hopefully this isn't too far out there.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: dem34 on November 01, 2021, 09:53:12 PM
So 3 trailers and a cab car, or 2 trailers + 1 cab? What power would be common in the recent era? I'm thinking about running them with an ALP-45DP, hopefully this isn't too far out there.

Going to be the great bubble burster, don't think the Comet IIs that these models are based on ever really ran with ALP45s though I see some stored ones in the same yards. Comet IIIs are visually pretty close though. Down the shore the shuttle trains during Summer are 6 Comet trailers 1 cab. Winter Shuttles are 2 trailers, 1 cab. (Most trains are a mix of different comet varieties between IIIs and Vs.)  NYC direct is 7-9 Bi-Level trailers, plus cab. Power in the modern era is mostly ALP45DPs, with semi common usage of GP40PH-2Bs and PL42s, on rare occasions salvaged F40PH-2CATs. But if you turn the clock back a little to the early 00s and get inventive you can pull them with GP40FH-2s and mix them with stripped down Arrow Trailers.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on November 01, 2021, 10:11:40 PM
Going to be the great bubble burster, don't think the Comet IIs that these models are based on ever really ran with ALP45s though I see some stored ones in the same yards. Comet IIIs are visually pretty close though. Down the shore the shuttle trains during Summer are 6 Comet trailers 1 cab. Winter Shuttles are 2 trailers, 1 cab. (Most trains are a mix of different comet varieties between IIIs and Vs.)  NYC direct is 7-9 Bi-Level trailers, plus cab. Power in the modern era is mostly ALP45DPs, with semi common usage of GP40PH-2Bs and PL42s, on rare occasions salvaged F40PH-2CATs. But if you turn the clock back a little to the early 00s and get inventive you can pull them with GP40FH-2s and mix them with stripped down Arrow Trailers.

I found at least one video on youtube of an ALP45 running into Raritan with a Comet IV coach, 5 Comet IIm coaches and a Comet V Cab car. So I don't feel awful running them behind an ALP45. May not be totally 100% correct, but it's not too far fetched either.

Thanks for the info, I know very little on NJT.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on November 02, 2021, 04:09:17 AM
Since Rich started talking about operations on the NJT, I'll add what I remember and have read about Comet use on the MBTA.

1977
The MBTA purchased their first batch of Comet II commuter cars. These would be mixed in with de-motored RDCs, Boise Budd RDC rebuilds and Osgood Bradley coaches. There was no particular orientation of the coaches, but cab cars always faced East in push/pull service. The Comet II(BTC-1/CTC-1), Boise Budds (BTC-2/CTC-2) and de-motored RDCs had cab control versions. Motive power was a mess. trains from North Station ran with B&M geeps. South Station trains had ex PC or Amtrak E8s early on.

1978
The Blizzards of 1977 and 1978 quickly broke down what was left of the RDC fleet and everything was converted to conventional trains shortly thereafter. Rebuilds were stepped up, the first of the F40PH engines started to arrive and the Comets came online quickly. A small batch of GMO F3/7 units were rebuilt from the frame up with new electronics and shopped engines. Boilers were replaced with HEP generators that required bump-outs at the end of the car body. These were known as FP10s.

Early 1980's
Motive power settled on the PII F40PH and FP10s. Osgood Bradley cars started wearing out and traditional de-motored RDCs were retired. A second order for 5 PIII F40PHs was placed in 1980. Engines featured the "black eye" paint scheme where the windshield was painted black and wide yellow stripes adorned the ends of engines and cab cars. This scheme lasted until about 1985 or so. A few engines were painted in a reverse purple band. The purple is not the standard MBTA color and looks almost maroon. It was speculated these were not authorized by management and was the work of a rouge paint shop.

Mid 80's
Contracts went out to EMD and M-K for F40PH-2C (F40PHM-2C for the M-K units). These engines were about 8 feet longer than regular F40s to house a separate HEP engine.   With these new engines coming online, the FP10s were retired. Southern routes would get new equipment first, a pattern that lasts to this day. Additional orders for Bombardier Comet II (BTC-1A, BTC-1B/CTC-1A, CTC-1B) cars and Messerschmitt BTC-3/CTC-3 came online by 1988. These replaced the last of the RDC, Boise Budd and Osgood Bradley cars. I believe the MBB cars were the first to feature a bathroom in every car.

1990/1991
MBTA retired the very last OB, Budd RDC and rebuilds and FP10s, all relegated to North Station by this time. Kawasaki BTC-4/CTC-4 started production in 1990. These were the first bi-level commuter cars in the Boston area. Class lights started to be removed from the F40 fleet as well as changes in horns and bell positions.

1995
The first Comet II cars (BTC-1 and CTC-1) were rebuilt. All comet type cars would get a more thorough rebuild around 2009. the changes mostly included seat restoration, electrical work and removal of the marker lights on all cars except for the cab car ends. All cab cars feature ditch lights. Engines would follow by 1998.

1997
Second order of Kawasaki bi-level cars started to arrive. Heavily rebuilt GP40-2 (GP40MC) also arrived this year. These were ex-CN engines with lengthened frames and shared almost no body panels with their predecessors.

2001
Third order of Kawasaki cars arrives. Several F40PHs receive rebuilds.

2004
Former Ohio Central GP40-3 is purchased for MoW work. Prior to this, MoW work relied on first generation geeps that seldom worked.

2008/2009
All F40PH-2C engines are heavily rebuilt by this time. The EMD models were modified to match the look of the MK units. The rebuilds would be painted in the lightening scheme first seen on the GP40MC. All engines and cab cars loose rock guards. Fourth and final order for Kawasaki cars is placed. MBB cab cars rebuilt to coach only cars. MBTA receives 2 MP36PH-3C from Frontrunner. Two NRE 3GS21B engines join the MoW fleet.

2013/2014
Most F40PH engines scrapped or in storage. First order for Hyundai Rotem cars is placed. These are very similar to the Kawasaki cars before them. Deliveries for the MP40PH-3C, a first new car body design start in 2014. Kawasaki cars start major rebuilds.


Ok, so that's the basics of what equipment arrived when. So lets talk trains. Boston is divided into North Station/South Station. North handles everything on the former B&M tracks. South handles former NYC and NH trackage. Up until about 15 years ago, the south had a major advantage in track conditions and clearances. This led to the MBTA running newer equipment on the south first. For example, you would almost never see an FP10 and a Kawasaki car on the same train, even though there was a bit of an overlap. There was no rule as to what cars ran in which order until recently. Early on, the Kawasaki cars were sprinkled around the trains. Within the past 10 years, I have seen the Kawasaki cars become priories for cab cars. I believe this is due to additional collision protections on these cars. I think this was the reason why the MBB cars were relegated to trailer use before the Comet II were - they did not have collision posts.

Trains were always one engine on the west end and 5 cars including a cab control car facing east. During the 1990's trains running the Framingham/Worcester line would double up on off hour trains (eastbound at night, westbound in the morning). This would effectively be a 10 car commuter train with mid and end unit pushers. The second section would always be off limits. I believe newer stations are equipped to handle trains up to 7 cars long, but I have not seen any longer than 5. Except for cab cars, coaches would face any direction. Engines always nosed away from Boston.

Inbound stations are usually on the right with outbound platforms on the left. This changed frequently due to maintenance issues or just new traffic patterns. While 65 was the speed limit for the Boston Line, I don't think the commuter trains ever reached over 40, and that was only in some areas between Framingham and Worcester.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: nuno81291 on November 02, 2021, 03:01:03 PM
Bummer on the silver paint. I’d like to see samples of the HO models if anyone has any? I forgot to order mine :RUEffinKiddingMe: :facepalm:
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: brill27mcb on November 02, 2021, 04:34:23 PM
So 3 trailers and a cab car, or 2 trailers + 1 cab? What power would be common in the recent era? I'm thinking about running them with an ALP-45DP, hopefully this isn't too far out there.

2 trailers + 1 cab. This was with the F40PH-2s in the early years. I'm not familiar with the more recent operations. My train will be all Comet IIs - I like the uniform appearance.

Now that I have the models, the paint looks OK to my eyes in person. Guess that's the advantage of not having macro-lens eyesight!

Rich K.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 02, 2021, 07:28:35 PM
Now that I have the models, the paint looks OK to my eyes in person. Guess that's the advantage of not having macro-lens eyesight!

Rich K.

We all have our standards I guess.
Macro-lens eyesight?  LOL!  Far from it. I need to wear (dollar store) reading glasses when working/handling models, and Optivisor for close-up work.  When I received these cars I wasn't even wearing the reading glasses when I first took these models out of their box, and even with slightly blurry vision I immediately noticed the silver paint. It was all wrong.  It was way too bright and sparkly.  When I put on my Optivisor to look at the paint closely, that is when I observed the texture -- as if the paint was too "hot", causing fine crazing of the plastic. But it might also just be the texture of the paint itself.

These cars should have graysh-silver look of dull aluminum.  Sure, "spray them with Dullcote" you can say. Well, it is not that easy as parts of the cars have to be masked, and/or windows pried out (they are glued in).  Plus the fact that I would have to do this to a fifty dollar car is not sitting well with me.  It would have been easy for Rapido to choose better matching paint for these, and I would nto have to do anything to make them look correct.  Yes, I'm ranting, but for a good reason.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: eja on November 04, 2021, 12:23:11 AM
Plus the fact that I would have to do this to a fifty dollar car is not sitting well with me. 


Copy that loud and clear.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 04, 2021, 06:29:11 AM
Mine arrived yesterday and the look great and roll extremely free!  Very pleased, may pick up a couple more. 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 04, 2021, 04:14:09 PM
... Very pleased, may pick up a couple more.

Where?  :?

Actually, that brings up another point. If or when Rapido runs another batch, they will most likely use the "bad" silver paint again (so it matches the first run).   :x
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 04, 2021, 07:44:49 PM
Where?  :?

Actually, that brings up another point. If or when Rapido runs another batch, they will most likely use the "bad" silver paint again (so it matches the first run).   :x

Mine are Amtrak and I am very pleased with the paint. They match my Kato cars and engines perfectly.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: jagged ben on November 04, 2021, 09:58:28 PM
Where?  :?

MBK and lombard still seem to have enough.  Didn't look elsewhere.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 04, 2021, 11:13:29 PM
MBK and lombard still seem to have enough.  Didn't look elsewhere.

Amtrak or MBTA?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 04, 2021, 11:18:31 PM
Mine are Amtrak and I am very pleased with the paint. They match my Kato cars and engines perfectly.

I also have the Horizon cars, and the paint is identical to what was used on Comets (makes sense since they are the same cars manufactured by Rapido at the same time).  It is as wrong for Amtrak as it is for MBTA.  Dull aluminum is the correct color.

Which Amtrak cars are you comparing the color to?  For example Amfleets are stainless steel (not dull aluminum), so shinier silver finish is expected on those.  Kato point is also much smoother and not sparkly.  But like I mentioned earlier, we all have our own standards. I guess I'm more picky than an average bear.  :)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: eja on November 05, 2021, 12:13:07 PM
Mine are Amtrak and I am very pleased with the paint. They match my Kato cars and engines perfectly.


Any chance you could post a photo of the two cars ???


Thanks
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 05, 2021, 02:05:55 PM

Any chance you could post a photo of the two cars ???


Thanks

I already posted a partial photo of the Dinatte (sic) in https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47243.msg724590#msg724590 (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47243.msg724590#msg724590) and more photos in the message directly after that one.  The Amtrak Coach decoration-wise identical to the Dinette, with the windows arrangement identical to the Comet cars.  In the past I never realized that the Comet and Horizon cars have identical car bodies. Only the trucks are different.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: eja on November 05, 2021, 03:01:39 PM
Yep.  Saw those ... I was hoping to see a side by side image if I could. 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 05, 2021, 05:32:41 PM
Yep.  Saw those ... I was hoping to see a side by side image if I could.

I suppose I can take a photo like that, but as I mentioned, they have identical bodies, only the livery and the trucks are different.  Actually the diaphragms are slightly different too.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 05, 2021, 07:25:53 PM
I don’t know what to tell you, on my layout the color looks just like I remember them mixed with Amfleet cars. I would take pictures but for some reason I am unable to post them right side up.  I don’t see the metallic flake at all.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 06, 2021, 01:28:27 AM
I don’t know what to tell you, on my layout the color looks just like I remember them mixed with Amfleet cars. I would take pictures but for some reason I am unable to post them right side up.  I don’t see the metallic flake at all.

I posted photos of my cars and described what I see wrong with the paint. I have no doubts that your cars have the same exact finish.  We just have different standards. Plus, I still don't know what other Amtrak cars you are comparing the Horizon cars to.  Your layout lighting might also play a role in how these cars look.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 06, 2021, 09:21:37 AM
Not responsible for upside down pics or sideways.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 06, 2021, 09:27:07 AM
The silver is a bit darker, maybe a little gray in the pictures.  I am about to leave with my wife so I grabbed them quickly and posted them while she is getting ready. I may try a better location on my layout.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 06, 2021, 11:26:43 AM
Metallic silver is difficult to photograph, or compare in photos. I also believe thet both cars aroudn the HOrizon car woudl have been stainless stell, where Horizon is supposed to be dull aluminum color.  It would be interesting how a 1:1 photo of a Horizon and Amfleet car show both silver colors.

But in any case, if you're happy with the color, Rapido is happy with with your money, and that's what counts for you and for them.

I bought those cars (like most  cars we reserve and buy online) without seeing them in-person first, and I'm just reporting that to me (and few others here) the silver color is  not quite right.  Will I buy more? Yes, since nobody else makes them, and I want them bad enough to "hold my nose" as far as the silver paint is concerned, but I'm disappointed that Rapido messed up their color.  With Rapido always bragging about how much research they do, they should have paid more attention to their color.  Who knows, maybe the R&D people in Canada specified the correct silver paint, but manufacturing switched it at the last minute?  Who knows, but the end result is a wrong paint.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 06, 2021, 12:34:13 PM
I ordered two more so I have a nice 5-6 car train if I throw in a baggage car.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on November 06, 2021, 12:39:59 PM
Metallic silver is difficult to photograph, or compare in photos. I also believe thet both cars aroudn the HOrizon car woudl have been stainless stell, where Horizon is supposed to be dull aluminum color.  It would be interesting how a 1:1 photo of a Horizon and Amfleet car show both silver colors.

(http://www.hebners.net/Amtrak/amtHORIZON/amt53003.jpg)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: thomasjmdavis on November 06, 2021, 01:34:48 PM
One of the issues with aluminum sheathed cars, going back to the first large orders built by ACF after WWII, is that while the aluminum is bright and shiny on Day 1 out of the factory, it quickly looses the sheen, initially looking almost white, then "silver gray" and continuing to darken over time, unless given very frequent maintenance. Aluminum also scratches more readily than stainless steel, and dust will "sandblast" the finish to a matte in relatively short order. In the 50s, some roads removed aluminum fluted panels, while others painted the sides in a "aluminum white" (ie- light gray) color, or just gave up all together on trying to imitate stainless steel, like the L&N did when they painted their Hummingbird and Georgian cars dark blue.

So, if Rapido matched to builders photos, the brighter "silver" color might be close to correct (although the flecks that show in some close up photos are still questionable), while most prototype photos are going to show a weathered (gray) appearance, if taken more than a short time after delivery.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 06, 2021, 02:30:02 PM
I do need Kato to bring out another run of F40PH units though. I only have one with ditch lights. I need a phase 3 without.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 06, 2021, 02:46:19 PM
I can only see the metal flecks under flash or extreme direct light. Under normal layout lighting they look great.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on November 06, 2021, 08:49:28 PM
I do need Kato to bring out another run of F40PH units though. I only have one with ditch lights. I need a phase 3 without.
https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6105-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-330 (https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6105-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-330)
https://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/56489 (https://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/56489)
https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6107-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-381 (https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6107-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-381)
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 06, 2021, 09:11:36 PM
https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6105-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-330 (https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6105-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-330)
https://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/56489 (https://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/56489)
https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6107-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-381 (https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6107-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-381)

I appreciate the links but I can be a bit more patient at those prices. Isn't Rapido coming out with these at some point also?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 06, 2021, 09:28:40 PM
I do have two phase v Genesis engines. A quick look makes it appear the overlap could work. They weren’t around when I road it!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Point353 on November 06, 2021, 10:00:00 PM
I appreciate the links but I can be a bit more patient at those prices. Isn't Rapido coming out with these at some point also?
$75 is too much for a loco with an MSRP of $115? That's a 35% discount.
What price were you looking for and do you expect that the Rapido version will be less expensive?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 06, 2021, 10:10:21 PM
$75 is too much for a loco with an MSRP of $115? That's a 35% discount.
What price were you looking for and do you expect that the Rapido version will be less expensive?

Ah, the joke is on me.  They are still in MAP pricing!  These have been around long enough that my usual haunts would list a discounted price. Thanks for making me take a second look. 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: EspeeGoldenState on November 07, 2021, 12:49:27 AM
Metallic silver is difficult to photograph, or compare in photos. I also believe thet both cars aroudn the HOrizon car woudl have been stainless stell, where Horizon is supposed to be dull aluminum color.  It would be interesting how a 1:1 photo of a Horizon and Amfleet car show both silver colors.

While I haven't got my Horizon cars yet, I'm basing my train off the Missouri River Runner. Where Horizons and one/two Amfleets are usually in the consist. I've only linked one pic, but a flickr/google search would yield plenty.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/stefanloeb/15304619958

The weathered/faded Horizons definitely have that dull aluminum look compared to the Amfleets, almost he same muted colors of the P42.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 07, 2021, 09:19:00 PM
(http://www.hebners.net/Amtrak/amtHORIZON/amt53003.jpg)

That's perfect. Thank you both!  That proves my point.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 07, 2021, 09:40:14 PM
That's perfect. Thank you both!  That proves my point.

Was your point that painted cars fade significantly more than stainless steel? 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 07, 2021, 09:45:36 PM
Was your point that painted cars fade significantly more than stainless steel?

Comet cars are *NOT* painted.
The dull grayish silver is their bare aluminum skin.  And yes, I was making a point that those Comet cars should look different than Amfleets (or other stainless steel skinned cars, or even other Amtrak heritage fleet cars which are painted silver).
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: davefoxx on November 08, 2021, 01:20:48 PM
Comet cars are *NOT* painted.
The dull grayish silver is their bare aluminum skin.  And yes, I was making a point that those Comet cars should look different than Amfleets (or other stainless steel skinned cars, or even other Amtrak heritage fleet cars which are painted silver).

Agreed.  That aluminum looks closer to Amtrak's Platinum Mist paint than it does stainless steel.

DFF
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ncbqguy on November 08, 2021, 01:33:39 PM
Does anyone know a shop that has any of the NJ Comets in stock?  A friend missed the boat on preorders and really wants some coaches now.
Charlie Vlk
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: dem34 on November 08, 2021, 07:25:13 PM
Does anyone know a shop that has any of the NJ Comets in stock?  A friend missed the boat on preorders and really wants some coaches now.
Charlie Vlk
He can try calling the model RR shop in Piscataway NJ. They don't like online or even mail orders but if he plans to buy a few then I doubt they'd say no. Was there last Saturday and there were about 20 trailers and 15 cabs left.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ncbqguy on November 08, 2021, 08:04:26 PM
He can try calling the model RR shop in Piscataway NJ. They don't like online or even mail orders but if he plans to buy a few then I doubt they'd say no. Was there last Saturday and there were about 20 trailers and 15 cabs left.
Great!  Just forwarded to my buddy!
Thanks,
Charlie Vlk
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: MetroRedLine on November 09, 2021, 04:58:32 AM
Anyone have these in N scale? How do they roll?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: dem34 on November 09, 2021, 11:14:27 AM
Anyone have these in N scale? How do they roll?

Pretty well as long as the brake detail doesn't rub on the tread. If it does its fixed fairly easily by carefully levering it off the tread with a blade.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on November 09, 2021, 03:24:55 PM
Anyone have these in N scale? How do they roll?

Roughly the same as the Kato Amfleet cars. You should be able to do a full 5 car train with one Kato F40PH without modifications. You can probably hit a 2% grade with one engine but anything more than that and you may see some slipping.

I really like the cars but the snubber assembly is really delicate and prone to breaking. I had one truck broken out of the 15 cars I received. Rapido is sending a replacement.

The other issue I have is that the trucks are not attached by pins but rather split pegs. These can break if you remove the trucks several times. Since the pegs are integrated into the chassis, you need to order an entire new floor assembly to replace it. Not only that but there is a very small and fragile washer between the truck and body that forms a "U" shape. This needs to be oriented correctly around the split pin. This is also very prone to breaking and I needed to make one out of .05" sheet styrene. It is a very perplexing decision to have made the trucks this way and I hope they revise this on subsequent runs.

As for the body color, I'm OK with the silver. These things appeared to be delivered in a bright aluminum finish - maybe not polished, but pretty close to stainless steel color. They quickly changed color, but I found they changed colors on railroads differently. For example, the Amtrak car seen earlier is much lighter than many MBTA comets I have seen.

My guess is that different car washers affect the aluminum surface differently. For example, circular scrub pads used on some railroads might leave a fine surface swirl which could lead to a more uniform oxidized surface. I think that is what is going on with the Amtrak cars.

The MBTA uses fiberglass bristles on a roller to clean the MBTA cars. This leaves deeper groves along a single plane and may account for the slightly darker color of the MBTA cars.

In either case, Rapido is modeling the cars "as new" so I think the silver they chose is appropriate. By the time the MBTA cars took on a dusty graphite look, the purple also faded considerably. Both can be modeled by a fade coat. The windows pop out with ease, even though glued in.

Yeah the cars are expensive, but they required the engineering of an engine to get everything right. I counted four different paint colors just on the interior for example.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: brill27mcb on November 09, 2021, 07:32:54 PM
[...]

As for the body color, I'm OK with the silver. These things appeared to be delivered in a bright aluminum finish - maybe not polished, but pretty close to stainless steel color. They quickly changed color, but I found they changed colors on railroads differently. For example, the Amtrak car seen earlier is much lighter than many MBTA comets I have seen.

[...]

When the Comet II's were manufactured by Bombardier, the side assemblies were gone over with a huge belt sander to provide a straight and uniform "brushed" finish. The window openings were cut out later in the process.

Rich K.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: basementcalling on November 09, 2021, 10:11:23 PM
Who knew AMTRAK cars in N scale would be more expensive than some tickets to ride the real trains that feature these cars.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: thomasjmdavis on November 09, 2021, 11:17:43 PM
Who knew AMTRAK cars in N scale would be more expensive than some tickets to ride the real trains that feature these cars.
That's always been true, as long as you didn't go too far.  I'm so old, I used to ride the C&NW for less than the cost of a Rivarossi sleeper. 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on November 09, 2021, 11:37:23 PM
I really like the cars but the snubber assembly is really delicate and prone to breaking. I had one truck broken out of the 15 cars I received. Rapido is sending a replacement.

The other issue I have is that the trucks are not attached by pins but rather split pegs. These can break if you remove the trucks several times. Since the pegs are integrated into the chassis, you need to order an entire new floor assembly to replace it. Not only that but there is a very small and fragile washer between the truck and body that forms a "U" shape. This needs to be oriented correctly around the split pin. This is also very prone to breaking and I needed to make one out of .05" sheet styrene. It is a very perplexing decision to have made the trucks this way and I hope they revise this on subsequent runs.
I agree on all points, but I have serious doubts that they will revise the kingpin design.  After all, these were not designed to be repeatedly removed by the modeler.

The very delicate parts of the suspension (you call snubber, Rapido calls stabilizer) look great, but like you said, are very fragile.  It is one of those things that they made decision to include for realism, but not really good for operations (handling).  Horizon trucks have slightly different, but much sturdier design for the protruding parts.

I don't know why they added those washers.  Ride height? Probably not.  I already lost couple of them, so I'll try my cars without them. I can always easily make replacements if needed.  BTW, it is not 0.05"  If anything, it is 0.005" (looks more like 0.010" to me).

Quote
As for the body color, I'm OK with the silver. These things appeared to be delivered in a bright aluminum finish - maybe not polished, but pretty close to stainless steel color. They quickly changed color, but I found they changed colors on railroads differently. For example, the Amtrak car seen earlier is much lighter than many MBTA comets I have seen.

My guess is that different car washers affect the aluminum surface differently. For example, circular scrub pads used on some railroads might leave a fine surface swirl which could lead to a more uniform oxidized surface. I think that is what is going on with the Amtrak cars.

The MBTA uses fiberglass bristles on a roller to clean the MBTA cars. This leaves deeper groves along a single plane and may account for the slightly darker color of the MBTA cars.

In either case, Rapido is modeling the cars "as new" so I think the silver they chose is appropriate. By the time the MBTA cars took on a dusty graphite look, the purple also faded considerably. Both can be modeled by a fade coat. The windows pop out with ease, even though glued in.

I could live with the bright color, but it is the paint texture that really bugs me.  Even without my reading glasses, the texture is really pronounced. Like I mentioned, at first I thought they used a "hot" silver paint that crazed the plastic, but I think it is the paint itself that does not have smooth surface.  I'm really surprised that very few notice that.  The photos I posted earlier clearly show what I'm describing.


Quote
Yeah the cars are expensive, but they required the engineering of an engine to get everything right. I counted four different paint colors just on the interior for example.

Yes, especially the electronic (gadgetry). It is cute, but if I could have a car with just simple interior lighting and pay $10 less, I would be all over that.  What's not cool is that power loss resets the circuit to default settings.  And on the cab car, there is no way to fully turn off the cab end lights. Either headlight or the markers will always be on.  It is just the way the circuit is designed. I have the circuit figured out. I'm planning on posting instructions on how to install la DCC decoder to control the lights (but the install will not be an easy task).

What they did get right is the LED brightness.  They run those LEDs on very small current (red LEDs @ 1.4mA and white at only 0.7mA!), but the entire circuitry seems over-designed to me. Internally the circuit operates on 3V. Maybe they originally designed it to be battery operated (2 x 1.5V coin battery), like the easy-peasy lights, but then decided to use the track voltage.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: kscessandriver on November 10, 2021, 12:04:08 PM
I agree on all points, but I have serious doubts that they will revise the kingpin design.  After all, these were not designed to be repeatedly removed by the modeler.

The very delicate parts of the suspension (you call snubber, Rapido calls stabilizer) look great, but like you said, are very fragile.  It is one of those things that they made decision to include for realism, but not really good for operations (handling).  Horizon trucks have slightly different, but much sturdier design for the protruding parts.

I don't know why they added those washers.  Ride height? Probably not.  I already lost couple of them, so I'll try my cars without them. I can always easily make replacements if needed.  BTW, it is not 0.05"  If anything, it is 0.005" (looks more like 0.010" to me).

I could live with the bright color, but it is the paint texture that really bugs me.  Even without my reading glasses, the texture is really pronounced. Like I mentioned, at first I thought they used a "hot" silver paint that crazed the plastic, but I think it is the paint itself that does not have smooth surface.  I'm really surprised that very few notice that.  The photos I posted earlier clearly show what I'm describing.


Yes, especially the electronic (gadgetry). It is cute, but if I could have a car with just simple interior lighting and pay $10 less, I would be all over that.  What's not cool is that power loss resets the circuit to default settings.  And on the cab car, there is no way to fully turn off the cab end lights. Either headlight or the markers will always be on.  It is just the way the circuit is designed. I have the circuit figured out. I'm planning on posting instructions on how to install la DCC decoder to control the lights (but the install will not be an easy task).

What they did get right is the LED brightness.  They run those LEDs on very small current (red LEDs @ 1.4mA and white at only 0.7mA!), but the entire circuitry seems over-designed to me. Internally the circuit operates on 3V. Maybe they originally designed it to be battery operated (2 x 1.5V coin battery), like the easy-peasy lights, but then decided to use the track voltage.

I'll be interested to see how complicated they really are. I just don't understand why Rapido didn't make them DCC ready in some way, for cab lighting control
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: CBQ Fan on November 20, 2021, 07:30:33 PM
https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6105-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-330 (https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6105-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-330)
https://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/56489 (https://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/56489)
https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6107-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-381 (https://tonystrains.com/product/kato-176-6107-n-scale-emd-f40ph-std-dc-amtrak-phase-iii-381)

I finally got around to snagging one from Tony’s.  @Point353
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: nickelplate759 on January 08, 2022, 06:56:24 PM
Mine finally arrived.  Good news - I like them!  Bad news - the Dinette has a wonky twisted floor on one end.  Almost as if there were an obstruction inside.
I note that a few people - certainly @peteski have opened theirs up.   Any tips on getting the floor out, and if anyone else has the similar problem with a twisted/bent floor end how did you fix it?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on January 09, 2022, 02:02:21 AM
Mine finally arrived.  Good news - I like them!  Bad news - the Dinette has a wonky twisted floor on one end.  Almost as if there were an obstruction inside.
I note that a few people - certainly @peteski have opened theirs up.   Any tips on getting the floor out, and if anyone else has the similar problem with a twisted/bent floor end how did you fix it?

Yes, that problem is present (in some degree) in all my cars.  The problem occurred during assembly.  I have fixed one car, but the parts are glued in very well, so there is a chance of cracking the parts.  Fortunately the crack will not be visible.  Basically the problem is caused by the vestibule steps/floor being tilted to one side when being glued to the floor of the car.  That does not allow the shall to fully seat onto the floor. It ends up tilted slightly to one side. I should have taken photos of what I did  to fix it :facepalm:  I still have couple more cars to fix so I'll document the fix.

Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on March 01, 2022, 01:18:17 AM
Ok, so I ended up breaking couple of those fragile stabilizer arms on the trucks (the ones which Rapido instructions mention to be really careful with).  I contacted Rapido to purchase replacement and they came back stating that a small bag with spare stabilizer arms should be in the jewel box under the nest, and that they don'thave many spares.  I checked under nests of all the Comet cars I have, and none had those bag with spares.  I replied to Rapido stating that no spares were included. Hopefully they will send me some spares.

I have question to all the Comet car users: can you check under the nests to see if you have a plastic baggie with spare stabilizer arms?  How about you @daniel_leavitt2000  ? I think you have a passel of Comet cars!   :)

I'm also surprised that Rapido did not have a larger batch of spares made, knowing well that they are very fragile, and will likely need many replacements.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on March 01, 2022, 02:53:42 AM
No spares here either. Maybe they were a late addition?

I honestly don't know how they made it through development like this. "Yeah, that's sturdy enough"

Put down the Molsen guys, ok?
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on March 01, 2022, 03:51:30 AM
No spares here either. Maybe they were a late addition?
Interesting. Thanks for checking - maybe others will chime  in too. 
Maybe someone at the factory decided that  it was too much hassle to pack all those "thingies" in baggies and stick them under the nests.  :|

Quote
I honestly don't know how they made it through development like this. "Yeah, that's sturdy enough"

Put down the Molsen guys, ok?

Eh hoser!  But it's in scale!  :)


Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on March 01, 2022, 06:46:16 AM
Interesting. Thanks for checking - maybe others will chime  in too. 
Maybe someone at the factory decided that  it was too much hassle to pack all those "thingies" in baggies and stick them under the nests.  :|

Eh hoser!  But it's in scale!  :)

Scale don't mean a thing of its sitting on the ballast somewhere.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on March 01, 2022, 02:37:29 PM
Scale don't mean a thing of its sitting on the ballast somewhere.

Yes, I was being factitious facetious.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: davefoxx on March 01, 2022, 03:14:26 PM
Yes, I was being factitious. (Emphasis added.)

I think you meant "facetious," unless you intended to call yourself bogus or a sham.  :trollface:

DFF
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on March 01, 2022, 05:59:01 PM
I think you meant "facetious," unless you intended to call yourself bogus or a sham.  :trollface:

DFF

The usual suspect is to blame. Fixed - thanks!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: screeh on March 02, 2022, 12:16:19 AM
No spares stabilisers in my MBTA and NJT coaches or cabs (which finally completed their journey down under last week)

The cab cars have baggies with what look like pilot details (I didn't spot info on the instructions/warranty sheet to enlighten me on what they are) and decal sheets for numbering but no spare stabilisers.

Cheers,

Stu
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on August 18, 2022, 08:46:55 PM
Resurrecting this thread...anyone know of a good set of easy to find and appropriate number decals for MBTA coach/cab roofs? 
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on August 18, 2022, 09:31:58 PM
Resurrecting this thread...anyone know of a good set of easy to find and appropriate number decals for MBTA coach/cab roofs?

Some related info was posted in reply #174: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47243.msg724488#msg724488 (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=47243.msg724488#msg724488)

But since nothing happened, I assume that Rapido did not produce additional decals sheets.  Maybe Highball Graphics did those on their own?  Check thir website.  But since the numbers are black on transparent film, one could easily draw a set of numbers, and print them on either laser or ink jet printer on a clear decal film.  I'm planning on making such decals in the future (once I get back to working on those cars).
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: ski on August 18, 2022, 09:39:05 PM
Thanks Peteski!!!! HIghball has them!
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on August 19, 2022, 01:44:48 AM
Thanks Peteski!!!! HIghball has them!
You're welcome!

LOL!  I guess I should have checked Highball's website.  In light of this development, I'll llikely just pick up a set myself.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: MetroRedLine on December 12, 2022, 09:41:35 PM
I just got one of these Dinatte, er, Dinette cars recently, so forgive me for being late to the party.

First impressions: Wow, I actually think they're one of the best RTR passenger cars in N scale. Nice detail, nice rolling quality and THE LIGHTS! No tanning salon effect for the interior lighting and the selectable marker lights are amazing! Now I want this kind of lighting (with the magic wand magnetic switches) on all my Kato Amtrak cars!

However I did notice one major flaw with these that I didn't see anyone catch in this thread...the couplers.

I ran mine behind a string of Kato Amfleet cars. I would get an intermittent short and the Amfleet in front of this car would derail after rounding one of the curves. Turns out the culprit was the magnetic "air hose". I was about to push them up, but the metal sticking out of the top of the coupler indicates that this had already been done, yet the "air hose" has been snagging on a couple of my turnouts.

I decided to size it up with the good ol' MTL Coupler Height Gauge and discovered thus:

[attachimg=1]

The coupler is waaaaaay too low and and only half of the knuckle mates with the Kato Amfleet. The coupler appears to be an MTL 1015 (I've heard it's a clone and not an actual MTL 1015), which screws in, so I'm wondering if a 2004 underslung coupler would work. I tried screwing in a 2004 in a draft gear box (I keep a number handy for Kato locomotive upgrades, you know the deal...) but somehow it won't screw in horizonally flat. So I decided to take the 2004 knuckle assembly and put them in a 1015 box.

After an hour of constant cussing and breaking various coupler parts in the process - and yes I was using the coupler assembly jig - I was able to assemble a pair of 2004s in 1015 boxes. I screwed them in, and they installed perfectly. I matched them up with the Coupler Height Gauge and they were a perfect match!

[attachimg=2]


Next, I coupled the car to my Amfleets and gave it a run around the layout...No turnout snags, no derailments, no shorts, everything ran perfectly!

How the fine folks at Rapido were totally oblivious to using an underslung coupler for these cars simply baffles me. I loved everything about them except for this. Fortunately, I was able to come up with a solution.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Ed Kapuscinski on December 12, 2022, 09:44:11 PM
And that's why removing them is one of the first things I do to any new equipment.
Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: peteski on December 13, 2022, 05:37:18 PM
. . .
However I did notice one major flaw with these that I didn't see anyone catch in this thread...the couplers.

I ran mine behind a string of Kato Amfleet cars. I would get an intermittent short and the Amfleet in front of this car would derail after rounding one of the curves. Turns out the culprit was the magnetic "air hose". I was about to push them up, but the metal sticking out of the top of the coupler indicates that this had already been done, yet the "air hose" has been snagging on a couple of my turnouts.

I decided to size it up with the good ol' MTL Coupler Height Gauge and discovered thus:

The coupler is waaaaaay too low and and only half of the knuckle mates with the Kato Amfleet. The coupler appears to be an MTL 1015 (I've heard it's a clone and not an actual MTL 1015), which screws in, so I'm wondering if a 2004 underslung coupler would work. I tried screwing in a 2004 in a draft gear box (I keep a number handy for Kato locomotive upgrades, you know the deal...) but somehow it won't screw in horizonally flat. So I decided to take the 2004 knuckle assembly and put them in a 1015 box.

After an hour of constant cussing and breaking various coupler parts in the process - and yes I was using the coupler assembly jig - I was able to assemble a pair of 2004s in 1015 boxes. I screwed them in, and they installed perfectly. I matched them up with the Coupler Height Gauge and they were a perfect match!

Next, I coupled the car to my Amfleets and gave it a run around the layout...No turnout snags, no derailments, no shorts, everything ran perfectly!

How the fine folks at Rapido were totally oblivious to using an underslung coupler for these cars simply baffles me. I loved everything about them except for this. Fortunately, I was able to come up with a solution.

I have several Comet and Horizon cars and I see the same issue. However it appears that the car is designed properly and the drooping coupler is caused by poor assembly process.  Some of my cars have couplers at the correct height, others no so much.

As I determined, the problem is caused when the vestibule floor parts are glued to the car's floor.  It appears that due to flash and/or ejection pin marks, the vestibule floor ends up not properly seated on the car floor when it is glued down.  When the shell is installed, the vestibule thresholds (which are too high) get pushed down by the bottom edge of the door, causing the entire end of the car's floor (along with the coupler) to droop.  Sometimes the vestibule floor is even crooked when glued to the car floor.

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045551-26244209.jpeg)

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045551-26245309.jpeg)

(https://www.therailwire.net/forum/gallery/26/2700-271021045553-262461181.jpeg)

I managed to unglue the vestibule floors from couple of cars (they are glued on really well, and it is difficult to get them looks without damaging things), shave off the ejection marks flash and the glue, then cement them while installed properly.  That took care of the coupler height problem.  I agree that it is not really cool for Rapido to have such quality problems.

I actually did that and took the photos back when the cars were released. I was going to post the info here at that time, but with so many projects I work on, I forgot until now.

Title: Re: Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!
Post by: Nick Lorusso on December 25, 2022, 03:15:57 AM
I just picked up a set of 6 in phase 6 to model a Cascade. I have to say great looking cars. Now to go back to the beginning of this thread and start reading.