TheRailwire

General Discussion => DCC / Electronics => Topic started by: peteski on May 03, 2019, 04:44:52 PM

Title: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: peteski on May 03, 2019, 04:44:52 PM
I just received an email with pre-order info.
http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=134&products_id=1276 (http://tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=134&products_id=1276)

[attachimg=1]

Sorry to say that for a brand new design, I'm not impressed at all.

It seems that they aped the NCE throttle design:  Up/down buttons, and thumbwheel.  While I use and like (when compared to  other domestic brands) NCE DCC throttles, I would be lying if I didn't admit that its design is aging.

The TCS throttle's display doesn't impress me either.   Yes, there appear to be 4 soft buttons, but compared to ESU's throttle for example (with its nice large knob, and touch sensitive color screen), the new TCS throttle seems like a dinosaur (and the price seems comparable).  Too bad that TCS is another American DCC manufacturer lagging behind when it comes to current technology.

ESU throttle:
[attachimg=2]

Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: C855B on May 03, 2019, 04:49:36 PM
Is the ESU throttle WiFi?
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: peteski on May 03, 2019, 05:01:16 PM
Is the ESU throttle WiFi?

Hmm, Since it is WiFi and Android-based, I assumed that it was a WiFi throttle compatible with the JMRI standard. But you're right - it seems that it uses proprietary protocol, as JMRI is not mentioned anywhere.   :facepalm:  Interesting.

I might just have to put a foot in my mouth (or at least eat my ESU Power Cab throttle.  :)
But still, I'm not impressed with a new for 2019 piece of electronic equipment coming from an American DCC manufacturer. Actually I'm more impressed with the metamorphosis of the Digitrax's Zephyr system with its new human interface.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: learmoia on May 03, 2019, 05:06:19 PM
Yeah... Cell phones are $50....

So I can get 5 cell phone wifi throttles for the price of 1 TCS wifi throttle.

The people who aren't comfortable with cell phone throttle, wont be too interested in this either.. (vs a regular throttle...)

~Ian
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: C855B on May 03, 2019, 05:38:48 PM
... But you're right - it seems that it uses proprietary protocol, as JMRI is not mentioned anywhere.   :facepalm:  Interesting.

JMRI/WiThrottle protocol is the dominating standard, for better or for worse. The new Digitrax WiFi interface is plug-and-play with WiThrottle and Engine Driver, don't even need JMRI in the loop any more.

In TCS' defense, they're going with a fully tactile interface, and electromechanicals cost more. The ESU and smartphone reliance on touch screen is not my preference (nod to ESU's big dial, tho'). I have seven iPhones as my primary throttles that have cost me nothing since they're family upgrade throw-aways, and I couldn't pre-order the TCS throttle fast enough.

What I'm really after is the TCS Mini-throttle, planned to be similar capability in a smaller package with fewer buttons but a big dial instead of the thumbwheel. However, the "Universal" will certainly be interesting to try for the time being.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: wcfn100 on May 03, 2019, 06:00:49 PM
Is the ESU throttle WiFi?

Yeah, its WiFi.  It's just preloaded with the ESU protocol.  You would need to install WiThrottle or whatever and then could use like any normal wireless setup.

It's just an Android phone with a knob.

Jason
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: reinhardtjh on May 03, 2019, 06:52:49 PM
Yeah, its WiFi.  It's just preloaded with the ESU protocol.  You would need to install WiThrottle or whatever and then could use like any normal wireless setup.

It's just an Android phone with a knob.

Jason

The Android version is Engine Driver.  In some ways it's better than WiThrottle and some ways not.  Just different. But it works on the ESU throttle with JMRI.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: wcfn100 on May 03, 2019, 07:37:17 PM
But it works on the ESU throttle with JMRI.

So it should work with the Digitrax WiFi without JRMI too. 

Jason

Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: jagged ben on May 03, 2019, 11:13:06 PM
For a minute I thought that $50 was the price, not the deposit.    Until I see a wifi throttle that is actually $50 total, I don't think I would consider anything in this category other than the Protothrottle.  I mean, go whole hog or don't bother, I say.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: daniel_leavitt2000 on May 03, 2019, 11:15:00 PM
I think Engine Driver even auto recognizes the ESU throttle and allows use of the thumb wheel and other proprietary hardware.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: reinhardtjh on May 03, 2019, 11:56:24 PM
Does Engine Driver use the knob now? Last I had read (quite a while ago) was ESU hadn't released the API for the custom controls.

Apparently John C. gave a pretty good review and the following discussion indicates the knob does work  Mobile Control II and JMRI Thumbs Up (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=45057.msg582242#msg582242)

This review is probably why I bought one.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: jdcolombo on May 04, 2019, 09:52:19 AM
I've now used two ESU Mobile Control II throttles with my Digitrax/JMRI setup at three different op sessions on my layout, and they have worked extremely well.  One unanticipated issue is that occasionally operators will hit the "Return" button at the bottom of the throttle, which then causes them to exit the Engine Driver app.  But I've had these sorts of things happen with iPhones used as throttles, too, so it's a hazard of touch-operated (or even button-operated) things.  And I've got at least one operator that much prefers using Wi-Throttle on an iPhone 5 because of the way it fits in his hand and the ability to configure the throttle for switching.

I'm probably not going to add one of the TCS throttles, simply because I very much like the Big Knob on the ESU throttle, along with the configurable touch screen.  Might try the "utility" version of the TCS when it becomes available, though.

John C.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: conrad on May 04, 2019, 12:28:57 PM
On the low cost end (cheap) I use a $50 7" Azpen table with Engine Driver on my Digitrax/JMRI layout.  It's great for an old guy with so so eyesight.

Conrad

PS It's a very strange tablet with the camera on the front, the display side, so you can't see what you are photographing:(
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: peteski on May 04, 2019, 05:04:39 PM

PS It's a very strange tablet with the camera on the front, the display side, so you can't see what you are photographing:(

Ah, one of those "selfie-only" tablets.  :D  Good option when one uses Skype video calls.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: CodyO on May 06, 2019, 12:50:59 PM
Yeah TCS and digitrax are both dropping the ball.

The ESU throttle is amazing and it does have 4 configurable buttons on the sides and the touch screen is a nice feature I find I can actually focus on the trains more than the throttle after I setup the 4 buttons for what's best for me.

 If you like running multiple trains simultaneously the ESU throttle is also great cause you can just scroll on the touch screen quickly.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: Onizukachan on May 06, 2019, 06:30:16 PM
I wish withrottle would support using the volume keys in IOS for incremental changes to throttle.
That’s it.
I like having self labeled buttons for cabin lights, etc for locos that may have lighting functions located on different buttons. Especially between sound and non sound installs!

I was excited at $50. At 300... no thanks.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: Jbub on May 06, 2019, 07:28:20 PM
I wish withrottle would support using the volume keys in IOS for incremental changes to throttle.
That’s it.
I like having self labeled buttons for cabin lights, etc for locos that may have lighting functions located on different buttons. Especially between sound and non sound installs!

I was excited at $50. At 300... no thanks.
I thought apple does not allow the volume keys to be used by app developers
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: C855B on May 06, 2019, 09:08:00 PM
I thought apple does not allow the volume keys to be used by app developers

Correctamundo.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: conrad on May 07, 2019, 12:05:54 PM
I wish withrottle would support using the volume keys in IOS for incremental changes to throttle.

For me, the volume/throttle control with the android Engine Driver is a real plus.  Much finer control than the touch screen sliders.

With multi-throttle "consist" of non-speed matched locos I can make the couplers slack/unslack at will.

conrad
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: railnerd on May 07, 2019, 04:48:24 PM
FWIW, The TCS throttle will also support their upcoming command station, and future CAN-bus based LCC.

I'm working on my own hand-held WiThrottle project on the side— if I ever get it done, it may show up on the MRCS site.

-Dave
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: railnerd on May 07, 2019, 04:50:05 PM
Correctamundo.

Yep.  Volume buttons aren't re-mappable (even though they are).  A couple of bad apps ruined that for everyone I guess.
Title: Re: TCS announces a new WiFi throttle: Not impressed.
Post by: TrinityJayOne on May 08, 2019, 08:00:08 PM
Pre-ordered mine. I did scoff at the price at first, but then I trust TCS to make a quality product so jumped in. Besides, it's either this or cough up the upgrade fee (+international shipping) to make my DT402 duplex, and that's still locked to Digitrax radio hardware. Phones are nice but the lack of tactile feedback is a dealbreaker for me.