TheRailwire
General Discussion => Weathering, Detailing, and Scratchbuilding => Topic started by: nkalanaga on April 07, 2019, 12:05:58 AM
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Does anyone know of a common spray paint that will stick to drinking straws? They're the best available N scale pipe, but so far I haven't found any paint that will stick to one.
Acrylics, brushed on, seem to work, IF the paint completely surrounds the straw, and IF it is one of the cheap "rubbery" paints. But that's more like shrink-wrapping than painting.
Glue isn't such a problem. As long as the load stays together a little while, I can get the banding and blocking in place, and then the glue doesn't matter.
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I have yet to find a pain which will adhere well to plastic straws. I used Floquil, and was careful not to handle them much after painting. I suppose that sandblasting them (with an Air Eraser) would improve paint adhesion.
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Thank you. If you haven't found a paint, there probably isn't one. I even tried paints designed for polycarbonate RC cars, and that didn't stick.
Clear ones can be painted on the inside, as well as the outside, so scratches don't show as badly. But most restaurants use colored straws. Olive Garden's black straws look like plastic pipe, and I've found a few small-diameter white ones, apparently intended as combined coffee stirrers/straws, but the others need to be painted.
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Thank you. If you haven't found a paint, there probably isn't one. I even tried paints designed for polycarbonate RC cars, and that didn't stick.
Clear ones can be painted on the inside, as well as the outside, so scratches don't show as badly. But most restaurants use colored straws. Olive Garden's black straws look like plastic pipe, and I've found a few small-diameter white ones, apparently intended as combined coffee stirrers/straws, but the others need to be painted.
You better hoard those straws - they will soon become a rarity (due to environmental concerns).
I found some black coffee stirrer straws somewhere too. They came in a package with half black and half white. IIRC, I found them in my local supermarket (hanging from one of the shelves around the coffee section with the other gadgets they hang form the shelves).
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"they will soon become a rarity"
I've been hording them for many years! There are more stashed here than I could ever use, and I save most of them that I get. I don't know why, I certainly don't NEED them, but they get saved anyway. Maybe it's because I can remember when they were new (at least to me), and something one didn't get everywhere. I don't think they became common until the 1970s, as I recall most places having paper straws when I was little. And I didn't eat out much until I stated working here in Kentucky, in the very late 70s.
We're more worried about plastic grocery bags. When they're gone, what will we put used cat litter in? Actually, they should be able to make both straws and bags from biodegradable plastics. Neither have any reason to last once they're discarded, so if they fell apart, or, better, were eaten by something, it would be a good thing.
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Have no fear! They are coming out with biodegradeable straws made out of plant material. Similar to the material they use for biodegradeable forks and spoons at the National Parks.
I don't remember what store (maybe it wasn't a chain?) that had them. The texture is not as smooth and certainly the walls are thicker but I think paint will adhere to it much easier. They had an off white, "beigey", color and much stiffer. It almost look and felt lilke the old fashion (thick) paper straws.
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Have you tried that (automotive) adhesion promoter?
Ed
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Ed: No, and I wouldn't know how to apply it anyway. Doesn't it need an airbrush?
MK: Sounds like a great idea. "A little thicker" won't hurt anything, as it's probably still thinner than brass or plastic tubing. Paper straws are fine, but if one takes too long to finish the drink, they can get soggy. Waxing them fixes that, but then they don't decompose nearly as fast, not to mention being harder to paint.
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Have you tried that (automotive) adhesion promoter?
Ed
I was thinking the same thing. It comes in a spay can so no airbrush needed. https://www.pepboys.com/dupli-color-adhesion-promoter-clear-11-oz-/product/9380437?quantity=1 (https://www.pepboys.com/dupli-color-adhesion-promoter-clear-11-oz-/product/9380437?quantity=1)
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Why not use paper straws? That should solve the problem.
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I was thinking the same thing. It comes in a spay can so no airbrush needed. https://www.pepboys.com/dupli-color-adhesion-promoter-clear-11-oz-/product/9380437?quantity=1 (https://www.pepboys.com/dupli-color-adhesion-promoter-clear-11-oz-/product/9380437?quantity=1)
Correct. I think it etches the surface, rather than applying an actual paint layer.
I've used it on some of the 'slippery' Kato plastics and it worked well.
Ed
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CR4100 and Ed: Then I'll look into it. Thank you!
Eja: Because I haven't seen a paper straw anywhere I eat in decades. I'm sure they're still made, but I wouldn't know where to look for them.
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Paper straws ... bio degradable, etc.
Of course, available from Amazon .. lifetime supply perchance...
https://www.amazon.com/Hiware-200-Pack-Biodegradable-Paper-Straws/dp/B07D7L5Z85?th=1
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Have you guys tried Krylon spray paints for plastics? Supposedly, they etch the surface to promote bonding to the plastic. Of course, that probably depends on the type of plastic. I have only used it for things like cat doors, and it stands-up well for things like that, even with exposure to the elements.
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Paper straws ... bio degradable, etc.
Of course, available from Amazon .. lifetime supply perchance...
https://www.amazon.com/Hiware-200-Pack-Biodegradable-Paper-Straws/dp/B07D7L5Z85?th=1
Those would need a pretty good primer coat or two... :D
Ed
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"need a pretty good primer coat"
So would most of the plastic ones, so that's not a problem. I think the "pink and gold" ones would be a better choice than the "brightly colored" ones, but either should work. The 6mm would be fine for large N scale pipe, but the 12mm would probably be too large for most purposes. Two of the 10mm wouldn't fit side-by-side on a flatcar, but could be stacked in a gon.
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Paper straws ... bio degradable, etc.
Of course, available from Amazon .. lifetime supply perchance...
https://www.amazon.com/Hiware-200-Pack-Biodegradable-Paper-Straws/dp/B07D7L5Z85?th=1
You'll get a noticeable spiral pattern in those, which might be good for spiral-welded pipe, but not seamless tubing.
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I know it's not free, but have any of you looked at this eBay seller?
I've bought a bit of stuff from him in the ways styrene and it's good stuff.
If you want a specific size of tubing for instance, let him know and he'll sell you what you need. Or at least the last time I bought some from him he offered me custom orders of certain sizes.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/120-STYRENE-ROUND-TUBES-ASSORTMENT-LOT-6-SIZES-ROD-PIPE-1-8-1-4/112425408111?hash=item1a2d13966f:g:y9EAAOSw1x1UQGte (https://www.ebay.com/itm/120-STYRENE-ROUND-TUBES-ASSORTMENT-LOT-6-SIZES-ROD-PIPE-1-8-1-4/112425408111?hash=item1a2d13966f:g:y9EAAOSw1x1UQGte)
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Allen: The problem with styrene, and metal, tubing is that the walls are too thick for most N scale pipe. I have a large assortment of both, but for flatcar loads, the drinking straws look much better.
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The problem with styrene, and metal, tubing is that the walls are too thick for most N scale pipe.
The solution to this problem is to ream out the ends of the styrene tubing with an X-Acto knife. It tapers the sidewalls down to as thin as you want--you can't tell it's a taper or that the middle of the tubing is thick.
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The solution to this problem is to ream out the ends of the styrene tubing with an X-Acto knife. It tapers the sidewalls down to as thin as you want--you can't tell it's a taper or that the middle of the tubing is thick.
What about maybe using some kind of tapered bit? Would that be quicker and/or more consistent results? (Seeing that for pipe loads there would be a lot of ends to dress up.... tho I suppose it would work better with metal tubing rather than plastic)
(https://www.dremel.com/productimages/x125lg.jpg.pagespeed.ic.Mzr1Gluaw3.jpg)
(https://www.rockler.com/media/catalog/product/cache/da8a724b2bd2a1769dc0a5f2489712e9/6/8/68909-01-1000.jpg)
Ed
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What about maybe using some kind of tapered bit? Would that be quicker and/or more consistent results?
Absolutely... assuming I had any back when I made pipes from styrene tubing...
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Great idea.
Also, a lot of new pipe shipped has blank plastic covers on the ends, various colors, blue or orange or red mostly
So could hide the out of scale thickness this way too
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There is also a wide range of stainless steel hypodermic tubing, and thin-wall brass tubing available out there, but their cost is much higher than the cost of straws, and I know that nkalanga likes to stretch his modeling budget as much as he can. :)
However, if someone wants to model pipes in diameters different that straws, the materials are out there.
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However, if someone wants to model pipes in diameters different that straws, the materials are out there.
This. There are other (prototype) pipe sizes, and other modeling alternatives other than straws.
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An experiment to consider:
(http://www.everywherewest.com/pinata.jpg)
Jacquard "Piñata Color" is a line of alcohol-based inks that perform like a lacquer. Very dense pigment content. The straw was brush painted; dry in about two minutes. Actually, what I did was one coat, wait about 15 seconds to mostly dry, then another coat, dry, then once more. It will scratch off if you work at it, but normal handling seemed OK.
Might be worth a try, available from Dick Blick. Be sure to get the cleaning solution, too. 91% IPA will work as a clean-up solvent, but the cleaning solution is faster and more thorough.
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Color might be good (for pipes of that color), but IMO *WAY* too shiny. If hitting it with some Dullcote does not wash the ink away, it might work.
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The color or sheen isn't the issue, it happened to be an color on hand that I didn't otherwise have use for. What's important here is demonstrating a finish system that sticks evenly to plastic straws.
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The color or sheen isn't the issue, it happened to be an color on hand that I didn't otherwise have use for. What's important here is demonstrating a finish system that sticks evenly to plastic straws.
Hmm . . . inks are usually glossy. So are you saying that a satin or flat finish version of those inks is also available, or that they are compatible with Dullcote?
Are the lighter colors (like green) opaque or transparent? Drinking straws often come in various colors (often with contrasting stripes), or even translucent. If I wanted a green-colored pipe, would the green ink cover the original color of the straw?
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Yes, there are alternatives, but straws are cheap and easy to get. Now, if I was modeling a specific load, the alternatives would be worth the cost and effort, but for a generic pipe load, it isn't worth it. Another advantage of straws over metal tubing is weight. A load of straws weighs very little, while metal tubing can make a car top heavy.
Steve: I have a load of "well casing" modeled just that way. The prototype appeared to have plastic caps, rather than just plastic sheet, so I used styrene rod, then dipped the ends in red craft paint. It came out looking quite good, which was a little surprising, as the dipping was basically an experiment.
Peteski: That's one of the big problems with straws. The clear, white, or black ones aren't bad, but the other colors, and especially the striped ones, have to be painted! The clear ones also need paint, but they can be painted on the inside, where it won't scratch off.
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Great idea.
Also, a lot of new pipe shipped has blank plastic covers on the ends, various colors, blue or orange or red mostly
So could hide the out of scale thickness this way too
But if the ends are covered, how’s A-No.-1 supposed to hide in the pipe?
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End covers were rare in the mid-1970s, so that won't help me much. I don't know if well casing had caps then or not, but much of it has pre-threaded ends, so some type of protection would be warranted.
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But if the ends are covered, how’s A-No.-1 supposed to hide in the pipe?
?...or No.2’s 😊
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Steve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Ray_Livingston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Ray_Livingston)
"Leon Ray Livingston (1872–1944) was a famous hobo and author, travelling under the name "A-No.1" and often referred to as "The Rambler."[1]"
No, I'd never heard of him either, until I Googled "A-No.-1"
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Steve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Ray_Livingston (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Ray_Livingston)
"Leon Ray Livingston (1872–1944) was a famous hobo and author, travelling under the name "A-No.1" and often referred to as "The Rambler."[1]"
No, I'd never heard of him either, until I Googled "A-No.-1"
Thanks. You learn something new everyday on TRW.
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True, and true for model railroading in general. I've learned more about more things from model and prototype railroad magazines than from almost any other source. Amazing how much non-railroad industrial, geographic, geologic, and historic material one comes across reading about trains. Not to mention various skills, both old and new.