TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: wmcbride on January 25, 2017, 03:14:09 PM
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Frog drop (and freight car wiggle) got me to the point of building my own turnouts -- sorry Atlas code 55. It's rewarding but a bit tedious.
I want to add a yard and thought I would give ME #6 turnouts a try. They snap in place (yay!) and would be good enough in terms of rail drop - I hoped. I ordered two of the "newer" DCC-compatable turnouts as well as some ME rail joiners.
Now I remembered why I had so many Atlas code 55 rail joiners in my bin: because I can actually get them on the rails as opposed to the ME which were crimped flat. Ugh. Must have been a bad day at the factory.
Unfortunately, the "snap action" designed to hold the rails in place don't work on either turnout. It may be time to get out the soldering gun and build some turnouts or add a throw control to the ME turnouts.
This made me feel like today is a Monday, except ... it isn't. :D
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I believe the ME rail joiners are actually made by the National Adhesive Bandage Marketing Consortium. I am sure one or another of the RW engineering experts has developed a tool to install them, but like you, I gave up a long time ago and just use Atlas joiners.
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Funny you bring this up. I was having fits with ME C55 Joiners just last night. I found a technique to make them SOOO much easier to work with!!
(http://i.imgur.com/KLtlHf3.jpg)
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Tried that technique some while back - I think you are much better at it than I am, or at least getting better results. Mine either still did not work, or I went too far and they were loose.
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Funny you bring this up. I was having fits with ME C55 Joiners just last night. I found a technique to make them SOOO much easier to work with!!
(http://i.imgur.com/KLtlHf3.jpg)
Mark,
You forgot the photo of your bleeding finger(s)...
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Just buy Atlas joiners.
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That knife blade looks brand new (pointy and sharp)! :D
I wonder if a spreading tool could be made from a piece of MT track filed down to an edge and mounted in a dowel?
Then to hold the joiner take another dowel and drill a hole deep enough for the joiner to go in about 2/3 of the way in..
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That knife blade looks brand new (pointy and sharp)! :D
I wonder if a spreading tool could be made from a piece of MT track filed down to an edge and mounted in a dowel?
Then to hold the joiner take another dowel and drill a hole deep enough for the joiner to go in about 2/3 of the way in..
Used a similar home made tool to add the joiners to the rail many years ago. Saved many a sore finger and got the job done very quickly.
Rod.
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I just use a small jewelers screwdriver to slightly spread the ends. I also use a flat file to remove burrs and make a small chamfer on the base of the rail.
Ed
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A ground-down C55 rail is great for fixing this. And cheap. Insert the pointed rail tip into the end of the joiner enough to hold it, and stick the other end of the joiner into a piece of Homasote or the end of a piece of finished lumber (where the wood is rough and softer). Use small pliers to push the rail slowly onto the joiner while holding the homasote/wood piece. I just leave the altered joiner on the rail and do a bunch more joiners the same way, lining them up on the rail so they don't get lost. Once you get the hang of it you can do a lot of joiners quickly -- w/o punching holes in your fingers.
Don't understand why your ME turnouts don't snap-switch the points. Maybe e-mail ME and tell them about the problem. I've got 20+ YO ME C55s that still snap well. Don't use a lot of force when throwing the points by fingerpower. But I've found they're good reliable switches even tho I now use DCC and don't have powered frogs.
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There is that new Atlas 3 sided joiner puter on tool.
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A ground-down C55 rail is great for fixing this. And cheap. Insert the pointed rail tip into the end of the joiner enough to hold it, and stick the other end of the joiner into a piece of Homasote or the end of a piece of finished lumber (where the wood is rough and softer). Use small pliers to push the rail slowly onto the joiner while holding the homasote/wood piece. I just leave the altered joiner on the rail and do a bunch more joiners the same way, lining them up on the rail so they don't get lost. Once you get the hang of it you can do a lot of joiners quickly -- w/o punching holes in your fingers.
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This is good advice. Also, just filing and deburring the rails you are actually joining.
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I also use a chunk of the code 55 filed down. I narrow and thin the base of the rail for about an 1/8" from the end and then push the joiner on, but only enough to open up the end of the joiner, and then repeat for the other end. This lets the joiner slip onto the end the track relatively easily, but tightens up on the rail as the joiner is moved fully into place. I like the way the ME joiners hold the rail tightly, especially when trying to lay curved track without kinks at the joints.
I still need some sort of joiner holder tool because the above does not do much to save the finger tips, but it does a lot to reduce the "why can't I get the $&@?ing joiner onto the rail" frustration.
Geoff
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Doesn't have to be a hobby blade. Try a metal ruler or a track gauge. Any metal strip about .015-.02" should do.
(http://i.imgur.com/VWL6nmM.jpg)
I challenge anyone who does the filed rail technique to try this method a few times.
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Ed: That was my technique as well. Then, after getting the joiner on the first rail, I could use the same screwdriver to move it if it need to be centered, or offset, to fit better.
Jagged Ben: Oh yes, I always deburred my rail ends. Not only did it make installing the joiner easier, but rough ends also can result in rough joints, if the burrs make one rail taller than the other.
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I use ME C55 and C40 flex and I've used ME #6 turnouts too, so when I'm looking at this thread with ALL the advice as to how to get rail joiners on, I'm thinking to myself "Did you ever have problems getting ME rail joiners on ME rail???"
The answer to that question is "No".
First, I didn't ever like the looks of them big 'ol rail joiners ugly-ing up my precision track work, so, I started cutting the rail joiners into much smaller versions that fit between the ties, cutting the plastic between-the-tie-spacers away from at least three ties on either side of the joint then sliding those ties back out of the way of the solder joint. The ends of the rails get dressed with a file so they aren't rough, and the corners of the rail foot are filed at an angle (roughly a 45 deg. angle)...just a bit of it, not clear to the rail web...and the joiners slide on pretty easily. I then bring my second piece of flex to the party, using my Dremel and a fine sanding disk to get the rails just the right length, and after dressing the rail ends just like the other piece's, I slide the shortened rail joiners onto the second piece of flex, centering the joint in the middle of the joiner. I solder it after fluxing with Superior Super Safe #30 gel flux using a tin/silver coreless solder, and a few seconds after it's cooled, slide the ties back into their correct position on either side of the joint.
I don't want my rail joiners loose and flopping around since they are there for me for a structural purpose, not for conducting electricity because I put a feeder on every piece of rail, and they serve this structural function very well after I solder them. ME flex, since it's stiff, doesn't need a lot of structural assistance to stay in place anyway, but a bit of reinforcement with my little rail joiners has worked very well on my portable, sectional layout.
Additionally, since I'm not sliding ties UNDER the joiners, all the ties are the same height, and have their cast-on spikehead/tieplate details intact, just like the rest of the ties on the layout, and the joints virtually disappear...especially after painting, ballasting and weathering.
If I were to use full-length rail joiners, I would welcome their tight fit and consider that to be essential. When working on modules and layouts other than my own, to get ME railjoiners started on ME rail, I first cut one (1) of the little "tongues" off one end of the joiners so they are a bit shorter using a sharp flush-cutter...I'll cut the other tongue off later... then dress the ends of the cut rails with a fine jeweler's file and completely de-burr them. I also make sure I file the small angles on the corners of the rail feet on either pieces of flex I'm joining. This allows me to get the joiners more easily started (the most important part) and easily slid on to the rails.
After puncturing myself once and bleeding all over my unfinished scenery, I LEARNED from this experience and started using one of the corners on my miniature, precision flat-nose pliers to hold the joiner which I've cut ONE little tongue of off on the end where I've left one tongue on, mounting it on the rail with the end where I'd cut the tongue off of. To be perfectly clear, I hold the joiner with the corner of my precision flat-nose pliers on the end I have NOT CUT THE TONGUE OFF OF, sliding the end with the tongue cut off from onto the rail FIRST.
After mounting the joiner on the rail and sliding it on, I cut the remaining little tongue off of the mounted joiner, and slide the other piece of flex (the rails of which I've dressed and filed just like the piece I've mounted the two joiners to) on to the two mounted joiners, then using miniature, long-nosed pliers, I position the mounted joiners where I want them on the rail feet.
This is pretty simple, and it takes a lot less time to do this than to write about it. These joiners won't be flopping around on the rails, and they fulfill one of their intended purposes by accurately aligning the rail ends at the joint, and using my precision flat-nose pliers to mount them, my thumbs and fingers remain unwounded.
However, to repeat myself, on my own layout, I don't use full-length rail joiners, but the ones I cut to fit the space between ties.
I think the full-length ones are overkill, look ugly as sin and necessitate equally ugly, modified ties under them.
Photo (1) - Here's a pic of my cut-down rail joiners mounted to painted, unballasted track:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JlGFChOBwuaJRCSKK1BsTGWkqgJo9xYGgXolLBotleOerMsbHPWzVCoNSapLkNEHLceqb3X-EEKyV5rK65-2zoweibz4PZFetIkacc6XUpM55IeD-jgnAA5wW0e4-oTrf-hzIvFPyXfxIiTedWEk8CZ-lO14kt03VPqud-ccGvLQECRheUaGcU1QK18dgzVr6DJukbuvXL837eZtAn_eJbL-sLTt7TnbjH33shsRvKRZRh5iOPZ1NUzBweNwtmNgC5I_IAVSBGdqyXRwyI47b3S0z95AbyuC9NlvrAYOlIjLSvNGhH6CpypihZefMV1aTsrxLx7DrQk9S74Bo04iuuiG3KHKlzQpYO_-Pc6U1lvaTifiulyTzwMUt1GSi5e54QmxkCN6utlC39xTYf32a8-6Zcb_42TmBO2b4MySyKKEQio0fM9rtp89S5DvmQ8h43aODiNdKb9X4nWMB8fsNl-ewGQP8VFH1LEeuAJHqHBSgwA-k0T_bNw_Jvx6ZgDpmYqeVLcVIQw80AUNx6ldcxUf1MHEHGb7_V0EAWdx6AyLfVo8-NoWj4Hr0HeYUveMnGvWt1FenWb203Tv1lnAUM-D1uonT9RfGK4dqrWiJhkBOHQwUD-D=w1810-h1018-no?jpg)
Edit: I always forget to tell how I cut the joiners. I mount them on a scrap piece of rail, and cut BOTH the joiner and rail at the same time. This prevents the joiner from squashing. I then slide the cut joiner back on to the rail a bit, which bends any burrs on the joiner to the outside of the cut end where I can easily file them off. I can get two small joiners out of one full-sized joiner for sure, and sometimes three.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Bob,
Great info, thanks!
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I LEARNED from this experience and started using one of the corners on my miniature, precision flat-nose pliers to hold the joiner
@robert3985, exactly which kind of pliers? Do you have a link?
(I am always interested in good tools :ashat:)
Thanks,
Ed
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Something you might wanted to take a look at http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Atlas-401-All-Scales-Rail-Joiner-Sidekick-p/atl-401.htm 8)
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Something you might wanted to take a look at http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Atlas-401-All-Scales-Rail-Joiner-Sidekick-p/atl-401.htm 8)
Looks like a thong! :trollface:
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@robert3985, exactly which kind of pliers? Do you have a link?
(I am always interested in good tools :ashat:)
Thanks,
Ed
Ed @ednadolski , here's the link for my flat-nose pliers: https://www.craftsman.com/products/craftsman-professional-5-in-flat-nose-pliers?taxon_id=1840
Here's the link for my needle-nose pliers: https://www.craftsman.com/products/craftsman-professional-5-1-2-in-needle-nose-pliers?taxon_id=1840
The box joint is part of what makes 'em "precision"....
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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I, like Bob, have used ME track and joiners since back in the "Railcraft" days. I've always used the ME joiners.
Once I have the track ready for the joiners, I use a small triangle file
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/bLxOHt.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmbLxOHtj)
and file the end of the rails. In the photo, you can see on the right side of the left rail how I have filed the bottom flange. Now do that to the other side of the rail.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/922/5cf3Xl.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pm5cf3Xlj)
I then use the end grain of a piece of wood (in this case, benchwork of the layout) and push the joiner on. Then if I have trouble getting the next piece of track to go into the joiner, I just pull it off and turn it 180 degrees.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/921/0WXwGQ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pl0WXwGQj)
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Shouldn't they just fit w/o all of the filing and tools?
I mean, really. They should just slide on with a little effort to fit snugly, but slide on nonetheless.
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Shouldn't they just fit w/o all of the filing and tools?
I mean, really. They should just slide on with a little effort to fit snugly, but slide on nonetheless.
Not really. As the rail is cut, it does leaves burrs and that is what causes the joiners not to easily slide on. Even as the track is produced, the machine leaves burrs.
I've done the file method since I started back in '67 in HO.
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If you're using their weathered track I find you've got to file the weathering down to clean nickel silver to get a good soldered joint, so a few extra passes with the file to help with the joiners isn't a problem.
Geoff
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Rodney: That's exactly how I file mine, and again, I've been doing it since the 70s. Even the early Atlas code 80 flextrack needed filing more often than not, if one wanted the joiners to fit right, and the joint to be smooth.
And, as Geoff says, if you use pre-weathered track, it has to be filed or scraped before soldering anyway, whether you use standard joiners or not.
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Just buy Atlas joiners.
...and when you do, do NOT mix them up in the same box with ME joiners.