TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: ljudice on June 15, 2016, 12:07:18 AM
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Recommendations on feeder wires to solder on to Peco Code 55 - DCC operation????
Also, tin the wire or rail or both? And what about flux?
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I use flux on the rail, then tin the rail. Next I dip the end of my 22 gauge wire (the part that I want to solder onto the rail) in the flux.
I then place the wire on the rail followed by the soldering iron, for a second or so. Last let it cool for a few seconds with out moving the wire or rail.
I've done that for over 40 years with Peco track and I've never had a problem with a feeder coming off later. --Brian
PS: My wire is already tinned and I have a 35 watt soldering iron.
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I second the comment that Brian made.
I flux both, tin both, then a quick touch with the iron makes it all good.
One important thing to keep in mind,,, ALWAYS keep the iron clean,, dirty tip will NOT transfer heat quickly.
I use a liquid water soluble flux. I use it for my track work and electronics.
https://www.hnflux.com/page2.html (https://www.hnflux.com/page2.html)
See ya,
Y-It
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Good point about a clean tip, I use a small wet sponge.
You just need to wipe both sides of the hot tip on the sponge to clean it. --Brian
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Thanks very much!!!!
- Lou
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How long will the feeders be? 6" or 12" or longer? If they are the former length then 22 AWG is WAY overkill. Heavy gauge feeders are harder to work with, and really unnecessary. I just recently started composing a thread on voltage drops of various gauge feeders under load - I'll post it someday (maybe next week).
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Generally around 12-18 inches...
- Lou
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Related questions...
- Do you bend the end of the feeder to form an "L" to make a larger surface or solder the end right to the rail?
- Ideas on holding the feeder in place while soldering....
Thanks again....
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Yes, I bend it to form an "L". And I think someone already said, after cleaning the soldering iron tip you should wet it with just a touch of fresh solder.
That touch of new solder wants to make contact with the wire your soldering.
Being liquid it will transfer the heat from your irons tip into the wire / rail at a quicker rate verses a dry tip. --Brian
PS: Try not to breath the fumes given off from the flux, they may not be healthy over the long run IMHO?
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I also put a alligator clip on each side of the area I'm soldering as a heat sink. No more melted ties that way.
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Once again thanks!!! I changed wire, added flux and now my joints are super neat and very strong....
- Lou
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With Peco's double-base design, one could drill a hole between the two bases, stick the end of the wire in the hole, and then solder it. Definitely overkill, but it shouldn't ever come loose. Might be an idea for a hard-to-reach area.
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I am using 22 AWG feeder wires and my feeder runs are typically under six inches; I don't have any issues working with this size of wire. It seems to be just right for this application. I use the same method described by Brian; cleaning the rail and applying solder to it before attaching the feeder is an important step. One additional step I take is to lightly file the base of the rail before applying the flux and the solder. This is just another small step to ensure a nice clean surface to adhere to. I have had no issues with conductivity or with feeders coming loose.
Tim
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I'm finding 22 AWG to be just right in terms of handling and appearance....
One point mentioned I notice is REALLY cleaning the rail with Alcohol drastically improves this process.
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I used ATLAS code 83 terminal joiners when I rebuilt my N scale layout. They are a nice snug fit on the bottom web of the PECO code 55 track.
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I second the comment that Brian made.
I flux both, tin both, then a quick touch with the iron makes it all good.
One important thing to keep in mind,,, ALWAYS keep the iron clean,, dirty tip will NOT transfer heat quickly.
I use a liquid water soluble flux. I use it for my track work and electronics.
https://www.hnflux.com/page2.html (https://www.hnflux.com/page2.html)
See ya,
Y-It
+1
To be more specific, Superior #30 Supersafe Flux is the BEST flux I have found (after trying many others) for model work. Using it will make you an expert solderer as long as you use the right heat, and both clean & buff the metal you're soldering.
On my layout, which I re-wired to DCC standards, I neither cleaned nor buffed the underside of my rails on track that was already laid, painted & ballasted, and with my resistance solderer tweezers, bent and tinned feeder tips and Supersafe #30 gel flux, I haven't had a single feeder (out of literally hundreds) fail in seven years. Additionally, I did not rinse the solder joints, and I also haven't had any acid problems whatsoever either.
Superior #30 Supersafe Flux....HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Superior #30 Supersafe Flux....HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!
Bob, after seeing your repeated high-praises of this stuff, couple of years ago I bought a bottle (in gel form). I used it maybe half a dozen times and the still-full bottle of the now-liqud gel is still sitting on my workbench collecting dust.
Oh, there was nothing wrong with it - it worked just fine. The problem was the cleanup. I'm used to using rosin-based fluxes, and I use alcohol or sometimes even acetone for cleanup. But your flux needs water-cleanup. While that is environmenty safe, etc., etc., to me water was too wet, too messy, and I had to wait too long for the water to evaporate. Alcohol is much quicker. So, I went back to my old fluxes. But I'm also still using those (now considered nasty and dangerous) organic solvent based paints. Call me old-school... :)
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Bob, after seeing your repeated high-praises of this stuff, couple of years ago I bought a bottle (in gel form). I used it maybe half a dozen times and the still-full bottle of the now-liqud gel is still sitting on my workbench collecting dust.
Oh, there was nothing wrong with it - it worked just fine. The problem was the cleanup. I'm used to using rosin-based fluxes, and I use alcohol or sometimes even acetone for cleanup. But your flux needs water-cleanup. While that is environmenty safe, etc., etc., to me water was too wet, too messy, and I had to wait too long for the water to evaporate. Alcohol is much quicker. So, I went back to my old fluxes. But I'm also still using those (now considered nasty and dangerous) organic solvent based paints. Call me old-school... :)
Peter,
I bought my first Supersafe Flux over 30 years ago when I was just beginning to learn how to build my own turnouts, so I guess it's also "old school". I'd used all that other stuff, including several rosin-based fluxes, and found that "Plumber's Honey" worked GREAT! However after rinsing and scrubbing my soldered up turnouts in hot water, and installing them on my Ntrak modules, after about six months, they started self-destructing, even the ballast around them was being eaten up! I figure that the highly acid plumber's stuff soaked into the PCB ties and simple rinsing was never going to get it out.
At one of the many shows I attended about the same time as my turnouts were turning to white powder, I saw a fellow making N-scale catenary, so I struck up a conversation with him about my flux problems. He immediately showed me what he used, and sold me a bottle of Superior Supersafe #30 Gel Flux, with a couple of applicators. He said that he never rinsed his solder joints, so...I cut out all of my disintegrating C70 and C55 turnouts on my two 6' Ntrak modules and reconstructed them in-place. I didn't rinse them either, and in the next 12 years, I did not have any solder joint degeneration problems with them whatsoever.
The reason I recommend the stuff so highly is that for my brass to brass, brass to NS, copper to copper, brass to copper, NS to copper solder joints....the stuff makes it nearly 100% that I'm gonna get an excellent solder joint, which I know won't corrode...even without rinsing.
On my brass scratchbuidling projects, the reason I wash them is to remove any oils, in preparation for the next round of soldering, or to get ready for paint...NOT to neutralize my Supersafe solder joints....which self-neutralize through the heating process, but the washing/rinsing also gets rid of any flux residue that may be present.
However, on electronic projects, I use rosin-core fine lead solder...because it works, and because I don't want any tin-whiskers forming and shorting things.
But, for turnouts, brass/NS/copper scratchbuilding and feeder to rail applications, Supersafe is what I use and recommend...for several decades now.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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Bob,
I have never used any acidic fluxes on any of my electric or electronic projects, so I never got burned on the residue becoming conductive or corrosive. But I do use Tix flux (acidic zinc chloride) when on some of my metal model kits which are not electrified when something more potent than resin flux is needed. There is nothing wrong with the Supersafe flux - it is just not for me. I did try it and I still have it if I decide to give it another go.
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And everybody is soldering wire to the underside of the rail, right? A fine-tip soldering iron used quickly will get the job done w/o melting ties. I just scrape/sand the rail bottom and solder on the wire. You're supposed to rinse off the soldered joint afterward? Jeez, I never knew that. But no soldered joints or splices have ever deteriorated on any of my layouts going back decades.
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Jeez, I never knew that. But no soldered joints or splices have ever deteriorated on any of my layouts going back decades.
Maybe you don't need to. What type of flux are you using (or what flux core is in the solder you're using)? Rosin or acid? The 2 posts above yours explain things.
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Have no idea what kind of flux I have, it's in little tube that was with my dad's soldering iron when I got it. Most of the lettering has been worn off (it's at least 30 years old). Came in a canister of rosin-core solder that's long gone. Also have a can of Nokorode, but I never use it. One thing about N scale: you can buy a spool of solder and a little tube of flux and it lasts forever because each application uses so little material. :)